New report who

[iamzippy]

Bob
Your ability to touch the nerve is frankly alarming. I agree with your position in just about every post of yours that I've read.
But in the final analysis, all of that which is threatened is prohibition, plain and simple.
Do we not already have lessons learned from this?

 

[TropicalBob]

Oh, I hope so. Prohibition was a disaster and the same would occur with trying to keep the population from nicotine. I hope the "powers that be" understand the potential consequences of any attempt to totally ban tobacco and nicotine. It will lead to the same kind of illegal trade that prohibition created. We need to use science as the base for arguing that e-smoking can be safe and effective in helping hardcore tobacco addicts stay away from inhaling the known dangers of combusted tobacco.

There are many hurdles ahead and we need to acknowledge that our practice at present has problems -- unregulated products of unknown quality and purity. We need to "pay the piper", as tobacco users do, to assure a source of revenue for the costs of regulation. E-smoking will not remain "free". The task for those who make and market e-smoking devices is to fund the scientific research, obtain proper permissions, avoid promises that can't be kept or proven, and carry the torch for us in hearings before regulatory agencies.

 

[iamzippy]

Hmm. And for eBay to offer up (or sellers to choose) a more appropriate category than 'quitting smoking', or whatever. Given that just about every e-cig distributor stresses it's not a 'cessation device', that doesn't help, does it?

I can't avoid this gut feeling that the better these surrogate devices capture the look and feel, the more adversarial the whole deal becomes (read: in your face, government).

Not ideal.

 

[TropicalBob]

This report from RedOrbit has some WHO quotes I've not read in other reports. It pretty much lays out what e-smoking must overcome to get government approval, once that becomes necessary. Electronic Cigarettes Not Proven Safe Or Effective - Health - redOrbit

 

[jimldk]

The Future of e-cigarettes devices and it's liquids lies with a pharmaceutical endorsement...that's the only way it could go...the cons of that is only available thru prescription (i.e. under strict medical control)...

Yes, TB is right...even me agrees that this thing needs a full medical studies if we want it to be acknowledged...the potential abuse is high and it will entices young people to think that it is safe to smoke nicotine devices..that's what scares them(WHO)....no matter how good(or bad) my clinical trials results, it won't even budge them and it will only trigger a bigger onslaught(more like waves) to diminish the known effect and the progress of this devices....we will have to wait and see..meanwhile we have to go underground....for now.

 

[TropicalBob]

Good to see you post on this, Dr. Loi. We don't hear from you often (knowing that you're a busy doctor) and we wish you all the best with your own research and trials.

I wish we had a web cam in your office!

 

[jimldk]

Good to see you post on this, Dr. Loi. We don't hear from you often (knowing that you're a busy doctor) and we wish you all the best with your own research and trials.

I wish we had a web cam in your office!

Hi ya Bob....sorry, been really out recently...had a lot of stress ...wish I had a webcam too (at home now)...

Trials results are being compiled and tabulated...good overall but will it be enough to convince the almighty WHO.....???

Gonna get tough my friend...and i need more than luck this time...

 

[Nazareth]

The Future of e-cigarettes devices and it's liquids lies with a pharmaceutical endorsement...that's the only way it could go...the cons of that is only available thru prescription (i.e. under strict medical control)...

Yes, TB is right...even me agrees that this thing needs a full medical studies if we want it to be acknowledged...the potential abuse is high and it will entices young people to think that it is safe to smoke nicotine devices..that's what scares them(WHO)....no matter how good(or bad) my clinical trials results, it won't even budge them and it will only trigger a bigger onslaught(more like waves) to diminish the known effect and the progress of this devices....we will have to wait and see..meanwhile we have to go underground....for now.

Probably at worst- all that is going to be needed are 3 things- one, that manufacturers and sellers stop promoting it as a smoking sessation device (even htough there is enough ample testimonials it indeed does help some people stop- and if a clinical trail could be conducted, even htis requirement by the WHO could be dropped IF it is found the device indeed does help people quit) and two, that warning labels be installed on the packages, and 3 that it not be sold to teens. If big tobacco has not come under perscription only category, then I just can't see somethign that in most likelihood is much much safer would fall under that category either

 

[Ruby]

... 3 that it not be sold to teens. If big tobacco has not come under perscription only category, then I just can't see somethign that in most likelihood is much much safer would fall under that category either

Good points here - why should cigarettes not be branded pharmaceutically then??? I'd take a guess at the fact that it suits them for us to smoke contrary to all their bans and hype about it.

The worrying bit is teen use - how does an internet seller know they are not selling to an underage person? With cigs if the shop owner suspects they are underage they are asked to produce ID.

 

[TropicalBob]

Please, understand your government agencies. In the United States, tobacco products have their own regulatory agency, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The Food and Drug Administration has not had power over tobacco (but Congress is about to change that). Nicotine is another matter. The FDA has jurisdiction over all drugs. E-cigs are NOT a tobacco product. We are a nicotine delivery system, pure and simple. A drug delivery system. Just like Big Pharma's inhaler, etc. The FDA can demand extensive and expensive trials that will take years, while banning our products until those trials are completed and passed on.

This will not be a walk in the park while we all e-puff and quote the amazing things e-smoking has done for us. Take off the rose-colored glasses, folks. They warp reality. And start a collection to bail Dr. Loi out of a Malaysian jail! What is he up to?

 

[ric]

I understand that the WHO's Tobacco Free Initiative receives much of its funding from the very pharmaceutical companies who produce the "legitimate" nicotine replacement therapy's. I therefore take this propaganda release with a large pinch of salt.

Its also convenient that only the pharmaceutical companies have the funds to carry out the required research to make the E Cigarette "legitimate". I eagerly await the release of a "WHO Certified" GlaxoSmithkline E Cig!

 

[iamzippy]

I tried the horrendous nicotine-replacement gum treatment 15 years ago. It kept me off the weed for like 6 months. Trouble is, I could not kick the gum habit. So I lapsed, and here I still am.
What worries me is that in the absence of a clearly prescribed applicative use, these e-cig delivery systems are likely to fall into the same classification as chillums, bongs and crack pipes. The opportunity for that is right there.
It was a government-approved tax-payable regime that allowed me, even encouraged me, to become an addict.
For whom the bell tolls.

 

[Kimmiegrif]

I quit smoking cigarettes by using electronic cigarettes. I use low and no nicotine mostly and I am proof they can be used to quit smoking cigarettes and stopping nicotine addiction. Now...what we need is really good testing done in the US that shows the ingestion of PG is not harmful. Does anyone know if that is being done? I don't like seeing WHOs statement plastered all over the internet and different media misquoting WHO's statement using headlines that imply or blatantly state e cigs are toxic or do not help those that want to stop smoking!

 

[Kimmiegrif]

Just a Newbies idea...What do ya think?

I found this on the internet and emailed the WHO people mentioned below to tell them that I have stopped smoking with the help of electronic cigs. I would imagine if their are any others that have quit smoking cigarettes and ecigs have helped, they should email these people too.


Here's what I found online:

The WHO Study Group on Tobacco Product Regulation is scheduled to address the electronic cigarette, among other topics, 12-14 November 2008 in Durban, South Africa. Convened by WHO Director-General Dr Margaret Chan, its mandate is to advise her on scientifically sound and evidence-based recommendations to the Member States about tobacco product regulation.

For more information please contact:

Timothy A. O'Leary
Communications Officer
Tobacco Free Initiative
WHO, Geneva
Telephone: +41 22 791 5539
Mobile: +41 79 516 5601
E-mail: olearyt@who.int

Stéfanie Laniel
Communications Officer
Tobacco Free Initiative
WHO, Geneva
Telephone: +41 22 791 1018
Mobile: +41 79 475 5524
E-mail: laniels@who.int

 

[Ruby]

Don't know if it would help much but maybe if we create an anecdotal list somewhere on site and then e-mail it to them? There is always more power in numbers. At worst they will ignore us at best they might decide to be more benevolent and do proper tests?

 

[Kate]

Don't know if it would help much but maybe if we create an anecdotal list somewhere on site and then e-mail it to them? There is always more power in numbers. At worst they will ignore us at best they might decide to be more benevolent and do proper tests?

The 'quitting with the e-cigarette' board probably qualifies as an anecdotal list - Quitting with the E-Cigarette - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

Welcome to the forum Kimmie.

 

[TropicalBob]

The World Health Organization is advisory. It makes recommends on health matters to more than 160 nations around the world. Its impact is serious! And it does NOT do tests. It evaluates other tests and offers an opinion. What WHO has said is that tests are lacking to show either the safety of e-smoking or its efficacy as a quit-smoking aid.

Tests take time. Lots of time. But it appears WHO is not even aware of the Health New Zealand research that has been underway on e-smoking for almost a year, and has produced two interim reports that raise no red flags. This is NOT a quit-smoking product and will be banned if advertised or sold as one. Do not go that route. It's a harm reduction alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes.

If WHO becomes aware of Dr. Murray Laugesen's tests in New Zealand, or would contact Dr. Jim Loi in Malaysia, then it might get some scientific evidence that e-smoking is both safe and effective in replacing the known hazards of tobacco smoking.

Forget petitions, pleas and anecdotes. Those will get form-letter replies. Point WHO is the direction of research underway -- and hope WHO sees the light.

 

[Denni]

Has Dr. Loi actually published anything (peer-reviewed)? I think there may be issues with bias there which may do our cause more harm than good!

 

[TropicalBob]

E-smoking has not existed long enough for peer-reviewed clinical trial studies. Answer is "no".

 

[supermig]

Hello to all.
I´ve been reading this forum for a while, since I personnaly bot my first e-cig and that really realised that it helped me a lot to reduce my normal cigarette consumption.

After the WHO article, I decided to call the WHO last Monday.. just to tell them my own personal experience because I think it would be a big step backward to ban it. I spend 30 min on the phone with Stéfanie Laniel
Communications Officer
Tobacco Free Initiative
WHO, Geneva
Telephone: +41 22 791 1018
Mobile: +41 79 475 5524
E-mail: laniels@who.int

She thanked me for my call/contribution and suggested me to call the WHO' s doctor specialised in toxicity matters and also another contact of the person specially in charge of the e-cig dossier.
I think we could have certain impact if we all email them (or call)... If anybody wants the contacts (doctor and the second person), let me know. Maybe one doctor that is currently doing tests could be the right person to call them.
I did not called them yet because my english is not my 1st language. I spoke to stephanie Laniel (French-speaking).
She confirmed me that they have nothing against it, but they do not like the lack of historial, and also the opacity surrounding the manufacturing of the e-liquid, being the vast majority of liquid produced in china... Also, they are upset because many websites say that it is recommended by the WHO... etc. etc...

I hope my message helps you. At the end we might all have to group in an association to finance tests... a european association of users ready to invest some € together. We are very numerous interested to get these stuff recognised !