Lithium battery advice for all vapers

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arbilab

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Mar 14, 2013
10
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Ft Worth TX US
Before one posts "advice", especially someone new to the forum and new to vaping, one should state one's qualifications. My last real job was product integrity engineer for Dell computer, before they blew off product integrity in 2001. Since then, I have researched and operated lithium batteries as used in electric model aircraft for 4 years. Lithium batteries are VERY allergic to being run down to where they do not operate. Just once destroys them. The electronics are supposed to prevent that, but to meet "long life" claims they tend to cut the margin too short. Example: Just tonight I was puffing my ecig and the use light flashed that it needed recharging. But the charger would not accept it! It had run down too far. After a half hour I coaxed it back to life, but its capacity is probably permanently diminished. Chevy Volt operates their lithiums this way: They stop charging at 80%, and except for emergency use they stop discharging at 30% and stop completely at 20%. That's right, they use only HALF of their rated capacity. This is to extend battery life, because those car batteries are colossally expensive and covered by warranty that GM has to pay for. We can be less retentive about our ecig batteries, they don't cost "that" much. But if you want the longest battery life, follow these directives. *Anticipate when it needs recharging. Do not wait for the blink. It can be fatally late, and it will always be later than ideal. If your batt reads remaining charge, stop using it just below 30%. *Anticipate when it is recharged. Toward the end of the charge cycle the wall adapter will get cooler than it was while actively charging. When you feel this, unplug it. As a soft rule, lithiums should take 1 hour to fully charge at their rated mAh. That is, a 280 mAh batt should charge in 1 hour on a 280 mA charger. Chargers and batteries are not always so matched. Example, my batt is 280 but my charger is 200. So if the batt was run as low as it should get it would take 1.4 hours to get "full". But wait, we don't WANT them full, we want them to stop just past 80% or no higher than 90%. And we REALLY don't want them as low as the chip will allow them to get. I can't give you hard numbers because every model combination of chip/batt/charger is different. The charger should be labled what its mA is. The bat mAh should be identified in the sales spec but nothing says it has to be. There are more technical details but I'm withholding them because for most users they would be clutter. Just stop using, rest for 20min, a half hour before you anticipate the "blink". Then stop charging when the wall adapter gets cooler than it was 15 minutes before. DO NOT leave lithiums charging unsupervised, while you are asleep or out of the house. Boeing 787s are still grounded because their lithiums caught fire despite very elegant monitoring systems. Lithiums are advantageous for their power density per size/weight. But lithiums are the most volatile battery and must be used properly for maximum safety. I apologize for the cinderblock of text, but despite breaking it into concise paragraphs this is how the forum software chooses to display it.
 
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yzer

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Nov 23, 2011
5,248
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Northern California
Don't take your Li-ion batteries down past 3.5V or better yet, 3.7V. Then again, how you want you use your batteries may take precedence over the number of charge cycles you get from them. Shorter life and longer delivered capacity may be worth it to you. Standard cylindrical Li-ion batteries are not that expensive. Lower charger voltage means more charge cycles. I charge 1050 mAh 14650 batteries at 350 mAh when they hit 3.5V. That takes about six hours to charge.
 
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arbilab

Full Member
Mar 14, 2013
10
4
Ft Worth TX US
To avoid the cinderblock text I will hashtag where paragraphs should be, like this: /###/ Completely agree, batteries are not "so expensive" that they "must" be coddled. Your convenience of use can take precedence. Also for convenience, if you run the batteries until they flash, keep a spare on hand because like mine, one might refuse to charge. (You probably do anyway.) /###/ Agree, slower charging = more charge cycles. The advantage diminishes at slower than 1/2 the battery mAh. That is, charging a 280mAh below 140mA. If you bought a kit, these values are selected for you. Some of us may mix mount-compatible parts. Charging ABOVE the batt mAh rating will shorten life, and charging MUCH above the batt mAh can be dangerous. Lithiums can overheat, deform internally, and short. Shorting produces much more heat than the small case can dissipate and the device can explode and burn. /###/ I don't think lithium battery fires happen every day, but modelers using lithiums have posted photos of what was left of their house after one did. The technology does require cautious respect.
 

Thrasher

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 28, 2012
11,176
13,742
Madeira beach, Fla
wall of text DNR
To avoid the cinderblock text I will hashtag where paragraphs should be, like this

just try umm making paragraphs lol.

sounds like your basing the conclusions on a cheapo ecig and this is only sort of relevant for those. with the better APV's the device warns you well before minimum discharge rate.
as well as most of the better removable type battery chargers have well designed charging algorithms.

Before one posts "advice", especially someone new to the forum and new to vaping, one should state one's qualifications.
and your qualifications with rechargable batteries is..............?


how about using real world experience with vaping? this doesnt count? what we do with these batteries (excluding ecigs) is much different then what these batteries go through in other situations.
there is more fluctuation with vaping then using the same exact batteries for an rc car or flash light where the drain is identical load after load device after device.
you will find many people using mods that are pulling well into the 20+ watt range where some will stay below 10. and this will directly affect the longevity of the batteries lifespan and rechargability.

there are many many articles here concerning batteries and someone who offers advice may have read them.
 
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arbilab

Full Member
Mar 14, 2013
10
4
Ft Worth TX US
Sorry, I don't know why but when I enter paragraphs they display while I'm writing but after posting they are gone. /###/ Well, I posted in the BEGINNER forum, not the EXPERT forum, where everybody already knows MUCH more than I do. Yeh, my apparatus is "cheap". It IS however from an esteemed forum sponsor, they are how I got here. /###/ Not to demean their product, but 2 hours before I initially posted it DID refuse to charge after I responded to the first blink. This is empirical evidence that the overdischarge cutoff margin in this product is too close to where the batt damages itself. And while some may think nothing of $12, I'm on social security and I HAVE to think about $12. That's 4 or more meals. /###/ 20 Watts eh? An average size model aircraft uses about 10 times that and the usable charge lasts only ~6 minutes at that rate. Those batteries cost several multiples of $12 so if one indulges that hobby one had best understand optimal deployment of lithium power.
 
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