Low volume of vapor

[Marc411]

Element vape has some decent mods on clearance right now and if you spend over $50 I believe shipping is free. mod, tanks and coils should be pretty easy to hit $50. They ship quickly and I normally get my stuff in a couple days.

Clearance Mods - Devices

I would help on the tanks but someone will have better information on drop in coils and tanks.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Do you want something close a hitting like a cig or just clouds? Are you using nic juice?

Definitely just clouds. I'm using a WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloids) extract of Tobacco with, I'm pretty sure, 50/50 PG/VG. It delivers a more well rounded, less stimulating, and more satisfying experience according to people who weren't completely satisfied with just nicotine and wondered why it wasn't as good as analogs. I don't have personal experience with just nicotine though, I think the difference is probably subtle unless there's also acetaldehyde and harmala alkaloids in the WTA I have.

 

[Letitia]

If you want to stick with 50/50 then stay with a mtl vape. I personally would go with Pico kit and 60-70vg blend. 60vg ok, 70vg better

 

[Blinkyrocket]

If you want to stick with 50/50 then stay with a mtl vape. I personally would go with Pico kit and 60-70vg blend. 60vg ok, 70vg better

I've heard people say more vapor is produced with one of the solvents over the other, would you say this is true? I think it's vegetable glycerin that's supposed to be capable of generating more vapor.

 

[Letitia]

Vg is what gives the dense creamy clouds you are looking for. I only subΩ dtl, I prefer 70-80vg. Not for clouds , I like a smooth throat hit. My juices are 9-6mg. Vg is harder on stock coils, might want consider a rta down the road.

 

[jfcooley]

I use 70/30 VG and get decent clouds. The flavors I use are semi sweet tobacco/bourbon and I'm usually between 45w-50w. 6mg nic

I really didn't start looking for clouds, but it's kinda fun.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

I use 70/30 VG and get decent clouds. The flavors I use are semi sweet tobacco/bourbon and I'm usually between 45w-50w. 6mg nic

I really didn't start looking for clouds, but it's kinda fun.

It's weird, my juice is labeled as being 12 mg/ml of nicotine. I barely feel any effects from it, maybe this is because of my abysmal vapor production.....

 

[jfcooley]

It's weird, my juice is labeled as being 12 mg/ml of nicotine. I barely feel any effects from it, maybe this is because of my abysmal vapor production.....

Well I sub ohm, so 6mg is enough for me.
If I read right you're using a pen style? Can't speak to those other than what I've read here. I also DTL hit. I didn't start to chase clouds, guess I still don't since I'm not directly looking for them, just happens to be how my MOD is/set up.

The flavor is better for me around 45, although it can be kinda coolish. 50w+ gives a warmer vape but I don't enjoy it as much.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Well I sub ohm, so 6mg is enough for me.
If I read right you're using a pen style? Can't speak to those other than what I've read here. I also DTL hit. I didn't start to chase clouds, guess I still don't since I'm not directly looking for them, just happens to be how my MOD is/set up.

The flavor is better for me around 45, although it can be kinda coolish. 50w+ gives a warmer vape but I don't enjoy it as much.

Warmth would make it closer to smoking, although in my experience the warm (hot) nature of smoke is one of the downsides. Yeah, I did gather from what's been said here that one can get more nicotine per "hit" by increasing the vapor and with deeper inhalation techniques, I just wouldn't think it'd be enough to halve the amount needed. Or, maybe you prefer lower nicotine levels? I thought I preferred higher but I found out I didn't care, I guess nicotine isn't my thing. [edited]

 

[jfcooley]

Well when I started I tried a 12mg juice. Too much throat hit and almost no flavor. The nic rush was too much as well, I smoked 1 - 1/2 packs a day. From all I've read 6mg seems to be about equal to what I smoked sub ohm.

The warmth for me just didn't sit with my flavors, again for me. I have two that would make sense warm (coffee/tobacco, caramel/bourbon) but I found it tasted better cooler.

I did it wrong(ish) when I started. I went straight to DTL (smoked MTL) and sub ohm. Oddly it worked beautifully for me. Haven't had a cig since started vaping. Guess that's a good example of how subjective this whole thing is.

Still learning though. Delving into making my own coils when everything gets here. Plan to make plenty of mistakes then...

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Well when I started I tried a 12mg juice. Too much throat hit and almost no flavor. The nic rush was too much as well, I smoked 1 - 1/2 packs a day. From all I've read 6mg seems to be about equal to what I smoked sub ohm.

The warmth for me just didn't sit with my flavors, again for me. I have two that would make sense warm (coffee/tobacco, caramel/bourbon) but I found it tasted better cooler.

I did it wrong(ish) when I started. I went straight to DTL (smoked MTL) and sub ohm. Oddly it worked beautifully for me. Haven't had a cig since started vaping. Guess that's a good example of how subjective this whole thing is.

Still learning though. Delving into making my own coils when everything gets here. Plan to make plenty of mistakes then...

When did you start vaping? Maybe the reason I don't get the nicotine rush at all is because my vape pen is quite obviously bad. Otherwise, idk why you get better effects than me, besides pharmacological or metabolic (decreased brain uptake and speed of uptake) tolerance.

 

[jfcooley]

3 weeks ago.
I have a Vaporesso Revenger with a Big Baby. .15 coil @ 45w. That could be part of the difference. I really don't know though.

 

[mcclintock]

CE4 clearomizers like that are usually disposable, the coil doesn't last forever and will get weak and/or burnt tasting. As well as being minimal at the best of times. You could use that battery unit for some slightly better clearos.

Whoa, man, I didn't know there could be too much vapor. Does it produce too much no matter how softly you inhale? Seems like you could adjust it just by sucking on it less intently. But, Idk, I have way too many questions lol. That's how I am, I like to learn and to always doubt what I learn, so I can ask more questions about it. It doesn't get me very many friends though.

A device set up to make a lot of vapor can easily burn if you don't make use of its generous airflow. You can take short little drags part of the time, turn down the power etc. but it won't be as good as something proportioned to what you are trying to do. OTOH if you want to instantly fog the room they make those.

 

[redeuce]

No problem. Fair warning: Those are all at FastTech, a Chinese site with great pricing and free shipping, but you can often wait four weeks for something to arrive.

You can use VapeCrawler.com (a Google-ish site for vape gear) to see if you can find a domestic vendor with the same or similar gear. The price with shipping will likely be higher, but you'll get it in days rather than weeks.

I think the T22 is $31 at MVS

 

[Blinkyrocket]

CE4 clearomizers like that are usually disposable, the coil doesn't last forever and will get weak and/or burnt tasting. As well as being minimal at the best of times. You could use that battery unit for some slightly better clearos.



A device set up to make a lot of vapor can easily burn if you don't make use of its generous airflow. You can take short little drags part of the time, turn down the power etc. but it won't be as good as something proportioned to what you are trying to do. OTOH if you want to instantly fog the room they make those.

Hehe, ohhh yeeeaaah.

 

[stols001]

It's going to be hard to say what nic level you need, if you get a more efficient, powerful device (whether it's MTL, restricted DL hit, or full on DL very low resistance subOhm specific device. Because what you are using doesn't give you much vape and you say you don't smoke Very Much, you may not need as much nic as you think, since you are getting little vapor production. If you go for a very powerful sub0hm device, your nic may go as low as 6 or 12, as you will be getting much more volume of vapor per puff. A crossover or midrange tank may give you the cloudiness you are looking for though, as you can get quite cloudy with a higher VG percentage and open airflow, and potentially keep your nicotine level higher.

I'd disagree with you about WTA being a "subtle" difference, as it does contain some of the alkaloids contained in tobacco, so many people use it to transition while tapering to JUST nicotine, although some people prefer WTA generally and use WTA juices, though the price is higher. Depending on how much you vape (I'm assuming you are using a storebought WTA juice that's flavored, not wholesale WTA) this may or may not become cost ineffective for you. It's certainly more similar to tobacco for some people (I am one of them) though others notice less difference. If you are primarily vaping every now and then and not really smoking either there is no reason to change that variable unless you so desire, though you may need a different Pg./VG ratio, depending on how you vape.

Just be aware that with the setup you are now using, it's a pretty fair jump to go to a very low resistance wattage device, and you'd be looking at more expensive gear, needing to buy several external batteries and a charger, depending on how much you use the device. If you are using it a fair amount, you may find you need more battery life, but if you choose something either MTL or more of a crossover, an internal battery may do fine for a whole day. It really depends on a lot of factors.

Good luck on deciding on a new setup. I think almost anything you choose is going to make you happier with your vape, but you are going to have to look at nic juice strength in your situation, given the device you have now, as it's going to be a bit of a jump upward, regardless of whatever setup you end up choosing. Certainly, lack of satisfaction in vaping may be caused by the inability to get a decent vape out of your current setup.

Anna

 

[Blinkyrocket]

It's going to be hard to say what nic level you need, if you get a more efficient, powerful device (whether it's MTL, restricted DL hit, or full on DL very low resistance subOhm specific device. Because what you are using doesn't give you much vape and you say you don't smoke Very Much, you may not need as much nic as you think, since you are getting little vapor production. If you go for a very powerful sub0hm device, your nic may go as low as 6 or 12, as you will be getting much more volume of vapor per puff. A crossover or midrange tank may give you the cloudiness you are looking for though, as you can get quite cloudy with a higher VG percentage and open airflow, and potentially keep your nicotine level higher.

I'd disagree with you about WTA being a "subtle" difference, as it does contain some of the alkaloids contained in tobacco, so many people use it to transition while tapering to JUST nicotine, although some people prefer WTA generally and use WTA juices, though the price is higher. Depending on how much you vape (I'm assuming you are using a storebought WTA juice that's flavored, not wholesale WTA) this may or may not become cost ineffective for you. It's certainly more similar to tobacco for some people (I am one of them) though others notice less difference. If you are primarily vaping every now and then and not really smoking either there is no reason to change that variable unless you so desire, though you may need a different Pg./VG ratio, depending on how you vape.

Just be aware that with the setup you are now using, it's a pretty fair jump to go to a very low resistance wattage device, and you'd be looking at more expensive gear, needing to buy several external batteries and a charger, depending on how much you use the device. If you are using it a fair amount, you may find you need more battery life, but if you choose something either MTL or more of a crossover, an internal battery may do fine for a whole day. It really depends on a lot of factors.

Good luck on deciding on a new setup. I think almost anything you choose is going to make you happier with your vape, but you are going to have to look at nic juice strength in your situation, given the device you have now, as it's going to be a bit of a jump upward, regardless of whatever setup you end up choosing. Certainly, lack of satisfaction in vaping may be caused by the inability to get a decent vape out of your current setup.

Anna

Oh, I know that I for sure don't have enough experience with vaping just nicotine to be able to make the judgment of whether or not the difference is subtle or large. I actually don't know at all because I've never tried nicotine by itself. But, why would you want to taper down to nicotine with WTA? I don't think that some of the alkaloids in WTA are more dependence producing than pure nicotine, and when people vape pure nicotine they usually vape much, much more than they ever would've been able to with smoking. I would think that that in and of itself would be a tad bit detrimental, but that's just a habitual thing that can truly be controlled despite some people's lack of belief in themselves.

The other alkaloids in tobacco act with synergy to both prolong and potentiate nicotine's effects. So, with WTA you can vape less and at higher intervals. I think that this would cause less dependence just because there's less constant spiking of nicotine levels and the consequent induction of c-FOS in various reward centers in the brain. The increased potency has the ability to increase dependence, but only if brain levels of the alkaloids were allowed to spike rapidly and often. I think that happens less with WTA.

 

[Izan]

Oh, I know that I for sure don't have enough experience with vaping just nicotine to be able to make the judgment of whether or not the difference is subtle or large. I actually don't know at all because I've never tried nicotine by itself. But, why would you want to taper down to nicotine with WTA? I don't think that some of the alkaloids in WTA are more dependence producing than pure nicotine, and when people vape pure nicotine they usually vape much, much more than they ever would've been able to with smoking. I would think that that in and of itself would be a tad bit detrimental, but that's just a habitual thing that can truly be controlled despite some people's lack of belief in themselves.

The other alkaloids in tobacco act with synergy to both prolong and potentiate nicotine's effects. So, with WTA you can vape less and at higher intervals. I think that this would cause less dependence just because there's less constant spiking of nicotine levels and the consequent induction of c-FOS in various reward centers in the brain. The increased potency has the ability to increase dependence, but only if brain levels of the alkaloids were allowed to spike rapidly and often. I think that happens less with WTA.

hi and welcome,

Keep up the research and the good work.
Things will eventually fall into place for you.

cheers
I

 

[stols001]

A) It's expensive

B) It hasn't really been tested extensively and there is the *possibility* that it may be more harmful than regular old nicotine, though it's unlikely if it's decent juice, and you aren't combusting it or heating it to dangerous levels, but it is an unknown factor.

C) It's a good choice for folks who are having trouble switching to just nicotine and can be used transitionally to help with cigarette detox for folks who desire just nicotine. Doing it that way eliminates tar right off the bat (which itself is an MAOI, so you would be detoxing from that anyway), if using WTA and slowwwllly weaning off of it, lowering percentages in the tank can ease detox and also control the reduction in WTA fairly easily as compared to trying to do that with cigs.

D) I think you are probably unfamiliar with nicotine absorption rates with e-cigs compared to tobacco.... It may be a higher percentage nicotine, but vape absorption is less efficient than cigarette absorption. Also, nicotine isn't just the "strength" you use, it's also how much cumulative e-liquid one uses over the course of a day. A MTL vaper at higher nicotine may be getting LESS nic if they use 3--4 ml a day versus a subohmer who may use up to 30 mg of juice a day (that's high, but not unreasonably high for subohm necessarily) but use only 2 or 3 m.g. liquid. So, you really are saying that people are using "higher" nicotine with perhaps not as much knowledge about it as you think. There are folks on here who can do that calculation quite easily, one of them may chime in. I don't know exact numbers, but the mg/ml in a cig performs quite differently in a cig than a vape. So that's a bit of a red herring, using WTA may satisfy you more, but that's due to all the other things in tobacco, not just the nicotine level itself. Each person is going to have to experiment to find the right nic ratio for them, and that has nothing to do with added WTA. Most WTA juices have nic added on top to reach a consistent nic level, so knowing what your WTA nic level is will be important. It's not as simple as "Oh, it's WTA so my nic level doesn't matter." They both do.

E) Many e-cig users don't want the alkaloids and do fine with plain nicotine juice. There's no reason TO use WTA other than preference. I used it to taper and I keep it around for stressful moments, but I don't always use it regularly at this point. If I save it for high stress situations rather than vaping it routinely, it's another weapon in my arsenal for staying of cigarettes, which doesn't sound really like your motivation.

It makes perfect sense for you to use WTA if you prefer it and can afford it, but since you aren't quitting, and claiming you don't even need nic, I'm unsure why you think everyone should vape WTA. You're not in anyone else's situation, and I don't believe it to be true that "most" vapers use more nic (or at least absorb more nic) than they were smoking, necessarily. In fact, I find that vaping SOELEY allows me to use less nicotine, and vape less than when I was smoking cigarettes. I can go hours without vaping if needed, and I certainly couldn't do that with cigarettes. My "need" to vape is far less pressing than my "need" to smoke cigarettes. Oh, many of us chain vape starting out, that's not unusual while going through the detox process but most ppl's nic usage settles down.

Best of luck with all the variables you will be playing with. Please note that I think it's perfectly fine for you to use WTA if you like it, but a blanket statement that WTA is "best" isn't really exactly true, at least not for everyone.

Anna

 

[Blinkyrocket]

A) It's expensive

B) It hasn't really been tested extensively and there is the *possibility* that it may be more harmful than regular old nicotine, though it's unlikely if it's decent juice, and you aren't combusting it or heating it to dangerous levels, but it is an unknown factor.

C) It's a good choice for folks who are having trouble switching to just nicotine and can be used transitionally to help with cigarette detox for folks who desire just nicotine. Doing it that way eliminates tar right off the bat (which itself is an MAOI, so you would be detoxing from that anyway), if using WTA and slowwwllly weaning off of it, lowering percentages in the tank can ease detox and also control the reduction in WTA fairly easily as compared to trying to do that with cigs.

D) I think you are probably unfamiliar with nicotine absorption rates with e-cigs compared to tobacco.... It may be a higher percentage nicotine, but vape absorption is less efficient than cigarette absorption. Also, nicotine isn't just the "strength" you use, it's also how much cumulative e-liquid one uses over the course of a day. A MTL vaper at higher nicotine may be getting LESS nic if they use 3--4 ml a day versus a subohmer who may use up to 30 mg of juice a day (that's high, but not unreasonably high for subohm necessarily) but use only 2 or 3 m.g. liquid. So, you really are saying that people are using "higher" nicotine with perhaps not as much knowledge about it as you think. There are folks on here who can do that calculation quite easily, one of them may chime in. I don't know exact numbers, but the mg/ml in a cig performs quite differently in a cig than a vape. So that's a bit of a red herring, using WTA may satisfy you more, but that's due to all the other things in tobacco, not just the nicotine level itself. Each person is going to have to experiment to find the right nic ratio for them, and that has nothing to do with added WTA. Most WTA juices have nic added on top to reach a consistent nic level, so knowing what your WTA nic level is will be important. It's not as simple as "Oh, it's WTA so my nic level doesn't matter." They both do.

E) Many e-cig users don't want the alkaloids and do fine with plain nicotine juice. There's no reason TO use WTA other than preference. I used it to taper and I keep it around for stressful moments, but I don't always use it regularly at this point. If I save it for high stress situations rather than vaping it routinely, it's another weapon in my arsenal for staying of cigarettes, which doesn't sound really like your motivation.

It makes perfect sense for you to use WTA if you prefer it and can afford it, but since you aren't quitting, and claiming you don't even need nic, I'm unsure why you think everyone should vape WTA. You're not in anyone else's situation, and I don't believe it to be true that "most" vapers use more nic (or at least absorb more nic) than they were smoking, necessarily. In fact, I find that vaping SOELEY allows me to use less nicotine, and vape less than when I was smoking cigarettes. I can go hours without vaping if needed, and I certainly couldn't do that with cigarettes. My "need" to vape is far less pressing than my "need" to smoke cigarettes. Oh, many of us chain vape starting out, that's not unusual while going through the detox process but most ppl's nic usage settles down.

Best of luck with all the variables you will be playing with. Please note that I think it's perfectly fine for you to use WTA if you like it, but a blanket statement that WTA is "best" isn't really exactly true, at least not for everyone.

Anna

I said "why would you want to taper with WTA". I didn't say everyone should use it. Even if there's less absorption, people who switch to vaping still get symptoms of nicotine poisoning FAR more often than regular smokers and they don't even know it, at least when they first start the switch. MAOi's in Tobacco are responsible for most of the dependence, which means nicotine won't cut it until withdrawal symptoms are over, and before then people would ravenously consume nicotine wondering why they're not feeling better. That situation/context is what I'm talking about. Essentially exactly what you're talking about. My point though with the question of why you would want to eventually stop WTA is because it's like you're getting less bang for your buck when you just use nicotine, even if you subjectively enjoy nicotine more. There are a few mental health benefits of nicotine and the other alkaloids. Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and possibly a couple other neurodegenerative disorders that nicotine helped with in rats, but that has not been studied in humans.