mAh's ohm's and confusion!!

[DC2]

I'm concerned about some of the high resistances I am seeing being recommended.

I think you should ask the person who you got the clearomizers from what resistance they are.
At least that way you will be getting something that you know your husband will like.

If the resistance is too high (and standard 510 atomizers are 2.3ohms) then it will produce less vapor.
And if it doesn't produce as much vapor, he probably isn't going to like it.

 

[Credo]

As a quick point of reference think of it kind of like this.

On an eGo type battery (from 3.2v to 3.7v [Average under load tends to be around 3.4v] over it's charge cycle):

1.5 Ohm LR - Simulates vaping a standard 510 atty at 6v.
1.7 Ohm LR - Simulates vaping a standard 510 atty at 5v.
2.0 Ohm LR - Simulates vaping a standard 510 atty at 4.2v

2.5 Ohm 510 Standard/Regular range - This is the standard 510 range...it's what comes with regular mini 510 type batteries and performs about like a 4.2v (KR808/901) battery with its native 3 Ohm stuff.

3.0 Ohm - This is standard for 4.2v devices like KR808D-1, Riva SE, 901, PigCig, iGo, etc...performs similar to a 510 kit with it's native 2.4 Ohm stuff.

3.5 Ohm and above - HV stuff...made for 5v and up devices.

Note this chart is not 'exact'...as no two stock batteries/atties are going to be exactly like they are rated (with exception to some of the higher priced regulated ones). There is a small tolerance level in there (just changing juices can change the resistance of a carto by .2 ohms)...but this kinda gets you in the ballpark.

Note that the CE2 gives you more choices in that 2.5 to 3.0 range. The coil is also closer to your mouth...so in theory a 2.4 Ohm CE2 might feel more in the ballpark as a 2.0 Ohm bottom coiled carto, and even that is somewhat subjective to individual preferences.

 

[garyinco]

I'm too lazy at the moment to figure out how to link to a specific post, but the following was posted by "Quick1" in this thread. It explains it well. For the 510 I'd stay over 2.5ohm, for the Ego's I'd stay over 2.0ohm. But that's just my cautious, uneducated opinion. Better to listen to Quick1.
---
"It's just a matter of current draw -- the load you're putting on the batteries.

Regular 510 joye atomizer == 2.2 ohms
Typical 510 LR atomizer == 1.5 -1.8 ohms

Let's say your 3.7v battery is charged up and putting out 4v.
510 Joye atomizer is going to want to draw about 1.8 Amps
510 LR atomizer is going to want to draw about 2.5 Amps

Batteries are rated with a Maximum Discharge Rate. This is the max current the battery is rated to deliver continuously without significantly damaging the battery or killing it prematurely. Note: continuously -- our application is pretty much pulsed. On, rest, on, rest, ...

Typically this max discharge rate is commonly 2 x the capacity of the battery in mAh. So a 450 mAh battery might be expected to have a max discharge rate of 900 mA (just under 1 Amp). It varys based on the battery construction.

Then there are protection circuits. Protected batteries will be protected against discharging over some discharge rate. Go over that rate and the battery disconnects internally.

The LR atomizers draw almost half again as much current as a regular atomizer. For this reason you may/will stress your batteries, measurably reduce their usable life, and possibly trip the protection circuit. For this reason vendors are going to tell you that they are not suitable for use with smaller capacity batteries. Doesn't mean that they won't work with smaller batteries but it would definitely be "use entirely at your own risk and we advise against it". It may not be much or any more dangerous but you could reduce the life of your batteries, or it may not work at all and vendors are not going to want to deal with that. I don't know that all the small (510 and the likes) batteries are made by the same manufacturer and to the same specs but I would expect some variance there and vendors are not going to want to deal with or support usage which is pushing components to their limits or over their rated operating parameters. "
---

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Here is a video to watch.....

YouTube - ‪XL 510 CE2 Edition 2 Clear Cartomizers from Microcig Manufacturing‬‏

 

[lillybit]

Thanks for all the help guys, soooo much info, but I finally got it understood as far as Ohm choices vs battery size options...now to find the best deal on an eGo or Riva...gonna make a diff thread for that tho

 

[pmos69]

As a quick point of reference think of it kind of like this.

On an eGo type battery (from 3.2v to 3.7v [Average under load tends to be around 3.4v] over it's charge cycle):

1.5 Ohm LR - Simulates vaping a standard 510 atty at 6v.
1.7 Ohm LR - Simulates vaping a standard 510 atty at 5v.
2.0 Ohm LR - Simulates vaping a standard 510 atty at 4.2v
...

Your math seems way off track.

Taking a wild guess, I'd say you're looking at current as a measure of energy for your equivalences, which is wrong.
If you want to measure energy you have to measure power (Watts)

Taking your numbers of 3.4V as the eGo voltage and 2.5 Ohm for the 510 regular atty:

• An eGo with a regular atty would produce an energy of 4.6 Watts

-------------------------------------

• An eGo with a 1.5 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 7.7 Watts
• A 6V bat with a 2.5 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 14.4 Watts (about double the heat)

-------------------------------------

• An eGo with a 1.7 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 6.8 Watts
• A 5V bat with a 2.5 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 10 Watts

-------------------------------------

• An eGo with a 2 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 5.8 Watts
• A 4.2V bat with a 2.5 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 7.1 Watts

 

[Credo]

Your math seems way off track.

Taking a wild guess, I'd say you're looking at current as a measure of energy for your equivalences, which is wrong.
If you want to measure energy you have to measure power (Watts)

Taking your numbers of 3.4V as the eGo voltage and 2.5 Ohm for the 510 regular atty:

• An eGo with a regular atty would produce an energy of 4.6 Watts

-------------------------------------

• An eGo with a 1.5 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 7.7 Watts
• A 6V bat with a 2.5 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 14.4 Watts (about double the heat)

-------------------------------------

• An eGo with a 1.7 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 6.8 Watts
• A 5V bat with a 2.5 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 10 Watts

-------------------------------------

• An eGo with a 2 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 5.8 Watts
• A 4.2V bat with a 2.5 Ohm atty would produce an energy of 7.1 Watts

I wasn't trying to be exact to Ohms Law...
I'm aware of Ohms Law...but there is far more to vaping and the design of 'quality' LR atomizers than this.

The over all 'vaping experience' is going to be somewhat similar to my chart.

In this case, we are trying to 'simulate' vaping at higher voltages....not necissarily match Ohms law numbers.

The 6v reference..yes I'm way off when it comes to total watts...but then again, find me a 2.5 Ohm atty that doesn't almost immediately pop with more than 8 watts...and I'm seriously wanting to order some

Also there is a little more to it than just watts...note the word 'simulation'.
The time it takes to get the coil to temperature, and the liquid into vapor has something to do with it as well. Also consider that all liquids don't vape optimally at the same 'total watts'...the wicking rates ain't the same, the surface area/size of the coils producing those total watts can vary, and it quickly becomes more evident that there is far MORE to it than just total watts on the heating coils.

Current is still part of the 'big picture' as well...to say watts are the only way to measure power is a bit decieving. I.E. I can take a high pressure nozzle on my water hose and knock the paint off my car! I can use a larger hose, that actually produces more 'total watts'...but not use a high pressure nozzle to speed up the current, and not do the same damage to the car....well...I might 'crush' the car with the weight of the extra water....but still....similar amounts of 'power or watts' do not have the 'same effect' nor type of 'power'. Wrong? Maybe I am....but I'm not fully convinced that the wattage of the element is the big difference between HV and regular vaping.

I mainly meant to make it a bit more clear that lower resistance atties are meant to simulate higher voltage vaping. I've seen more than one custom LR atomizer in the 1.4 to 1.6 resitance range claim to simulate 6v vaping. There IS far more to it than just the total watts....the bridge...wicking action, cooling properties...etc...........

There are many other examples of how 'total watts' is not really the only thing to consider. Case in point...two 40 watt light bulbs vs one 80 watt bulb. Still 80w of power at the end of the equasion, but...they are not anything alike in terms of how the energy is disipated, percieved by human senses, or used in practical situations. It's also possible to pulse lower or higher amounts of energy and achieve different types of resonances and stuff, or even trick chemecials into behaving as if they were hotter than they actually are....and the list goes on and on and on with possibilities on proving that it is/can be about more than the WATTS.

BTW...I do use a Darwin and love it Still...more to it all than the just the total watts Lots of different things can be done with that same amount heat energy...........................

While Ohms law is very helpful in getting a fairly precise idea of how much watts/power a network is going to deliver, it still doesn't account for how long it takes the system to get to that maximum potential, or variations likely to occur in the system. Adding a bit of steam to the argument...we're also throwing other types of chemistry into the equasion (PG/VG/Flavorings/Wicking-bridge materials/etc....)

Just as a point of reference...
There are more things different about a Cisco or Inkenvape Custom LR atomizer and it's Regular 2.5 Ohm or HV brothers than just the total resistance or theoretical wattage of the coils. Even the stock stuff right out of China, say from SmokTech...you can see differences from their LR, Regular, and HV products...I.E. bridge size, number/type/size of vertical wicks, surface area of the main wick exposed to the coils, coil length or number of wraps vs diameter of the coil material, material choices....etc...

 

[pmos69]

Seriously, Watts is the only way to measure power in an electrical circuit. It's always V*I.
What can influence what you do with that energy is another issue. Stuff like coil surface can influence the way the energy is dissipated and how efficiently, and that will have an effect, but that is very different than saying "1.5 Ohm LR - Simulates vaping a standard 510 atty at 6v."
(You shouldn't even use 2.5 Ohm attys at 6v. It's simply too hot.)

 

[Credo]

Seriously, Watts is the only way to measure power in an electrical circuit. It's always V*I.
What can influence what you do with that energy is another issue. Stuff like coil surface can influence the way the energy is dissipated and how efficiently, and that will have an effect, but that is very different than saying "1.5 Ohm LR - Simulates vaping a standard 510 atty at 6v."
(You shouldn't even use 2.5 Ohm attys at 6v. It's simply too hot.)

Perhaps, but an atomizer is not just an electrical circuit.
There are differences between the design of an LR atty besides the coil resistance or watt potential of the electronics part of the system.

Power is much too vague of a term...
If watts is a measurement of heat....you still have to consider that a liquid is there to obsorb or dissipate some of that heat....etc. Does that also change the resistance? Sometimes...but not always, right? So what's going on with Ohm's Law now? Things I'm trying to point out are not part of the Ohm's Law equasion at all....you need more math...more figures. Ohm's Law still does NOT account for how long it takes to build up that amount of heat (watts). The theroetical wattage is NOT always instant with the button push...it takes some time for this to happen, and there is a ramp of various temperatures as this occurs...so what EE equasion covers time for the network to deliver that power? I.E. If it takes 8 seconds to get network A up to max heat, you still have a lot of time in there that the system is well under the max. Network B might max out at half that wattage, but it might only take 2 seconds to do so, and sits there steadily simmering....well....starting to get the idea?

It's also important to consider things like distance of the point of atomization from the mouth, and the draw...how much cool air is allowed in to cool down the vapor as it hits the mouth. If you stand closer to the same fire, giving off the same amount of heat....it still burns hotter relative to your body position than if you back away from it for some distance. The fire is still the same 'wattage'....but the experience of standing by the fire is very different! While Ohm's Law does not account for any of this at all....the design of many LR atomizers do often take such things into consideration. Perhaps it was done with less science, and more like a chef adding pinches of salt to a recipe, but it is still part of the design process none the less.

Formula 1 Dragster vs Grand Prix designs.........different ways to store and maxamize the potential energy. One dumps it out really fast and gets the car up to max speed as fast, and in as short of a space as possible! The other is more about sustaining a constant energy dispersal for longer periods of time, and much farther distances...

I said all along that it's just meant to be a ball park frame of reference and used the term 'simulates' for that reason.

I'm happy to retract it however.....
Feel free to explain it better for folks

 

[AttyPops]

Their is a myth that lr attys will destroy eGo batteries. This is a wive's tale.

Sorry dude. Real world experience from many people... including vendors that got a lot of returns from customers using LR (1.5 ohm) stuff on them. Now, of course, it may vary by make/model/revision. Who knows, maybe they used higher rated electronics by now. But it held true historically. And it makes sense, since the total power dissipation is, by necessity, higher with lower ohms. And post-mortem showed the mosfets burning out, not the batteries dying. Pulled too many amps per minute. Heated up and ... POP! This probably varies by vaping habits... e.g. "chain vaping" is worse for it.

I say... try it/risk it if you wish. Your make/model may be fine (have or order a spare battery). However, if 2.0 ohms is good enough for you... best to stay at 2.0 ohms or higher. But that's me.

 

[Credo]

Sorry dude. Real world experience from many people... including vendors that got a lot of returns from customers using LR (1.5 ohm) stuff on them. Now, of course, it may vary by make/model/revision. Who knows, maybe they used higher rated electronics by now. But it held true historically. And it makes sense, since the total power dissipation is, by necessity, higher with lower ohms. And post-mortem showed the mosfets burning out, not the batteries dying. Pulled too many amps.

I say... try it/risk it if you wish. Your make/model may be fine (have or order a spare battery). However, if 2.0 ohms is good enough for you... best to stay at 2.0 ohms or higher. But that's me.

I agree with ya there...to me 2 Ohms is plenty hot for most stock batteries, and should be safe on just about any 510 stock battery out there.

 

[pmos69]

Perhaps, but an atomizer is not just an electrical circuit.
There are differences between the design of an LR atty besides the coil resistance or watt potential of the electronics part of the system.

Not really, just the coil resistance.
(and there are no electronics in an atty. Just the coil).

If an atty has a different architecture, and things like a longer airflow path, bigger coil area, that's another thing and you can get a different performance, yes, but that is usually not even the case when dealing with normal and LR versions of the same atty.

What you can't say is that a 10 Watt atty is equivalent to a 5 Watt atty, in general terms.
In general terms, a 5 Watt atty is equivalent to a... 5 Watt atty, AND THEN, if there are different physical characteristics, the vaping result can be different.

Vaping in 2 attys in which the difference is only the coil resistance - If you adjust the voltage to get the same power, you will get exactly the same performance.

 

[stealthspy589]

You just blew my freaking mind. That is the most perfect explanation!

While this analogy may not directly answer your question, it's good for reference and/or understanding =)

mAh (milliampere-hour) is just how long a battery will last at a given load.

Picture a regular bucket with 1 inch of water in it. At the bottom of the bucket is a small hole.

inches of water is like voltage (high water level = higher voltage)
size of the bucket is mAh (wider bucket = higher mAh)
size of the hole is ohms (wider hole = less ohms)

1 inch of water will only push so much water out of the hole, the bigger the hole, the faster the bucket will drain. Let's say it drains the bucket in 1 minute.

But if you filled a kid's pool with 1 inch of water and the same size hole, the water would flow through the hole at the same rate, but it would take (for example) 30 minutes to drain.

Fill either with 2 inches of water, and it will drain faster because there's more pressure (voltage) pushing through the same size hole (ohms). If you increased the ohms (which would be making the hole smaller), you could achieve the same flow of water as 1 inch with a larger hole.

Either this makes a lot of sense, or you're worse off!

LOL

 

[Capers]

You just blew my freaking mind. That is the most perfect explanation!

Glad to hear it