I've been a rafter sitter since July. I came down, went to "New Member Forum" and posted the obligatory 5 messages so that I could ask this question: I use syringes and 14ga blunt needles. When using a 1ml syringe to mix flavors at low % (like .1ml or .2ml), does anybody try to take into account the amount in the needle?
Liquid in needle
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I only use 14ga for VG, I use a 20ga for flavorings and I don't really think what's in a 20 is that big of a deal. As long as I always do the same thing, my results will be repeatably (good or bad lol). In the end that's all that matters to me.
Cheers,
Steve
Cheers,
Steve
Do an experiment.
Take your 1ml syringe with needle (even though the syringe will fit into nearly every flavoring bottle known to man, go ahead and use a needle) and suck up some colored water, twice while the needles stays in the colored water.
Fully depress plunger into a cup.
Remove plunger while holding it over another cup. What you see in this cup is what was in the needle that doesn't come out when you depress the plunger.
You can do the same thing with a straw in water. Put the straw into a liquid and seal the end on top with your finger and lift the straw straight up. Remove your finger and the the straw will release the contents. The smaller the straw and the thicker the liquid, the more the straw will hold without loss. Now think of it with a 10 ga. needle and VG....it just stays there unless you allow air to come into the top.
Take your 1ml syringe with needle (even though the syringe will fit into nearly every flavoring bottle known to man, go ahead and use a needle) and suck up some colored water, twice while the needles stays in the colored water.
Fully depress plunger into a cup.
Remove plunger while holding it over another cup. What you see in this cup is what was in the needle that doesn't come out when you depress the plunger.
You can do the same thing with a straw in water. Put the straw into a liquid and seal the end on top with your finger and lift the straw straight up. Remove your finger and the the straw will release the contents. The smaller the straw and the thicker the liquid, the more the straw will hold without loss. Now think of it with a 10 ga. needle and VG....it just stays there unless you allow air to come into the top.
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Thanks Steve,
You probably just cost me around $20.......Ok I need to order 20ga needles, now lets see what other flavors do I need to get the shipping costs to be reasonable.
You probably just cost me around $20.......Ok I need to order 20ga needles, now lets see what other flavors do I need to get the shipping costs to be reasonable.
I wasn't saying you need to order 20ga. My smaller syringes came with them, but what Hoosier says is true. If you don't remove the plunger what's in the needle, stays in the needle so no worries
Cheers,
Steve
Thanks Hoosier,
It makes me feel good to have a celebrity give me a good answer to my first real post.
It makes me feel good to have a celebrity give me a good answer to my first real post.
I presumed, maybe wrongly, that the amount in the needle is already accounted for in the markings on the syringe. I also presumed that it was irrelevant if I was presuming wrongly--lol. Everything will be off by that same percentage which makes it the same percentage.
That was my assumption too! But this guy weighs his ingredients on a 0.01g digital scale, and figured out what was what. It made total sense w/ my 1st batch having extra flavoring, cuz I used 2 diff flavors and even took a 2nd syringe-full of 1 of them, not to mention I thought I'd be a bit generous to begin w/ on my measurements lol.
My 4" 14ga needle holds about .5ml.
I've developed a way to accurately measure the liquid:
Draw the liquid to the intended mark
Remove needle and invert (point it skyward)
Draw air into the syringe to clear the needle
With syringe still inerted, push liquid level to the 0 mark
Turn the syringe back downward into the container the liquid was drawn from
Depress plunger to the intended mark
You should have your exact measurement at this point
When adding this to your mix, you should empty the syringe, and then draw air into the syringe and empty again, so the complete measurement is evacuated.
I've developed a way to accurately measure the liquid:
Draw the liquid to the intended mark
Remove needle and invert (point it skyward)
Draw air into the syringe to clear the needle
With syringe still inerted, push liquid level to the 0 mark
Turn the syringe back downward into the container the liquid was drawn from
Depress plunger to the intended mark
You should have your exact measurement at this point
When adding this to your mix, you should empty the syringe, and then draw air into the syringe and empty again, so the complete measurement is evacuated.
Thanks Dougiestyle
This seems like something I could use .. but for sure b/4 my normal evening compliment of beverages during a mixing session. I’m only .... about this when mixing 5ml flavor testing. 100ml % give or take who cares.
This seems like something I could use .. but for sure b/4 my normal evening compliment of beverages during a mixing session. I’m only .... about this when mixing 5ml flavor testing. 100ml % give or take who cares.
I agree. I generally mix 180ml batches. For flavors, I use a smaller needle, but for the PG and VG, I use a large syringe with a larger needle. By "tipping" it up and levelling the quantity, with the hash marks, I'm sure of the mix.
I'm actually not that particular, as long as it's vapable.
I'm actually not that particular, as long as it's vapable.
I have been using an eyedropper that I know is 20 drops to a ml when adding small amounts. -Just my 
Capellas and FA flavors come with dropper bottles, I measure each flavor by the drip to equal 1 ml. I then write that in the bottle of flavor. I know then the amount of drops per ml for each flavor.
The answer is: KISS. My apologies to the LGBT community, but it's not the kiss I am talking about. The extra plumbing would confuse me.
All you need is the volume of a cylinder. You can read the ID of your standard hypodermic needles from a chart (not sure that I can post a link, but just Google: id syringe needle size); the rest is a simple calculation. Of course, you also need the length.
I would be willing to bet a significant amount of money that I could come up with a better and faster answer than any measurement technique suggested.
All you need is the volume of a cylinder. You can read the ID of your standard hypodermic needles from a chart (not sure that I can post a link, but just Google: id syringe needle size); the rest is a simple calculation. Of course, you also need the length.
I would be willing to bet a significant amount of money that I could come up with a better and faster answer than any measurement technique suggested.
No the markings on a syringe do not take into consideration what a needle may contain. The simple reason is that needles come in a variety of lengths and gauges, thus they would also vary in the amount of liquid they would hold. So there is no sure way that they could compensate for the needle's contents unless the needle was an integral part of the syringe.
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There's a simple solution.
Let's say you're working with a 1mL syringe. Draw up a tiny bit of air (let's say 0.1mL). Then start drawing your flavoring into your syringe. When the *liquid* in the syringe reaches <whatever amount you want>, then inject it into <whatever you're mixing>. The tiny bit of air you first drew in will push out whatever little bit of flavoring is in the needle.
Let's say you're working with a 1mL syringe. Draw up a tiny bit of air (let's say 0.1mL). Then start drawing your flavoring into your syringe. When the *liquid* in the syringe reaches <whatever amount you want>, then inject it into <whatever you're mixing>. The tiny bit of air you first drew in will push out whatever little bit of flavoring is in the needle.
I think the simpler solution is to just not use a needle. A 1ml syringe fits into nearly every bottle and keeping the tip immersed is pretty easy, except for Cap's bottles, but that's why I have my most used Cap flavorings in glass bottles which I can see into unlike the standard Cap bottle.
I don't use a needle for PG or VG either. Just a stopper in the bottle's top and that stopper has a hole that fits my larger syringes.
One less item to clean up too.
I've got a bunch of luer needles sitting around that I bought when I started, because of all the needle posts on here, that I just don't use anymore because I cannot see the point. (< punny) If anyone wants them, just swing by my place. You'll have to dull them because they have points and I haven't unsealed them to dull them.
I don't use a needle for PG or VG either. Just a stopper in the bottle's top and that stopper has a hole that fits my larger syringes.
One less item to clean up too.
I've got a bunch of luer needles sitting around that I bought when I started, because of all the needle posts on here, that I just don't use anymore because I cannot see the point. (< punny) If anyone wants them, just swing by my place. You'll have to dull them because they have points and I haven't unsealed them to dull them.
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