lets talk oxidization.

[Boden]

Here's a link to the post on ECF about The Vaper and the Petar K Method for setting up wick/coil.

I've seen enough.

It's an oxidized wick and coil. When you "burn" the wick with a butane lighter (1,970°C) you are oxidizing the wick. A lighter does not do as good a job as an torch but plenty hot none the less. When you fire the coil you are annealing/oxidizing the coil.

 

[Boden]

That certainly would help.

Yes, it would.

 

[chuckie]

yeah, I did the drill bit thing. I'm giving up on it for now, I've got some 500ss mesh otw and I'm debating buying a 'real' genesis style atty instead of using a DuD.

All my Gen. attys work the same.I've come to really appreciate my clone due to it's size and simplicity.I wish these were available 3 years ago for $25 instead of the $100 I paid.

 

[LucidAce]

I've seen enough.

It's an oxidized wick and coil. When you "burn" the wick with a butane lighter (1,970°C) you are oxidizing the wick. A lighter does not do as good a job as an torch but plenty hot none the less. When you fire the coil you are annealing/oxidizing the coil.

That's more or less what it seemed like to me as well and is likely why many people will talk about it with " " around unoxidized when referring to that method.

 

[mwa102464]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote BJ43 =I repeat this has nothing to do with if it is a 1 ohm coil or a 3 ohm coil. It has to do with the resistance of the wire at the point it is next to the SS wick, a high resistance wire like a 38g will short easier than a low resistance wire like a 28g. It is direct relationship between two unequal resistances, the wire and the oxidized SS wick, has nothing to do with how many wraps or ohms the coil is. The higher the difference at any given point, the less likely a short.
A 1.6 ohm 36g coil will short easier than a 1.6 ohm 28g coil on the same oxidized SS wick.[/QUOTE]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It's something you just said this BJ43,,, The last couple of days I have been playing with different resistance wires, making them at the same ohm coils using different wick materials. Trying to experiment with " Flavor " & " Vapor " it's actually something when you make say a 1.5ohm coil using say 34Awg Kanthal and making another coil with say 28 or 30 Awg wire @ 1.5ohms same ohms just different wire. There is a difference, but I'm not ready to go there just yet about it, but interesting results.

 

[BJ43]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modding-forum/342713-28g-coils-3.html#post7576703

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote BJ43 =I repeat this has nothing to do with if it is a 1 ohm coil or a 3 ohm coil. It has to do with the resistance of the wire at the point it is next to the SS wick, a high resistance wire like a 38g will short easier than a low resistance wire like a 28g. It is direct relationship between two unequal resistances, the wire and the oxidized SS wick, has nothing to do with how many wraps or ohms the coil is. The higher the difference at any given point, the less likely a short.
A 1.6 ohm 36g coil will short easier than a 1.6 ohm 28g coil on the same oxidized SS wick.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It's something you just said this BJ43,,, The last couple of days I have been playing with different resistance wires, making them at the same ohm coils using different wick materials. Trying to experiment with " Flavor " & " Vapor " it's actually something when you make say a 1.5ohm coil using say 34Awg Kanthal and making another coil with say 28 or 30 Awg wire @ 1.5ohms same ohms just different wire. There is a difference, but I'm not ready to go there just yet about it, but interesting results.[/QUOTE]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modding-forum/342713-28g-coils-3.html#post7576703

 

[Boden]

Until my current analysis is complete, I do not endorse the use of Oxidized SS wicks. I would suggest that they not be used.

 

[BuzzKilla]

 

[junkman]

 

[zoiDman]

Until my current analysis is complete, I do not endorse the use of Oxidized SS wicks. I would suggest that they not be used.

 

[Tonybee]

This has been a very interesting thread and I will use it for reference when experimenting with my wick and coil setups. BTW I couldn't believe how expensive SS mesh is. 100' x 48" roll of 325 x 325 equates to $2000.00

 

[BuzzKilla]

BTW I couldn't believe how expensive SS mesh is. 100' x 48" roll of 325 x 325 equates to $2000.00

a roll that size can make 57600 wicks(40x25mm).... @ $0.034 each that is not expensive....

did you want to supply all of ECF for a year?

 

[asdaq]

Sounds a bit like Mcmaster's pricing. Just wait till they ding you on shipping that 100' long roll.

Boden, you got some cards to show yet? Because we are calling your hand.

 

[Boden]

"You may get some of the Chromium Oxides but the ratio would be small compared to the Iron Oxides because of the resistance chromium has to oxidization until it reaches temperatures that would melt Iron" Boden

This is wrong.

After further research I have found that, when mixed with iron, chromium oxidizes at a much lower temperature. If you heat SS above 700degF the preferential layer changes from iron oxide rich to chromium oxide rich.

I need to consult with others before I can say more. In the meantime I would urge caution as some of the chromium oxides can be hazardous.

 

[zoiDman]

"You may get some of the Chromium Oxides but the ratio would be small compared to the Iron Oxides because of the resistance chromium has to oxidization until it reaches temperatures that would melt Iron" Boden

This is wrong.

After further research I have found that, when mixed with iron, chromium oxidizes at a much lower temperature. If you heat SS above 700degF the preferential layer changes from iron oxide rich to chromium oxide rich.

I need to consult with others before I can say more. In the meantime I would urge caution as some of the chromium oxides can be hazardous.

Please do provide a link when you find that Chromium Oxides are Hazardous.

I think you have it Backwards. It's the Iron Oxides which can be Hazardous and the Chromium Oxides which are considered safe. But I'll wait to see what you come up with Link wise.

BTW - If Chromium Oxides are Not Safe, why is just about ALL Tools used in Medical, Dental, Tattoo, etc made out of Stainless Steel versus POS (Plain Old Steel)?

 

[junkman]

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923471

Potential Acute Health Effects: Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation.

Potential Chronic Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (sensitizer). CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: A4
(Not classifiable for human) by ACGIH, 3 (Not classifiable for human.) by IARC. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for
mammalian somatic cells. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL
TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be toxic to upper respiratory tract, skin. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the
substance can produce target organs damage.

Boiling Point: 4000°C (7232°F)
Melting Point: 2435°C (4415°F)
Critical Temperature: Not available.
Specific Gravity: 5.21 (Water = 1)
Vapor Pressure: Not applicable.
Vapor Density: Not available.
Volatility: Not available.
Odor Threshold: Not availab
Stability: The product is stable.
Instability Temperature: Not available.
Conditions of Instability: Incompatible materials
Incompatibility with various substances: Reactive with oxidizing agents.
Corrosivity: Non-corrosive in presence of glass.
Special Remarks on Reactivity:
Hygroscopic. Turns brown on heating, but reverts to green color on cooling. Can react with molten alkali at very high
temperatures under oxidizing conditions. May react with Chlorine trifluoride, lithium, nitroalkanes, oxygen difluoride, rubidium
acetylide, and other strong oxidizers. A vigorous reaction occurs between oxygen difluoride and chromium oxide. Chromium
(III) compounds are reduced to Chromium (II) compounds by hypophosphites, concentrated perchloric acid, sodium
bismuthate, permanganate, electrolysis, reducing metals such as zinc, magnesium and aluminum in acid solution. In basic
solution, Cr(III) is readily oxidized to CrO4(-2) by hypclorite, hyprobromite, peroxide, and oxygen under pressure at high
temperature. Chromium oxide and rubidium acetylide react exothermically.
Special Remarks on Corrosivity: Not available.
Polymerization: Will not occur.
Section 11: Toxicological Information
Routes of Entry: Inhalation. Ingestion.
Toxicity to Animals:
LD50: Not available. LC50: Not available.
Chronic Effects on Humans:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: A4 (Not classifiable for human or animal.) by ACGIH, 3 (Not classifiable for human.) by IARC.
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. May cause damage to
the following organs: upper respiratory tract, skin.

 

[junkman]

11. Toxicological information
11.1. Information on toxicological effects
Acute toxicity
Stainless steels are not acute toxic.

Irritation
The exposure route of concern is inhalation....
...The UK Health & Safety Executive´s publication "Control of fume arising from electric arc welding of stainless steel" indicates that there is some risk of developing asthma from compounds of chromium VI and nickel in the fume from stainless steel welding. However, stainless steel welding fume did not meet the European Union classification criteria required for a substance capable of causing asthma.

MSDS for stainless steels

 

[junkman]

I don't see the stainless wicks getting all that hot, so probably ok. But while we are on this subject, has anyone looked into the coil wire? Kanthal or Nichrome?

 

[MadmanMacguyver]

there are several posts/threads you can find on kanthal vs Nichrome...in my exp kanthal provides its own oxide layer to insulate itself due to the aluminum content...nichrome does not...also Kanthal is much stronger/more durable...

BTW nice thread...very informative even if overthought...meh...like zoid I like overthought...less chance for mistakes and much greater learning potential...

 

[KYFlyer67]

I think this is a very important point. If you can oxidize the wick AND the coil, you have double protection against shorts. I haven't used kanthal, so I can't say how well it oxidizes. However, I have used both NC 60 and NC 80. What I've discovered is that NC 60 oxidizes very well and NC 80 hardly oxidizes at all. In my experience shorts are much less likely with NC 60 than with NC 80. I think the reason for this (although I can't prove it) is iron. NC 60 contains around 22% iron while NC 80 contains no iron.

Has anyone else noticed less shorting with NC 60 coils than NC 80 coils?