I've purchased a few LI policies over the years. Every one of them has used a blood test..........
You may want to go 7 days before being tested.
Life Insurance, non-smoker policy, they test for nic, can I still vape and pass?
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I've purchased a few LI policies over the years. Every one of them has used a blood test..........
You may want to go 7 days before being tested.
I'm not so sure nicotine e-juice can really be called a non-tobacco product. The nicotine is extracted from tobacco. There really isn't enough nic in any of the edible nightshade plants to make extraction worthwhile... Jimsonweed is the only plant besides tobacco that produces enough nicotine to extract, but it contains other very dangerous alkaloids, so no one does it... So no matter what, nicotine will always be mainly a tobacco product.
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I've read *somewhere*, need to find it again, that the testers have the ability to check for another chemical which only occurs in natural tobacco plants, you can only get it into your body by smoking/ingesting tobacco plant matter. It is something that IS NOT included in the nic gum or patches.
<googling>
can't seem to find it anymore, about all I can find is that the stuff they check for cotinine (which has been mentioned in previous posts) has a 20hour half-life, and should be undetectable in your system (both blood and urine) 7-10 days after your last exposure.
Since all of the talk revolves around "half-life" the concentration in your body you start from has some effect on the longevity in your system, but not more than 3-4 extra days.
Here is some info lifted from wikipedia, I've checked their citations and they appear legit, found similar info in other places (Mayo Clinic mainly):
People who smoke menthol cigarettes may retain cotinine in the blood for a longer period because menthol can compete with enzymatic metabolism of cotinine
Genetic encoding of liver enzymes may also play a role, as African Americans routinely register higher blood cotinine levels than Caucasians.
<snip>
Regarding your question about nrc/nrt: On my LI application they asked me if I was a non-smoker (I said yes), then they asked if I had been a non-smoker for ONE YEAR. I think this question is supposed to cover anybody who was on nrc/nrt. Nowhere I've seen does anyone in the health community advocate sticking to nrc/nrt for 12 months after your last tobacco product. Now you're just biting on the gum for enjoyment, not to replace tobacco.
I see that the word "may" popping up everywhere, so YMMV.
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It would be an uphill battle with these folks to convince them that vaping is fundamentally different than smoking analogs. Better yet, you'd not only have to convince them, but their health insurance company (if they offer coverage). They are likely getting a good discount on their insurance because all of the people they cover with their group policy are by definition non-smokers.
My company offers a $50/mo discount on their group insurance if you sign up as a non smoker (and can pass their test). Have to re-up every year on this I believe. I haven't yet gone that far, but I'm sure my wife will press for it since it amounts to $600 less we would pay each year for not smoking.
All of this discussion has made one thing very clear: MUST FIND GOOD PACIFIER FLAVORS!!! I've got 11 months before I can 're-up', so I'll have to find alot of flavors to get me through the 2+ weeks. I'm one of those vapers that doesn't want to lose the nic cuz I like the TH, will prolly never go to 0nic all of the time (unless I find some REALLY good flavors).
In my experience it is cheaper getting life insurance quotes online. Some of the bigger companies offer discounts when ordering online, because it is less work for them. But to be safe you could compare quotes online, pick the best offer and try a local agency to see if they can match it or do better.
I recommend this site for online comparing: http://www.quotes-center.com/life-insurance-premium-calculator
I recommend this site for online comparing: http://www.quotes-center.com/life-insurance-premium-calculator
I first tried getting quotes from zander insurance (I'm a dave ramsey listener), once I got those I hit up selectquote to compare. went with zander for the wife and sq for myself. the spread wasn't too bad, but sq offered better deals to smokers (which according to their definitions, I still am for another 11mos).
I would like to share some information about the subject of testing that I've had a personal experience with in the past!
I think it was around 1997, I had volunteered for a NRT study and they would give each person $75.00 if you sustained from cigarettes for 90 days and used nicotine gum in the process. A long story shortened, I did get the $75.00, however shortly after (thinking I was strong enough to go back on the gum) I lit up a cigarette and smoked since I started vaping a month ago.
They tested each person with a device that you blew into. I believe the device tested for Carbon Monoxide (particles of combustion).
I just thought I would throw the above information out there!
In your case, I would call a different insurance company to feel them out and question them to find out what ways they test for smokers, and talk to them about vaping to see what they think and how they handle it.
I think the response would be that there is not enough testing on vaping and that you would still be considered a smoker, Which really sucks IMO.
I think it was around 1997, I had volunteered for a NRT study and they would give each person $75.00 if you sustained from cigarettes for 90 days and used nicotine gum in the process. A long story shortened, I did get the $75.00, however shortly after (thinking I was strong enough to go back on the gum) I lit up a cigarette and smoked since I started vaping a month ago.
They tested each person with a device that you blew into. I believe the device tested for Carbon Monoxide (particles of combustion).
I just thought I would throw the above information out there!
In your case, I would call a different insurance company to feel them out and question them to find out what ways they test for smokers, and talk to them about vaping to see what they think and how they handle it.
I think the response would be that there is not enough testing on vaping and that you would still be considered a smoker, Which really sucks IMO.
I'll keep adding more info as I find it to this thread, may go quiet for some time, since I have 11mos to wait for my next evaluation to determine if my LI company will then consider me a non-smoker (for at least a year).
The short plan is to get comfortable with some 0 nic flavors so that I'll be able to go at least two weeks with no nic intake, before the test. I'm not holding out hope that I'll *prefer* 0 nic by then, the TH is just too much of a draw for me!
I will also be taking the "non-smoker" discount for my employer's health insurance, to get that $600/yr discount. On both counts, I will let you all know how it works out.
The best news is that now I have a PV, I'm 100% certain I'll never go back to analogs (as long as I can keep my supplies stocked)! There is no incentive whatsoever, only thing the analogs have over vaping is the ability to pick up the "software" anywhere, and my office is right next to a convenience store.
The short plan is to get comfortable with some 0 nic flavors so that I'll be able to go at least two weeks with no nic intake, before the test. I'm not holding out hope that I'll *prefer* 0 nic by then, the TH is just too much of a draw for me!
I will also be taking the "non-smoker" discount for my employer's health insurance, to get that $600/yr discount. On both counts, I will let you all know how it works out.
The best news is that now I have a PV, I'm 100% certain I'll never go back to analogs (as long as I can keep my supplies stocked)! There is no incentive whatsoever, only thing the analogs have over vaping is the ability to pick up the "software" anywhere, and my office is right next to a convenience store.
That's a good point. When you follow the nhs stop smoking service they test you with the carbon monoxide blowey in thingey and can see if you've 'had a ...' and how recently etc, now a pv would not make any reading and surely the LI is looking for people killing themselves with carcinogens and not nicotine SO.... how hard would it be to work out some sort of procedure involving getting signed off as 'clean' by the doctor blowing into a detector thingy and having that faxed/sent to the LI company. I'd even be prepared to do it yearly personally as the hassle would be worth the saving.
ANYWAY - I havent got LI nor intend to just yet, but could someone voice this option to a doctor or LI company and let us know what gives?
PS for those in usa, I don't know much about usa so I don't know if you have an nhs or even the stop smoking service thingy in pharmacies that we have in uk, but im SURE there is something along the same lines with a different name, and if not the doctors will surely have the same kit anyway.
This thing you blow into is the key I'm sure of it, the pharmacy take you off the course if you've 'cheated' (smoked) since they last saw you, and from the readout they can tell you how many and when etc, (to a fair margin of accuracy) - THIS MUST BE THE ANSWER TO LIFE INSURANCE POLICIES
Yes I understand they don't use this method CURRENTLY, but lets start the ball rolling because vaping is getting bigger and they need to be ready for vapers! Lets be the ones to put the procedures in place for future vapers to get LI with no hassle, this is a simple simple solution.
What do you guys think?
ANYWAY - I havent got LI nor intend to just yet, but could someone voice this option to a doctor or LI company and let us know what gives?
PS for those in usa, I don't know much about usa so I don't know if you have an nhs or even the stop smoking service thingy in pharmacies that we have in uk, but im SURE there is something along the same lines with a different name, and if not the doctors will surely have the same kit anyway.
This thing you blow into is the key I'm sure of it, the pharmacy take you off the course if you've 'cheated' (smoked) since they last saw you, and from the readout they can tell you how many and when etc, (to a fair margin of accuracy) - THIS MUST BE THE ANSWER TO LIFE INSURANCE POLICIES
Yes I understand they don't use this method CURRENTLY, but lets start the ball rolling because vaping is getting bigger and they need to be ready for vapers! Lets be the ones to put the procedures in place for future vapers to get LI with no hassle, this is a simple simple solution.
What do you guys think?
Well, it's obviously the correct approach.
Life insurance companies probably don't want to make any effort to change their testing procedures.
And if they haven't done so to accomodate people using nicotine patches, gum, or lozenges, then probably not ecigs.
At least not until we are a big enough population to pay attention to anyway.
....so lets get shouting
other nrt's had like a 7percent success rate, that couldn't have produced enough people to listen to and it wouldn't have been as much of a point before pv's.
We have the numbers on our side, we can make them listen.
Sorry no kevin costner speech prepared but lets get together on this one and make a positive change!
My husband is an insurance agent specializing in life insurance. I have not smoked since November, and when 11 months is up, I intend to switch to 0 nic juice for a month and then reapply for a non-smoking rate. That is what he recommended, and I think that is the best option we have right now. Since insurance companies charge more money for nicotine users, I think they will love being able to charge more for someone who is lower risk--more profit for them. So probably not much luck getting them to change for a zillion years.
Not that I disagree, but right now we're awfully busy shouting for them to just let us keep our electronic cigarettes.
Maybe when they decide that we can keep them, we'll start shouting for them to treat us fairly.
Not that I disagree, but right now we're awfully busy shouting for them to just let us keep our electronic cigarettes.
Maybe when they decide that we can keep them, we'll start shouting for them to treat us fairly.
You make a fair point, even with your generalisation & grouping of 'them' for two different authoritarian groups
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If I didn't generalize, I'm afraid my post would have turned into two paragraphs.You make a fair point, even with your generalisation & grouping of 'them' for two different authoritarian groups
I just think its a shame us having to cold turkey our nic to get around procedures and policies that are not truly intended for vapers, the unfairness of it kills me
Any chance you could fly my idea past your hubby? Just to get a feeler...
DC2 makes a good point though and I had forgotton about the ongoing legal schmaschmoo surrounding pv usage, we need to win that battle first, support the CASAA!!!
What an interesting question, today I went for a blood test for my work insurance also, and the test does check for "Cotine".
I have been assuming as I am vaping nicotine, the insurance will still consider me as a smoker.
It will be interesting to see the result, I am vaping 24mg juice, and going through 2 ml a day, although I am dead certain I am not getting the level of nicotine I did when I actually smoked a pack a day.
this should be interesting, I have not had a ciggerette ( well 1 ) in 17 days, and that single ( and terrible ) one was over a week ago.
I have been assuming as I am vaping nicotine, the insurance will still consider me as a smoker.
It will be interesting to see the result, I am vaping 24mg juice, and going through 2 ml a day, although I am dead certain I am not getting the level of nicotine I did when I actually smoked a pack a day.
this should be interesting, I have not had a ciggerette ( well 1 ) in 17 days, and that single ( and terrible ) one was over a week ago.
slap a patch on your arm before you go in. make it the lowest number nicotine available. then show em when ya walk in so they will note it on the paperwork.
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