Lalley: E-cigarettes light up the live chat with enthusiastic quitters

[Orb Skewer]

http://www.argusleader.com/article/20131127/COLUMNISTS0111/311270018/1001/news?nclick_check=1


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I think the host Patrick Lalley is to be lauded for this, he seems to have held a good balance in this debate, and seemed fairly knowledgable of the wider implications.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Megan Myers is a well trained lobbyist, she managed to hit every ANTZ talking point before the half way point. I don't think she opened her mouth without spouting one. Children, flavors, cancer causing chemicals, need research by disinterested parties, she used the 2009 study several times without being specific. Oh yeah, antifreeze, she managed to get PG in as antifreeze without explaining that it is the safe one.

If I hadn't spent 2+ years on ECF she would have had me wondering what I'm going to die from using e-cigs.

Rant Over.

 

[Orb Skewer]

Megan Myers is a well trained lobbyist, she managed to hit every ANTZ talking point before the half way point. I don't think she opened her mouth without spouting one. Children, flavors, cancer causing chemicals, need research by disinterested parties, she used the 2009 study several times without being specific. Oh yeah, antifreeze, she managed to get PG in as antifreeze without explaining that it is the safe one.

If I hadn't spent 2+ years on ECF she would have had me wondering what I'm going to die from using e-cigs.

Rant Over.

She did look 'decidedly' out of her depth though, we need more guys like Patrick who will press these 'health fanatics' on a public platform,


"A broken record" I would agree with her there

 

[Spazmelda]

I participated in the chat, and the host did a very good job IMO. He was good about getting to the questions and statements in the chat, and he did okay with asking for more details.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Vocalek]

I sent an email to Megan after the show. She did not respond.

The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association CASAA fully supports a ban on sales to minors. Every vendor I have ever met checks ID and refuses to sell to minors. Since half the states have already enacted such bans, perhaps kids are getting e-cigarettes the same way they get real cigarettes.

But at any rate, please stop claiming that exposure to e-cigarettes are turning kids turn into smokers. Youth smoking rates and initiation of smoking are at an all-time low. Here are the facts. Feel free to check them yourself. Links are provided.

Note: This looked much more impressive in Outlook, formatted as a table. Darn primitive forum formatting.

Compare Trends in Youth E-Cigarette Use and Smoking Rates

Level/Age Type of Use
2011
2012
Delta

Jr. High Recent Use E-cigarette*
0.6
1.1
+0.5

Jr. High Recent Smoking*
4.3
3.5
-1.0

Sr. High Recent Use E-cigarette*
1.5
2.8
+1.3

Sr. High Recent Smoking)*
15.8
14.0
-1.8

Males Age 12-17 Recent Smoking**
8.2
6.8
-1.4

Females Age 12-17 Recent Smoking**
7.3
6.3
-1.0

Males Age 12-17 Smoking Initiation***
5.4
4.7
-0.7

Females Age 12-17 Smoking Initiation***
5.5
4.8
-0.7

Data Sources:

* CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, tobacco Product Use Among Middle and High School Students — United States, 2011 and 2012, November 15, 2013 / 62(45);893-897. Tobacco Product Use Among Middle and High School Students — United States, 2011 and 2012

** Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Results from the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health: Summary of National Findings and Detailed Tables, Figure 4.2 Past Month tobacco Use among Youths Aged 12 to 17: 2002-2012. Results from the 2012 NSDUH: Summary of National Findings, SAMHSA, CBHSQ

*** Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Results from the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health: Summary of National Findings and Detailed Tables, Figure 5.8 Past Year Cigarette Initiation among Youths Aged 12 to 17 Who Had Never Smoked Prior to the Past Year, by Gender: 2002-2012. Results from the 2012 NSDUH: Summary of National Findings, SAMHSA, CBHSQ


Also, please stop claiming that e-cigarettes contain carcinogens unless you are willing to tell the rest of the story. The highest quantity of tobacco-specific Nitrosamines (TSNAs) reported in e-cigarette liquid has been 8.18 nanograms in a gram of liquid containing 16 mg. of nicotine. This is roughly equivalent to the TSNAs in an FDA approved nicotine patch, and each piece of 4 mg nicotine gum contains 2 ng of TSNAs. Thus, e-cigarettes are no more likely to cause cancer than continuing to chew nicotine gum for years after quitting smoking. You also need to compare the risk of cancer from e-cigarettes with the risk of cancer from smoking!

Source: See Table 2.2 on page 7 of this report. http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

If you think Dr. Laugesen fudged the results, feel free to contact the FDA's Dr. Westenberger and ask him to tell you the quantity of TSNAs he measured in the 2009 tests.

 

[dragonbone]

Just a pity (and a big fail) when he said that VG (glycerine) is VEGETABLE OIL!

 

[Vocalek]

Just a pity (and a big fail) when he said that VG (glycerine) is VEGETABLE OIL!

Yes, that's one of those common beliefs that don't match reality. Glycerine feels slippery, so it's easy for non-chemists to think it must be an oil. I never gave it much thought until I started studying e-cigarettes. I was surprised to learn that glycerin is more closely related to an alcohol than an oil. Glycerol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even many writers about beauty products incorrectly refer to glycerin as an oil. [http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Glycerin] Our skin is moisturized by natural oils that our body produces. Glycerin is used in products that moisturize the skin as well; but that is because glycerin attracts and holds water, while oil just forms a barrier that keeps water from evaporating off the skin. [I'm sure the chemists in the audience will correct this if I have explained it incorrectly.]

A related myth is that e-cigarettes are easily adapted to deliver illicit drugs. The main illicit drug they reference is in an oil base. Thus trying to use a commercially available e-cigarette would not work. Oils require higher temperatures to vaporize. The residue would quicly clog up an e-cig atomizer.

The devices sold in "head shops" might look like an e-cigarette at first glance, but they are designed to work with those oils. The analogy that I drew in one of my Anti-THR blog posts is that both my TV remote control and my camera operate using lithium batteries. Yet I would not be able to easily adapt my remote control to take photographs. I might be able to use the batteries interchangeably, but the technology beyond that is significantly different.

 

[Orb Skewer]

Great comments in there, maybe Patrick will do a follow up to this who knows

I dont have facebook-if I had I'd have left a link to at least one forum, as a calling card,,,,,,,,hint, hint

 

[AgentAnia]

Yes, that's one of those common beliefs that don't match reality. Glycerine feels slippery, so it's easy for non-chemists to think it must be an oil. I never gave it much thought until I started studying e-cigarettes. I was surprised to learn that glycerin is more closely related to an alcohol than an oil. Glycerol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even many writers about beauty products incorrectly refer to glycerin as an oil. []Error Our skin is moisturized by natural oils that our body produces. Glycerin is used in products that moisturize the skin as well; but that is because glycerin attracts and holds water, while oil just forms a barrier that keeps water from evaporating off the skin. [I'm sure the chemists in the audience will correct this if I have explained it incorrectly.]

Here's my theory: Glycerin *feels* oily. The term "vegetable glycerin" contains the word vegetable. So I can see how the uninformed, incurious might confuse the two.

My response to anyone who says ecigs contain the oil "vegetable glycerin," I say Cook yourself up some fries in vegetable glycerin and see how they turn out.

 

[rothenbj]

Here's my theory. The fellow has been a smoker and now is a vapor. He may have caused some health issues already however he appears quite healthy. The gal, who appears to be about the same age is a never smoker. However, she appears to be more inclined to enjoy eating a bit too much. What health effects does her life style have on her?

 

[dragonbone]

Here's my theory. The fellow has been a smoker and now is a vapor. He may have caused some health issues already however he appears quite healthy. The gal, who appears to be about the same age is a never smoker. However, she appears to be more inclined to enjoy eating a bit too much. What health effects does her life style have on her?

Exactly! That was the first thing that sprung to mind when I saw her. She is carrying a huge amount of very dangerous fat around her torso area, (i.e.. organs coated in a thick layer of fat).

 

[2coils]

I couldn't stomach watching the whole video. This guy John stunk as someone representing vapers. He used the word JUICE way too much. He agreed to being a guinea pig. Of course we have the vegetable oil thing. And at least in the first 15 min as Megan Meyers was calling the industry the wild west, and how we don't know whats in e-cigs,, John didn't seem informed enough to at least counter this mess. I know I am being way too hard on this guy, as most don't know what we know. Though if I were a reporter and vaper, going on a show about e-cigs, I would have done some research first! I will try to get through this thing eventually (after my temper cools), and hopefully my opinion will change!!