Lavatube....good bad or ugly

[wv2win]

Well, most people who recommend the Twist fail to mention that they are disposable, which to me would be more important than the 2.5amp limit on the Lavatube. The Twist will definitely fail at some point. The amp limit on the VTube will not necessarily ever limit someone unless they choose to use dual coil low resistance cartos.

And, still, nobody has explained WHY I should be using dual coil low resistance cartos or WHAT they will do for me that my current setup isn't doing. Maybe it's because there are so many other choices that work fine that never push the 2.5amp limit.

My 4Runner won't go 150mph and a Porsche 911 Turbo will. I suppose my 4Runner is limiting me, at least theoretically, but not as a practical matter.



Well, the Twist is disposable, so why should planned obsolescense be an argument against the lavatube and not the Twist? And just because a new version of the Lavatube comes out doesn't mean that mine automatically quits working. Back to the 4Runner analogy, there's a new model 4Runner out, but my old one works just fine.

First and foremost, I never recommended the twist. Regardless of the twist limitations, that does not negate the lavatubes limitations or the fact that the fanboys never tell the new person that the 2.5 amp limit will not allow the use of dual coil cartomizers and atomizers. And I never stated that dual coils was everyone's cup of tea. Although there are thousands who use them and prefer them. But this newbie could easily read posts about DCC's, want to try them, buy them and then realize they won't work with the lavatube and thus, wasted money because the fanboys never told them about this limitation. Not very helpful in my book.

My point stands, that there are plenty of alternatives that do not limit what can be used on them. And since lavatube supposidly is now coming out with a 4 amp limit model, my point that the makers build "planned obselescence" into the the product, is accurate. That's just BS marketing to get more hard earned money from people. There are plenty of PV's on the market as good or better than the lavatube that don't operate that way. The eGo makers do the same thing. There is no reason to put a 2.5 amp limit on a PV when for a couple of cents it can be built with a 4 amp limit, other than to try and get more money out of people.

 

[mad776]

I had a lavatube and switch it up quickly to a provari and i am delighted since (but this is just that i had a chance someone sold it cheap).
Actually, lavatube isn't that bad, i just didn't support his height. It is huge, Vmax too.

 

[mostapha]

lavatubes limitations…will not allow the use of dual coil cartomizers and atomizers

Just out of curiosity, do people complain about the Darwin also not working well with DCCs the same way? Again, no experience, but the reviews I've seen show some weird issues with it…namely that the power is distributed between 2 coils instead of 1, meaning it never reaches the right temperature and you're essentially limited to half the power that you have set……just twice as much surface area.

DCCs should work faster (owing to increased surface area of the heating elements) but it takes twice the power to achieve the same temperature.

my point that the makers build "planned obselescence" into the the product, is accurate. That's just BS marketing to get more hard earned money from people.

Agreed…to a degree. I think you've proven the first point. But you also have to realize that all of this stuff is cheap. I'd be annoyed if I found those types of practices in something the price of a Provari, Darwin, GG, Empire, etc.. The LTs' prices are pushing it for what I'd be happy with. But if a replacement for the $20 twist comes out in 2 months……who cares? I like this one. If one came out tomorrow with a 4A limit that goes up to 6V, I'd just order one.

I looked at the numbers and compared to what I was spending on cigarettes (1 PAD of Lucky Stirkes at $~64/carton, not including cleaning supplies, insurance penalties, or future health costs) I could start a brand-new Carto every day, vape ~3ml/day of good juice, buy a new Provari with new batteries every 2 months……and still come out on top. Buying a new twist and a new clearo every week would be another option. I think the average twist dying within a week would be a serious fluke and probably something the retailer would take care of……especially with that kind of a purchase history.

Depending on where you live and what you smoked, all of this stuff is insanely cheap. Everything that's readily produced may as well be disposable and longevity only really comes into play with custom stuff or stuff that is only built occasionally or in small batches. Or if you just like something that isn't made anymore. And things like the GG, Empire, Kick……the discontinued mechanical mods some people love……custom pipes……etc.. Those things kind of just don't have features. Independent of the Kick, they're all single-voltage, unprotected devices, right?

The only reason we're not complaining about planned obsolescence of them is because they have no features other than being reliable and pretty. And somehow, we're kind of fine with that. But as soon as people drop the price and add features……they're not good enough.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

Yeah…if you're using cheap, chinese stuff……keep at least 2 on hand to make it less likely they'll both die at the same time. But they're cheap enough to do that. The only thing that IMHO doesn't make sense is buying a LT instead of 2 twists. Yeah…the long-term costs might be reduced, but what happens if your button dies or the circuit board fries and you don't have a backup? Maybe no one without other stuff buys them. But that doesn't come up in recommendations either. And I guess we can all deal with gas station disposables for a couple days while we wait on shipping……but it's still something to think about.

Sorry…I'm rambling.

 

[wv2win]

Just out of curiosity, do people complain about the Darwin also not working well with DCCs the same way? Again, no experience, but the reviews I've seen show some weird issues with it…namely that the power is distributed between 2 coils instead of 1, meaning it never reaches the right temperature and you're essentially limited to half the power that you have set……just twice as much surface area.

DCCs should work faster (owing to increased surface area of the heating elements) but it takes twice the power to achieve the same temperature.



Agreed…to a degree. I think you've proven the first point. But you also have to realize that all of this stuff is cheap. I'd be annoyed if I found those types of practices in something the price of a Provari, Darwin, GG, Empire, etc.. The LTs' prices are pushing it for what I'd be happy with. But if a replacement for the $20 twist comes out in 2 months……who cares? I like this one. If one came out tomorrow with a 4A limit that goes up to 6V, I'd just order one.

I looked at the numbers and compared to what I was spending on cigarettes (1 PAD of Lucky Stirkes at $~64/carton, not including cleaning supplies, insurance penalties, or future health costs) I could start a brand-new Carto every day, vape ~3ml/day of good juice, buy a new Provari with new batteries every 2 months……and still come out on top. Buying a new twist and a new clearo every week would be another option. I think the average twist dying within a week would be a serious fluke and probably something the retailer would take care of……especially with that kind of a purchase history.

Depending on where you live and what you smoked, all of this stuff is insanely cheap. Everything that's readily produced may as well be disposable and longevity only really comes into play with custom stuff or stuff that is only built occasionally or in small batches. Or if you just like something that isn't made anymore. And things like the GG, Empire, Kick……the discontinued mechanical mods some people love……custom pipes……etc.. Those things kind of just don't have features. Independent of the Kick, they're all single-voltage, unprotected devices, right?

The only reason we're not complaining about planned obsolescence of them is because they have no features other than being reliable and pretty. And somehow, we're kind of fine with that. But as soon as people drop the price and add features……they're not good enough.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

Yeah…if you're using cheap, chinese stuff……keep at least 2 on hand to make it less likely they'll both die at the same time. But they're cheap enough to do that. The only thing that IMHO doesn't make sense is buying a LT instead of 2 twists. Yeah…the long-term costs might be reduced, but what happens if your button dies or the circuit board fries and you don't have a backup? Maybe no one without other stuff buys them. But that doesn't come up in recommendations either. And I guess we can all deal with gas station disposables for a couple days while we wait on shipping……but it's still something to think about.

Sorry…I'm rambling.

I use a Darwin everyday with 1.5 ohm dual coil cartomizers and have no problems at all. It's upper limit with 1.5 ohm DCC's is 4.7 volts, but that is right in the 4.5 - 5.0 "sweet spot" for vaping.

And your suggestion that because the lavatube is cheap it's understandable that they only put a 2.5 amp limit in it, just doesn't hold water, I'm afraid. It would have cost them only a couple of cents to put a 4 amp limit in the lavatube. When a $35 box mod comes with a 4 amp limit, there is no reason that a lavatube should have a 2.5 amp limit. It's just a manufacturer taking advantage of people with the "next, new, better lavatube" BS marketing scam.

 

[tj99959]

The reality is that people can exult the virtues of the Darwin all they want to ................ TRY TO BUY ONE!

It's upper limit with 1.5 ohm DCC's is 4.7 volts

So a little 35$ box mod from MadVapes can out do it. (5.4v)

If you look at what Brandon has been doing lately, first the Kick, then the DNA chip, now a new USB charge port chip it shouldn't be all that hard to figure out that if and when the Darwin does reappear, it will be a completely different animal.

But for now bringing all this new stuff to market is a full time job, so I would be surprised to see any new Darwins any time soon.

Might want to listen to this pod cast if you would like to know what a real mod is capable of.
The Invisible Enemy - and.....Lexi, a VW Mod by Mamu Featuring power regulation by The Nivel Chip by VP Live on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

I should add:
I'm not knocking the Darwin, it is (or was) a very good mod. But, it wasn't the end of PV development, and as we move ever closer to a year since a Darwin was produced it just isn't a mod that can be recommended anymore.

 

[mostapha]

I use a Darwin everyday with 1.5 ohm dual coil cartomizers and have no problems at all. It's upper limit with 1.5 ohm DCC's is 4.7 volts, but that is right in the 4.5 - 5.0 "sweet spot" for vaping.

4.7 V into a 1.5 Ω dual coil gives 14.73 W total, or 7.36 W per coil. Which is about on par with the 7.61 W you get with an unregulated mechanical 3.7 V mod into a 1.8 Ω single coil for most of the life of the battery……it just produces a certain volume of vapor ~twice as fast due to having more surface area at which to transfer heat. Which is great……unless you want to vape at 9 W or 10 W as people seem to do. IDK how relevant that is, but the Darwin–one of the most advanced mods on the planet–is still limited with DCCs. It's higher than the 2.5A limit on the LT for sure (~4.7W per coil), but it's still a limit that's below what some people like.

If I had to choose, DCCs lose hands-down.

 

[tj99959]

If I had to choose, DCCs lose hands-down.

No doubt dual coils complicate what we ask a PV to do, however there are a lot of people that love them. So wouldn't say they are a looser. They are just a different way.
The person that wants to use dual coils needs a mod that can power them, but the person that doesn't want to use dual coils has no need for high amp limits. What could be simpler than that?

 

[betsyj121]

I love my mini LavaTube! I'm fairly new to vaping but once I got some help from the fabulous people here at ECF I know use it with no touble at all!!!
Happy vaping!

 

[wv2win]

The reality is that people can exult the virtues of the Darwin all they want to ................ TRY TO BUY ONE!

So a little 35$ box mod from MadVapes can out do it. (5.4v)

If you look at what Brandon has been doing lately, first the Kick, then the DNA chip, now a new USB charge port chip it shouldn't be all that hard to figure out that if and when the Darwin does reappear, it will be a completely different animal.

But for now bringing all this new stuff to market is a full time job, so I would be surprised to see any new Darwins any time soon.

Might want to listen to this pod cast if you would like to know what a real mod is capable of.
The Invisible Enemy - and.....Lexi, a VW Mod by Mamu Featuring power regulation by The Nivel Chip by VP Live on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

I should add:
I'm not knocking the Darwin, it is (or was) a very good mod. But, it wasn't the end of PV development, and as we move ever closer to a year since a Darwin was produced it just isn't a mod that can be recommended anymore.

You still have that reading comprehension problem that shows up in so many of your posts. No one, including me, was recommending a Darwin to the OP. I was simply answering a question from another poster about the Darwin and using DCC's. And the last I talked with Brandon, the Darwin, or the next generation of Darwins, are in the near future. And there still isn't a model that matches everything the Darwin brings to the table. Unlike you, I don't need multiple PV's to get an excellent vape every day, based on other posts you have made.

 

[wv2win]

4.7 V into a 1.5 Ω dual coil gives 14.73 W total, or 7.36 W per coil. Which is about on par with the 7.61 W you get with an unregulated mechanical 3.7 V mod into a 1.8 Ω single coil for most of the life of the battery……it just produces a certain volume of vapor ~twice as fast due to having more surface area at which to transfer heat. Which is great……unless you want to vape at 9 W or 10 W as people seem to do. IDK how relevant that is, but the Darwin–one of the most advanced mods on the planet–is still limited with DCCs. It's higher than the 2.5A limit on the LT for sure (~4.7W per coil), but it's still a limit that's below what some people like.

If I had to choose, DCCs lose hands-down.

That's amusing. When they make an atty or carto or tank that the Darwin can't handle, then I will agree that it has a "meaningful" limit. So currently, your point is not relevant since the limit that the Darwin has is immaterial.

And comparing the Darwin (or a Provari for that matter) to an unregulated 3.7v PV also makes little sense to me. If you have never vaped a full 18 hour day on a PV (without needing to charge it) that is power regulated and has boost circuit technology, then there is no way you can understand the significant difference in the vaping experience between that and an unregulated 3.7v PV and an LR atty or carto. It's like the difference between riding a tricycle vs a Honda RedWing.

 

[mostapha]

I wasn't saying the Darwin can't handle it, I'm saying that it does have a limit to what it can do and that limit with DCCs might be a bit lower than some people want.

I really think my numbers are right…please correct me if that's not the case. If the limit on the Twist is 2.5A, then I'm currently vaping (right now) at about 9W into a single coil, which is more than the Darwin can do with a DCC. And I have it set a touch higher at other times.

Voltage isn't all that important…neither is power, really…it's about temperature. And DCCs use power differently from SC stuff, producing a different temperature at the same power.

I'm sure the Darwin is awesome……it's also ugly, but other people feel differently and/or don't care. It's not the problem. The problem–in my honest and humble opinion–is Dual Coil stuff. If you like them, awesome. Keep on using them. But, they take a lot of power to produce the same temperature.

I'm just saying that if I was sure I wanted to use DCCs, I'd want something that could output 20W to make sure I have a bit of room above where I like to be (so I'm not running things hard the whole time)……and the Darwin can't do that. Very few VV mods can. So, if that's something you want…don't use VV. So far, I think VV (on whatever device) is worth more than DCs.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[tj99959]

You still have that reading comprehension problem that shows up in so many of your posts. No one, including me, was recommending a Darwin to the OP. I was simply answering a question from another poster about the Darwin and using DCC's. And the last I talked with Brandon, the Darwin, or the next generation of Darwins, are in the near future. And there still isn't a model that matches everything the Darwin brings to the table. Unlike you, I don't need multiple PV's to get an excellent vape every day, based on other posts you have made.

WV2 we all know that you like your Darwin, and there is nothing wrong with that. We also know that the Darwin is a good mod.
But, stop with the 'it's the only mod worth having stuff'! Some times you come across with that just a bit to much is all.
If a person is happy with their LT, let them be happy with their LT. There are probably 1,000 LT users out there for every Darwin user, and they don't need to be made to feel somehow inferior to an almighty Darwin user.

And there still isn't a model that matches everything the Darwin brings to the table.

Oh really!

Guess you have never tried a OKR-T6 regulated mod.
Or a Nivel chip regulated mod
Or even an Evolv stacked DNA-12 regulated mod
See if your darwin can match these specs

Max Watts:
1.5 ohm DCC: 22.6W, 5.92V, 3.81A
2.5 ohm DCC: 14.2W, 6.0V, 2.36A
2.2 ohm SCC: 16.6W, 5.99V, 2.78A
3.0 ohm SCC: 11.7W, 6.01V, 1.94A
1.6 ohm LR atty: --- it popped
2.4 ohm Std. atty: 15.1W, 6.0V, 2.52A

 

[cnbenzoe]

I have 2 chrome LT (Lrider) full and mini, mini 2.0 (YoungJune), EVO, and my Provari mini is in the mail I like them all the mini LT battery life is short to me but I do vape 10-15 ml a day I beleave whatever keeps us off the analogs is good

 

[teamscon]

First and foremost, I never recommended the twist. Regardless of the twist limitations, that does not negate the lavatubes limitations or the fact that the fanboys never tell the new person that the 2.5 amp limit will not allow the use of dual coil cartomizers and atomizers. And I never stated that dual coils was everyone's cup of tea. Although there are thousands who use them and prefer them. But this newbie could easily read posts about DCC's, want to try them, buy them and then realize they won't work with the lavatube and thus, wasted money because the fanboys never told them about this limitation. Not very helpful in my book.

My point stands, that there are plenty of alternatives that do not limit what can be used on them. And since lavatube supposidly is now coming out with a 4 amp limit model, my point that the makers build "planned obselescence" into the the product, is accurate. That's just BS marketing to get more hard earned money from people. There are plenty of PV's on the market as good or better than the lavatube that don't operate that way. The eGo makers do the same thing. There is no reason to put a 2.5 amp limit on a PV when for a couple of cents it can be built with a 4 amp limit, other than to try and get more money out of people.

Starfire vv will accept dual coils wont it?

 

[mostapha]

3 A limit. So, it'll do better than the twist, but it'll top out at 4.5V for 15.75 W total or ~7.9W per coil.

It'll work, but it won't be as warm as a single coil on basically any VV mod.

It seems like a lot of people would be happy with that, but it's not much more power than a normal carto on a 3.7v mod.

 

[wv2win]

WV2 we all know that you like your Darwin, and there is nothing wrong with that. We also know that the Darwin is a good mod.
But, stop with the 'it's the only mod worth having stuff'! Some times you come across with that just a bit to much is all.
If a person is happy with their LT, let them be happy with their LT. There are probably 1,000 LT users out there for every Darwin user, and they don't need to be made to feel somehow inferior to an almighty Darwin user.



Oh really!

Guess you have never tried a OKR-T6 regulated mod.
Or a Nivel chip regulated mod
Or even an Evolv stacked DNA-12 regulated mod
See if your darwin can match these specs

Well, tj, thanks for proving my point, AGAIN about your reading comprehension problem. You really need to understand what you are reading, instead of just reacting to the mention of the word "Darwin". I didn't bring up the Darwin in this thread. I simply responded to another posters comments about the Darwin. I never recommended the Darwin to the OP. You keep missing those points.

But as the other poster pointed out, a PV is more than just what power it can push. A point that you fail to understand or comprehend with your little chart. Specifically, how many PV's regulate "watts" and not "volts", which anyone who understands power use knows is a better power regulation mechanisum. Second, what other PV senses the resistence change in the atty/carto and automatically changes the power level to match the setting preferred by the user?

I know you don't comprehend how these features work since you never mention them in your attack posts. You have a bad habit of only providing partial information in trying to make your points. This bad habit along with totally misrepresenting another person's posts, really helps no one.

 

[tj99959]

Specifically, how many PV's regulate "watts" and not "volts"

ROFLMAO
That "chart" is of stacked Evolv DNA-12 chips which is a WATT controlled device.
Now if you were up with what is going on in the vaping world, you would have known that!

Oh and here is a pic of the mod that produced those stats.

which anyone who understands power use knows is a better power regulation mechanisum.

Unfortunately that is only an opinion, which many in the vaping community disagree with.

You will find that my comprehension level is quite high,and I didn't miss the point at all.
Fact is I like the Darwin, it was a great mod. I just don't happen to belong to any specific APV fan boy club. The reality is that wattage controlled APV's only fill a "niche" in the vaping community. They are no more for everyone than voltage controlled APV's are. Being as I have, and use both, I can assure you that the vape from both tastes the same.
You see, you tend to make comments like the quote above as if they are a fact instead of just your opinion. You are also quick to point out that anyone that disagrees with your facts is somehow sub-human.

Now here's a FACT that maybe you can comprehend.
Ohms LAW is written in a circle, and no one factor is more important than another.

Any two of it's four components can be set as a "constant" to control the others.

 

[fourtytwo]

Wow, this is the one thing I hate about this forum. The OP asks a simple question about a budget device and it degenerates into a crap war about other devices.
Is this really the best way to help?

 

[Pappy]

Wow, this is the one thing I hate about this forum. The OP asks a simple question about a budget device and it degenerates into a crap war about other devices.
Is this really the best way to help?

I suppose the OP now must think that the only APV worth buying is either the Twist or the Darwin. All others must suck.

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here happily vaping my VTube and Vivi Nova tank with the 2.8ohm head, and still wondering why I don't feel limited by the 2.5amp limit on the VTube.

 

[fourtytwo]

I suppose the OP now must think that the only APV worth buying is either the Twist or the Darwin. All others must suck.

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here happily vaping my VTube and Vivi Nova tank with the 2.8ohm head, and still wondering why I don't feel limited by the 2.5amp limit on the VTube.

Well, I also offered up my support for the Twist.
My Lava tube has been a real champ. No complaints at all about dependability or quality of build. It is what it is. An inexpensive device offering good features and value.
It does not offer some of the features of the Darwin, Provari etc but it cost a fraction of the price.
It is also readily available from a lot of vendors and easy to use.
It has been a very good introduction to the world of VV, although, my feeling is that the Twist has a slight advantage in this area due to my preference for a lighter device.

BTW, mine took a nose dive tip first on to a tile floor hard enough to crack a tile (had a tank with a stainless steel tip). No damage to the LT at all. It may be heavy but it is also durable.