Lawsuits are coming

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TropicalBob

Vaping Master
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Jan 13, 2008
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Interesting story in today's newspaper that I think has application to e-smoking.

It seems a product named Airborne swept America, purporting to be a way to stop the common cold from the very start. Just dissolve an Airborne tablet and drink a glass of medicated water. Many users swore by it. Medical authorities didn't buy it.

State attorneys general sued -- and won.

My state, Florida, has begun divvying up the $7-million settlement from the company that made Airborne. How did this happen?

Airborne made claims that it was a "cold-prevention remedy" (based on vitamin content), that it was a "sore throat remedy," a "germ fighter," and an "allergy remedy."

Prove it, the lawsuit said.

Ooops. Lots of anecdotes from happy customers meant nothing. That's not proof.

Airborne set out to obtain clinical proof of its effectiveness. That wasn't good enough. The judgment ruled that Airborne's ad claims were "not substantiated by reliable and competent scientific evidence at the time the claims were made."

Want to summarize unproven -- thus false -- claims for e-smoking:

1. Easy to quit smoking. Absolutely no study has been done. A quit-smoking claim now by any device advertiser could result in a judgment that bankrupts that company tomorrow.

2. Smoke anywhere. Not if a property owner forbids the practice. Thus the flat claim is false.

3. Healthier than tobacco cigarettes. An assumption is not proof. There have been no studies to show e-smoking is healthier than smoking tobacco cigarettes. We certainly hope so, but hope is not admissable evidence.

4. No carcinogenic substances. Provable in a court of law?

And remember from the Airborne case that any statement already made can result in a massive damage award. Remember that states, not the federal government, sued. I'd say quite a few e-smoking sellers who misrepresent their products should be shaking right about now. Only one state attorney general has the power to bring you down for your false and misleading statements.
 
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slianfoxob

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Dec 2, 2008
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Bethlehem, PA
for some reason, i see the first lawsuit erupting over "smoking anywhere." almost every supplier touts this and it's such bull. i still treat my ecig like it's an analog when it comes to smoking bans. in my home, it's a different story.

but seriously, i'm waiting for someone to get arrested or ticketed for esmoking indoors in a public building and then filing suit because some supplier told them they could use it anywhere...
 

slianfoxob

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Dec 2, 2008
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Yes, if anyone is going to start a lawsuit rolling, it would be Smoking Everywhere. The people they have at their carts and even their website has lots of untruths.


well, i wasn't specifically talking about the company Smoking Everywhere but rather the claim the ecigs can be smoked everywhere by almost every supplier, even some of the White Hats.

However, i wouldn't be suprised if it starts with Smoking Everywhere. The people they have working those kiosks are a bunch of boobs. They barely know enough about their own product much less the ever-expanding realm of ecigs
 
I really think the term "e-smoking" is very problematic on its own. Because we are categorically not smoking anything. This false terminology actually hurts our cause quite significantly IMO to those who are ignorant of what it is, even if it has advantages as a marketing ploy by sellers.

It makes it much more dicey for public acceptance as soon as people hear the word "smoking" mentioned, which could then result in legal ramifications.
 
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robw

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Nov 7, 2008
657
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Austin Texas
Here is the thing. The industry is comprised of resellers of china companies. The attorney general can sue the resellers but not the china manufacturer. China is not in the Jurisdiction of a State.

So for those resellers who are violating the publics trust by making claims that can not be backed by a scientific study, you only hurt your self. Those reseller who make no claims at all, then you just have to worry about the instruction manual that is included with the ecig. There are some claims made in some of them that can come back to bite you.
 

slianfoxob

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Dec 2, 2008
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Bethlehem, PA
Those reseller who make no claims at all, then you just have to worry about the instruction manual that is included with the ecig. There are some claims made in some of them that can come back to bite you.


All the more reason for suppliers to throw out those ridiculous manuals and create their own with better information.


Foxy
 

Chris From Cali

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
I hope it really doesn't come to this. I have however noticed that a few websites are taking the honest approach such a Steve from Puresmoker, everything on his FAQ page is no BS straight up. I was also on Totally wicked liquid.com and they had a FAQ page which was pretty darn blunt and honest as well. I hope that some of the other companies will change there ways and do the same thing. Again, only time will tell I suppose.
 

K0rvet

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Dec 24, 2008
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The only other time I was successfully able to quit analogs was with a Nicotrol inhaler. Nothing else kept me away. E-cigs are comparable to Nicotrol. The only difference is heated atomization of nicotine. Since Nicotrol is only available by prescription, studies have been conducted my the AMA and FDA on it. That is the only solid defense I could think of... ?
 

Chris From Cali

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
The only other time I was successfully able to quit analogs was with a Nicotrol inhaler. Nothing else kept me away. E-cigs are comparable to Nicotrol. The only difference is heated atomization of nicotine. Since Nicotrol is only available by prescription, studies have been conducted my the AMA and FDA on it. That is the only solid defense I could think of... ?

At least we have the brains going, but, I don't think that would be strong enough in court.
 

usehername

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Nov 16, 2008
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USA
The whole e-cig commerce situation is just laughable. I think is easier to set up a nicotine shop on the net than it is to sell baseball cards on Ebay. It scares me to read noobie questions one week and a few weeks later see the word "supplier" in a users profile. I have nothing against someone making a quick buck but leave out the idiotic claims as TB has eluded to. I got an RC helicopter for Christmas from my kids. As soon as I can learn to hover it I will be looking into giving flight lessons at our local airport............
 

SMILIN

Moved On
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Sep 21, 2008
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www.vapor4life.com
I really think the term "e-smoking" is very problematic on its own. Because we are categorically not smoking anything. This false terminology actually hurts our cause quite significantly IMO to those who are ignorant of what it is, even if it has advantages as a marketing ploy by sellers.

It makes it much more dicey for public acceptance as soon as people hear the word "smoking" mentioned, which could then result in legal ramifications.

Should just be E.Vaping, substitude Vaping(accurate)for smoking(lie).
 

Kaston

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 14, 2008
355
31
Texas, USA
Call me a hippy, but why are we worrying about these "what ifs"? If you are in a country where the legality of vaping is an issue, then I understand, but trying to guess what the future holds for our beloved e-cigs will only cause unnecessary stress.

Please don't take my words as being rude or upset. After living through the Bush era of scare tactics, I am just tired of it. The title of this thread "Law suits are coming" instantly made me think that, well, law suits are coming which was a misleading headline.

Yes, one day our products will be examined and ruled upon by governments, but instead of discussing all the awful things that could happen and cowering in fear, do something. Educate everyone you can, write a letter to your senator, or try to encourage your local university to do some studies on e-cigs.

All I am saying is that speculation gets you no where and does nothing for anyone.

-Peace, love, and vaping
 

Lithium1330

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 22, 2008
439
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Mexico
Call me a hippy, but why are we worrying about these "what ifs"? If you are in a country where the legality of vaping is an issue, then I understand, but trying to guess what the future holds for our beloved e-cigs will only cause unnecessary stress.

Please don't take my words as being rude or upset. After living through the Bush era of scare tactics, I am just tired of it. The title of this thread "Law suits are coming" instantly made me think that, well, law suits are coming which was a misleading headline.

Yes, one day our products will be examined and ruled upon by governments, but instead of discussing all the awful things that could happen and cowering in fear, do something. Educate everyone you can, write a letter to your senator, or try to encourage your local university to do some studies on e-cigs.

All I am saying is that speculation gets you no where and does nothing for anyone.

-Peace, love, and vaping

I totally agree with you, one day this will happen and I'm a little surprised nobody is organized, maybe it's time to us to be organized just in this great forum there are 2,386 members, 960 of them are active members, some of them have a really good reputation, some have electronic knowledge, some others have medical knowledge, some others have quimical knowledge, we need all this knowledge organized as well as law knowledge, we could even try to run studies on this devices and the quimical involved and the colateral effects on humans, i know it is not that easy but someone has to do it, we could donate to this cause, we could do a lot of things instead to wait for others to do it and been scared meanwhile.
 

usehername

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 16, 2008
87
0
USA
Yes, one day our products will be examined and ruled upon by governments, but instead of discussing all the awful things that could happen and cowering in fear, do something. Educate everyone you can, write a letter to your senator, or try to encourage your local university to do some studies on e-cigs.

All I am saying is that speculation gets you no where and does nothing for anyone.

-Peace, love, and vaping

The point is that you cant educate anyone because you dont actually know anything.... The studies will be done either by Government or manufacturer or both. In the mean time it would be wise to support a couple the guys that are investing in the research and making an effort for the safer production as well as shipping of this product. It may cost you a buck or two more but I cant seem to get past the image of Joe (or Jane) Blow in his bathroom sink with a 1.2 liter bottle of juice and a turkey baster filling up little bottles and labeling with crayon. There is a difference between "cowering in fear" and just plain being responsible. That goes for buyers as well as sellers. I chose to try this knowing that there is a substantial risk not only from using a basically untested product but also that It may at some point just get banned. In the time I have been using ecigs (going on 6 weeks) I have been asked about it many times. I answer with what I know and only what I know. It is about two sentences. Bottom line is the longer this ride goes without incedent the more likely it will become successful. And along the way the hardware will get better and the juice will be safer.
 

riddle80

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 25, 2008
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Nashville, TN
Lithium,

I actually started a thread on that topic HERE. It's a great read if you have the time.

The doom and gloom gets pretty upsetting when your so strongly behind these inventions. I like the idea of taking matters into our own hands, but it would take a lot of support, planning and organizing to get something like that going. You'd almost need a separate organization for that.

As for the false advertising. Indeed the suppliers really need to watch what they're saying. We as consumers also need to make sure we have our facts strait because rumors spread quickly. It's so easy to get very enthusiastic about these and tell everyone you know how safe and effective it is. Then they would tell someone else the same and so on. Before you know it, everyone will be saying it's for quitting smoking and it's 100% safe.

I think the general public have/will have tremendous support these, but government/big tobacco/pharmas will be losing LOTS of $ from them so I can see them gunning for lawsuits and regulations. Word of these things is spreading like wildfire so I'd imagine it'll be on their list soon.

There's no telling what the future holds. I'd like to think that manufacturers, suppliers, and consumers could join together to conduct something to protect it. It could lead to a safer, better product for us too :).
 
It makes it much more dicey for public acceptance as soon as people hear the word "smoking" mentioned, which could then result in legal ramifications.

I agree with this based on my very first public "confrontation."

I was approached at a pub the other day while e-smoking and told I had to "put it out." After I explained to the bartender what I was actually doing (using the term "vaporizer" instead of 'e-smoking"), he let me go right ahead and continue. I have a feeling that if I'd used the word "smoking" in any fashion, he would not have been so willing to hear me out.
 

Kaston

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 14, 2008
355
31
Texas, USA
The point is that you cant educate anyone because you dont actually know anything....

I was not referring to the level of information you alluded to, but just the product in general (like it is vapor not smoke, ect.). Just letting people know that this new -albeit unperfected-technology exists can go a long way towards future opinions. The person you talk to today about our product could be one of the people a few years from now that has the burden of making legality decisions on e-cigs.
 
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