Let's Talk Hardware

[PapawBrett]

Supply and Demand. Harley Davidson once lowered it's production, thereby making the usual demand seemingly outnumbering the supply. It was a business practice that pretty much saved them from bankruptcy while increasing the profit per sale. Sometimes I think there are mod Makers who exercise the same principle. Pdib and Tmod come to mind....

 

[retic1959]

Supply and Demand. Harley Davidson once lowered it's production, thereby making the usual demand seemingly outnumbering the supply. It was a business practice that pretty much saved them from bankruptcy while increasing the profit per sale. Sometimes I think there are mod Makers who exercise the same principle. Pdib and Tmod come to mind....

If Harley hadn't drastically upped their quality at the same time they still would've gone belly up , that's a lesson that some in this business haven't learned yet . I also suspect some mod makers are playing on both sides of the fence , the Stingray X clones were on pre-sale weeks before the authentic was released , it's a smart move if that's actually the case .

 

[Bronze]

Supply and Demand. Harley Davidson once lowered it's production, thereby making the usual demand seemingly outnumbering the supply. It was a business practice that pretty much saved them from bankruptcy while increasing the profit per sale. Sometimes I think there are Mod Makers who exercise the same principle. Pdib and Tmod come to mind....

If Harley hadn't drastically upped their quality at the same time they still would've gone belly up , that's a lesson that some in this business haven't learned yet . I also suspect some Mod makers are playing on both sides of the fence , the Stingray X clones were on pre-sale weeks before the authentic was released , it's a smart move if that's actually the case .

Agree with both. It's like the authentic makers try to manufacture prestige or something. I didn't mind paying $100 for authentic KFL's when they came out but I draw a line and I'm not paying $180 for a K4...or any other atty for that matter. Lots of them charging well in excess of $100 nowadays.

 

[retic1959]

Agree with both. It's like the authentic makers try to manufacture prestige or something. I didn't mind paying $100 for authentic KFL's when they came out but I draw a line and I'm not paying $180 for a K4...or any other atty for that matter. Lots of them charging well in excess of $100 nowadays.

I'm not picking up a Kf4 clone either , while I'm sure the atty works well it offers no advantage over what I already have , my other gripe is the some of the authentic makers aren't offering a full kit for the $180 , You have to pay extra if you want more airflow , different tank options , etc , it's overboard IMO .

 

[retic1959]

Q did a vid review on it. He liked it a lot. But Q likes everything.

Nah , I'll wait . I figger Dusty's Shineyitis will flare up again and he'll pick one up .

 

[retic1959]

For starters, I have dealt with US manufacturers and Chinese manufacturers. You can scream as loud as you want and many of these Chinese manufacturers still don't get the message and they ship crap. Second, the price is largely determined by what the market will bear. They have determined that pricing an atty at $180 is how they can maximize their profits. I wont pay $180 but there are plenty who will...apparently. If people refuse to pay the $180, they will lower their prices...guaranteed.

Looks like maybe the amount of people willing to pay $180 dwindled quicker than SM expected , I just checked Intaste , and the KF4 is priced at $133.10 minus shipping .

 

[kkay59]

Not necessarily. They make think selling a small volume, at a higher price is better. I think selling high volume at a lower price, is better. Look at Fast Tech. How many clones do you think they sell, at a low price? I don't know, but it is surely a massive amount. Authentic makers could even sell their own gear, and knock out the middle man charges, making their own products more affordable. This is a tough economy. It might be something to consider. I knew I probably wouldn't be in the majority in my thinking. The Lemo/Lemo Drop by Eleaf is selling like hotcakes. It is a great product, at an affordable price. Not only does it work well, they have tweaked it. (well the Lemo anyway) They listened to what people wanted. If they weren't making money, they wouldn't keep doing what they are doing. Look at the iStick. It is a huge seller, also by Eleaf. If you keep the price in reach, more people will buy it. Sure you will always have gear snobs. But by and large, I'd still stick with my opinion. You may be right though Bronze. I just tossed this out here, to see what others thought.

If the authentics thought they would make more money in the long run by lowering their price they would have done it. Right?

 

[retic1959]

Not necessarily. They make think selling a small volume, at a higher price is better. I think selling high volume at a lower price, is better. Look at Fast Tech. How many clones do you think they sell, at a low price? I don't know, but it is surely a massive amount. Authentic makers could even sell their own gear, and knock out the middle man charges, making their own products more affordable. This is a tough economy. It might be something to consider. I knew I probably wouldn't be in the majority in my thinking. The Lemo/Lemo Drop by Eleaf is selling like hotcakes. It is a great product, at an affordable price. Not only does it work well, they have tweaked it. (well the Lemo anyway) They listened to what people wanted. If they weren't making money, they wouldn't keep doing what they are doing. Look at the iStick. It is a huge seller, also by Eleaf. If you keep the price in reach, more people will buy it. Sure you will always have gear snobs. But by and large, I'd still stick with my opinion. You may be right though Bronze. I just tossed this out here, to see what others thought.

I think Bronze was being a bit tongue in cheek with that response KK , hence the >>>

 

[Bronze]

I'm not picking up a Kf4 clone either , while I'm sure the atty works well it offers no advantage over what I already have , my other gripe is the some of the authentic makers aren't offering a full kit for the $180 , You have to pay extra if you want more airflow , different tank options , etc , it's overboard IMO .

Yep. They aint gettin' my business at those prices. Drippers are going for well in excess of $100. Screw that!

 

[Bronze]

Looks like maybe the amount of people willing to pay $180 dwindled quicker than SM expected , I just checked Intaste , and the KF4 is priced at $133.10 minus shipping .

Is that pounds or dollars? Actually, inTaste had theirs initially priced at about $160 US. . (minus shipping). Rape Rev had theirs at $180 US (minus shipping)

 

[Bronze]

I don't think any of us have any idea quite truthfully. I believe the designers are pricing it to maximize their profits (as anyone would) as they see the market far better than any of us. If they felt they could increase profits by reducing the price I'm pretty sure they would. I make this claim because all these big time atty designers are doing the same thing. Their prices are ridiculous...drippers and tanks. They all price them through the roof so I don't believe they are all wrong. They see something we don't.

 

[PapawBrett]

I am just sitting here thinking....

That Cyclone / Cyclops I paid $80 for is a Vicious Ant, which I believe is the Original. It's waiting for a $225 Woodvil to call home.
Then I see the ECF Banners some people have with "$ XXX.xx Saved !" and I think, fuzzy math.

 

[retic1959]

Is that pounds or dollars? Actually, inTaste had theirs initially priced at about $160 US. . (minus shipping). Rape Rev had theirs at $180 US (minus shipping)

It's dollars , I backed out the 19% VAT tax and converted euros to dollars , the dollar is strong against the euro and the pound right now so it's a good time to buy from europe , you'd still be looking at $150 with shipping though .

 

[Bronze]

It's dollars , I backed out the 19% VAT tax and converted euros to dollars , the dollar is strong against the euro and the pound right now so it's a good time to buy from europe , you'd still be looking at $150 with shipping though .

It's hard to pin down those fluctuating currencies.

 

[retic1959]

It's hard to pin down those fluctuating currencies.

I just use a currency converter , this ones simple . Convert 100 EUR to USD - 100 Euro to US Dollar - Exchange Rate Calculator and Currency Converter

 

[Bronze]

I just use a currency converter , this ones simple . Convert 100 EUR to USD - 100 Euro to US Dollar - Exchange Rate Calculator and Currency Converter

Well, I meant the constantly fluctuating currencies are always changing the price of the atty. It was like $160 when it was first introduced. But with currency fluctuations it appears it has dropped the price a bit. Wait a few weeks and it will probably be back up again.

 

[retic1959]

Well, I meant the constantly fluctuating currencies are always changing the price of the atty. It was like $160 when it was first introduced. But with currency fluctuations it appears it has dropped the price a bit. Wait a few weeks and it will probably be back up again.

Possibly , I don't remember the price in euros when it first came out , just remember choking on the cost in dollars .

 

[Bronze]

Possibly , I don't remember the price in euros when it first came out , just remember choking on the cost in dollars .

Me too!

 

[Pappy]

Kkay, I really doubt that the manufacturers are sitting around trying to figure out how to minimize their profits.

I think they price them sky high for two or three reasons:

(1) as Bronze said, to maximize profits while they can (i.e., before the clone makers start making $9.99 versions of it), and

(2) to create a sense of exclusivity and quality that will help sell them and their OTHER products to people who want to only buy the "best", and

(3) another possibility is that these small time manufacturers may not have the capacity to produce large volumes, so they might as well make the most money possible on each one.

This discussion reminded me of the old joke where one manager says "Dang, we are losing money every time we sell one of these." And the other manager says "Yep, but we're making up for it in volume."

 

[retic1959]

Kkay, I really doubt that the manufacturers are sitting around trying to figure out how to minimize their profits. I think they price them sky high for two or three reasons: (1) as Bronze said, to maximize profits while they can (i.e., before the clone makers start making $9.99 versions of it), and (2) to create a sense of exclusivity and quality that will help sell them and their OTHER products to people who want to only buy the "best", and (3) another possibility is that these small time manufacturers may not have the capacity to produce large volumes, so they might as well make the most money possible on each one. This discussion reminded me of the old joke where one manager says "Dang, we are losing money every time we sell one of these." And the other manager says "Yep, but we're making up for it in volume."

Possibilllity (4) , some are Shysters .