Lets talk sweeteners.

[uthinkofsomething]

Ok so, I'm just starting diy, have not bought flavorings, nic, vg and pg yet.
I've picked out four recipes to start with and know what flavoring to get, and of course the recipes include a sweetener or two. The flavorings I will get exactly what the recipe calls for ( tpa, cap, etc ), but sweeteners concern me.
I will be making 2 to 3 different vg pg or nic level juices. I vape high vg (max) 3mg, a friend does 6mg in a subohm tank so 70vg there, and my wife does mtl 50/50ish 12mg.
I know for myself, max vg in an rta or rda, I don't like a lot of commercial juices out there due to how outrageously sweet they are and how quickly some eliquids caramelize on my coils, and it seems vg is kind of sweet on it's own.
I'm concerned for one that a recipe might not need the sweetener for me, but maybe some do. How do I know? Experience?
And so, let's talk sweeteners in general. I hate the taste of fake sweeteners I grew up with, like saccharin and aspartame, yak. And to me everything I've ever had with a good amount of sucralose has a noticeable chemical flavor.
What are some options, how strong are they, and how can I know how much to alter a recipes sweetener based on pg vg content? And thanks for reading

 

[DeloresRose]

I’ve tried so many sweeteners I can’t even begin... but my favorite is Cap super sweet.

My advice is, make a test without it (sweetener that is) and see if it tastes good to you.

I like my juice fairly sweet, but it’s still nowhere near as sweet and gooey as commercial juice generally is. A few of my recipes don’t require any sweetener at all, some just a fraction of a percentage, but candy flavors sometimes I use 1-2%.

And I don’t see any coil Life difference really, still better than with bought juice.

 

[stols001]

There are a bunch of different sweeteners, like the newest one that sounds like an antibiotic, erithyrotol or something (sorry) that sweetener is really really strong so if you don't like the "taste" as much, well it might be an option.

I use capella Supersweet as well, when I use sweetener but usually in a ratio of one drop per 30 ml or something. That is sucralose. I don't much mind the taste of sucralose, so I use it.

Ethyl maltol is a "hidden" sweeter although I think you can buy it on its own, but it's often found in flavors like cotton candy, meringue, and marshmallow. For me those flavors (and maybe it's the ethyl maltol doing it, IDK) can kind of add mouthfeel and round out a mix. They also can mute certain flavors, so you want to make sure you aren't adding too much. I will typically use between 0.5--1% of those, if I do.

Finally the good news on sweeteners, especially if you don't like over sweetened juice is that you don't have to steep them really at all.

So I'd say maybe start your mixes without sweetener, steep them, and see how you like the result. If needed, you can always add sweetener, and you can do it ONE DROP at a time. That should give you a sense for what will work-- for you. I too dislike really over sweetened or chemical tasting eliquid, and given that you are sensitive to sucralose (I quite like it) there is zero things wrong with starting out without a sweetener, deciding to use an ethyl maltol containing juice as "your" sweetener, and etc.

You can also customize your juices for others by sweetening theirs a little more if they like that. You can have them go thorough the SAME tasting and sweetening process as for YOU, if you so desire, etc.

When I make eliquid for folks who are used to commercial liquids more than me, I just ask them to come pick out a few dominant flavors, and then over flavor and over sweetnen the heck out of them (for me) do a quick and dirty heat steep, and send them on their way. I haven't gotten complaints (and they are the types of folks who WOULD complain happily, LOL) so I know that I can do things right-- for me, and do things right-- for others. Some of that involves learning preference and whatnot.

Best of luck.

 

[BrotherBob]

What are some options, how strong are they, and how can I know how much to alter a recipes sweetener based on pg vg content?

I'll often first use a natural non sweetener(s) workarounds/flavors rather than the standard sweeteners.These flavors tend to be more natural and enhance the vape rather than detract from it. If the recipe calls for a standard flavor sweetener, I most often change it to 1% max(CA Super Sweet 0.5%) and only to satisfy the original recipe poster. I try to remember that a sweetener is an enhancer not a main (predominate).
As to consideration of the pg vg content: some say VG is sweeter than PG, it's up to the mixer.
Could check out:
(Sweeteners for DIY e liquids. Some better alternatives.)
Sweetening and additives | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[bombastinator]

...I'm concerned for one that a recipe might not need the sweetener for me, but maybe some do. How do I know? Experience?...

Yep. I suggest small batches.

 

[Letitia]

For your high vg mixes I would suggest trying to sweeten with other flavors. Pear, marshmallow, meringue, strawberry, lychee, honeysuckle, etc. All of these can add a sweet note at a low percentage without intruding in the mix. I personally dislike super sweet from any brand. I use VTA sugar cane (Vape Train or Vape Train Australia). It isn't as sweet and doesn't mute as badly as super sweet, also easier to work with imo. If I use it .25-.5% is enough to highlight without overwhelming. For my cousin I use 1-1.5 % as she still likes sweet juices. From what I've read the newer Sugar Daddy sweetener is good. More middle of the road like the VTA. There are so many options out there for sweeteners I'm happy that I came across one that works well for myself and the others I mix for.

 

[IDJoel]

I am another proponent of trying a new (to me) recipe without any sweetener first.

One thing I haven't read, in this thread yet; is a sweetener is easily added to an existing mix, and requires no additional aging (aka. "steeping") time.

As for "which one;" that is a question that can only really be answered, by trying different ones yourself.

Sugar (sucrose), and sugar derivatives (fructose, glucose, etc.), are not vaper-friendly (both coil gunking, and health concerns). It is a generally accepted best-practice to avoid these whenever possible.

Sucralose (CAP Super Sweet, TFA Sweetener, etc.) are the more common ones you will find being used in recipes.

Stevia is not quite as common as sucralose, but has its advocates (including me). Be cautious if you are looking at grocery store brands; as many contain extra "stuff" that vapers may not want to vape. I think it is better to buy from a reputable DIY supplier and avoid the undesired components.

For those with a hardcore sweet-tooth; the new kid on the block, that seems to be getting a lot of love is Sugar Daddy Sweeteners. This is a blend of multiple sweetening agents, that is supposed to taste like real sugar, and no chemical off-notes. I have read that this one can give a serious sugar lips experience. They offer three flavored versions (cinnamon, cool, and vanilla) along with the traditional regular. Wizard Labs is the first vendor I saw offering it; but I am sure there are others, so check around for price and availability.

There are a few others, that fall more into the niche category, like erythritol, and even monk fruit; but I see very little discussion supporting their use.

Finally, I guess I have to mention ethyl maltol and/or maltol (aka EM).<sigh> I really don't like to suggest EM be used as a sweetener in the classic sense... especially to new/novice mixers. Yes, it can give a suggestion of sweet; but it is more useful (and commonly used for) enhancing mouthfeel. It can give a vape a thicker/more-dense mouthfeel. It is also useful for softening, or rounding off some of the harsh notes in certain mixes.

The real problem with EM; is it can be a serious flavor killer, when too much is used. To make matters worse, ethyl maltol, and/or maltol, can frequently be found already present in quite a number of common flavor concentrates. Combine the EM in the concentrate(s), with consciously added EM, and before you realize it, you have too much... and your recipe suffers.

This can lead to a classic Newb DIY error: too much EM ---> poor tasting results/lack of flavor ---> add more flavor ---> tastes worse ---> add more EM ---> tastes outright foul ---> get frustrated and quit.

EM is strictly a "Last Resort" additive in my personal DIY mixing (and I never reach for it as a "sweetener").

 

[uthinkofsomething]

@Letitia and @IDJoel , both of your replies were very helpful. Everyone else too, thanks.

 

[tara81]

For some reason I find EM helps round out tpa double chocolate. I normally use FW sweetener or ooo powdered sugar in donut recipes for more sweetness. Cap super sweet has an aftertaste to me, maybe it's just too much sucralose, and so does any stevia sweeteners.

 

[Susaz]

There are a bunch of different sweeteners, like the newest one that sounds like an antibiotic, erithyrotol or something (sorry) that sweetener is really really strong so if you don't like the "taste" as much, well it might be an option.

I use capella Supersweet as well, when I use sweetener but usually in a ratio of one drop per 30 ml or something. That is sucralose. I don't much mind the taste of sucralose, so I use it.

Ethyl maltol is a "hidden" sweeter although I think you can buy it on its own, but it's often found in flavors like cotton candy, meringue, and marshmallow. For me those flavors (and maybe it's the ethyl maltol doing it, IDK) can kind of add mouthfeel and round out a mix. They also can mute certain flavors, so you want to make sure you aren't adding too much. I will typically use between 0.5--1% of those, if I do.

Finally the good news on sweeteners, especially if you don't like over sweetened juice is that you don't have to steep them really at all.

So I'd say maybe start your mixes without sweetener, steep them, and see how you like the result. If needed, you can always add sweetener, and you can do it ONE DROP at a time. That should give you a sense for what will work-- for you. I too dislike really over sweetened or chemical tasting eliquid, and given that you are sensitive to sucralose (I quite like it) there is zero things wrong with starting out without a sweetener, deciding to use an ethyl maltol containing juice as "your" sweetener, and etc.

You can also customize your juices for others by sweetening theirs a little more if they like that. You can have them go thorough the SAME tasting and sweetening process as for YOU, if you so desire, etc.

When I make eliquid for folks who are used to commercial liquids more than me, I just ask them to come pick out a few dominant flavors, and then over flavor and over sweetnen the heck out of them (for me) do a quick and dirty heat steep, and send them on their way. I haven't gotten complaints (and they are the types of folks who WOULD complain happily, LOL) so I know that I can do things right-- for me, and do things right-- for others. Some of that involves learning preference and whatnot.

Best of luck.

Xylitol? It's great for your teeth! I wish I could find some here. It's contained in most chewing gum.

 

[stols001]

No, here's a post on it, that I dug up, I think it is also a sugar alcohol but someone in this thread is comparing erythritol to Xylitol.

Erythritol as a sweetener in liquids

Anna

 

[uthinkofsomething]

I ended getting some fa sweetener and some sugar daddy regular. For my own juice there will be a minimum or no sweeteners. At some point I will make a tiny batch of unflavored with sweetener to see what they really taste like. I'm less concerned with sucrolose than I was at first, seems like it's probably in a lot of juice I've been ok with. All about the mix, right?