Making that perfect Juice you buy from store (Help)

[Jadc]

Hello guy's

First of all I have been DIY'ING for about 7-8month's now and total of vaping 1 year 5 months.

The question I have is the juice you buy from stores online such as vermillion river range and etc the top brands that is, How do they make them taste so good? I know it's all about steeping and letting them sit for couple of weeks , is this what they do so that's how store bought one's taste amazing? or do they add little special ingredients ? I use PG,VG NICOTINE, and various of concentrates from differ suppliers, such as flavourart,perfume apprentice and some of decadent vapours. Once again my juice's never seem to taste as good!

So basically any tips and tricks for me? is the trick to let them steep for a while ? obviously they will taste better steeped compared just made ones

Thanks

Kind regards

 

[nanovapr]

Hi, I have been mixing for a few months. Some of my first attempts were unique (I call it my "Diesel Fuel" flavor. Not recommended). Sometimes tiny amounts of sweet things help, even with a non-sweet flavor. Cotton Candy is an easy sweetener. I find that just 2% of that, or Vanilla can make all the difference in the world.

I gave up on counting drops pretty quickly. It's too tedious, and easy for me to lose count. ("...77, 78, 79 PHONE RINGS... crap.."). If you make 3ml or 5 ml test batches, drops are too coarse and variable of a unit of measure, I use 1 ml syringe, easy to measure hundredths of a ml. If I can be very precise in my test batches, they are easy to scale up. If I use drops in my test batches, scaling them up can produce something I don't like.

 

[Str8V8ping]

If your looking for lots of flavor then use capellas flavorings hands down . Pretty much all there flavors are true and really tasty . Decadent vapor flavorings imo are the worst . I didnt like one out of the 8 i tried .I have about 12 or more capellas flavors now and every one is great and packed with flavor .They are incredibly easy to make good finished juices with .

Tpa and FA are good but i usually will get some bad flavors and id say 1 out of 3 i make are vapeable but with capellas i havent made one that cant be a all day vape

Remember to check the reviews section of flavors too . Its very helpful .
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/flavor-reviews/

 

[Jadc]

They do sound Yummy actually matey, so if I used this one for e.g http://www.capellaflavordrops.com/strawberriesandcream.aspx I would use it as like 5% 10% like the decadent vapors? are they safe to use? thanks again

 

[Hoosier]

As usual, I'm going to start with a story.

I'm the cook of the family. My mother, sister, sister-in-law, friends and other family members always call me first with cooking questions. Some of these nut cases think I can fix anything. My wife loves that I cook, but she HATES black licorice, even the smell will make her gag. She notices that I have fennel and anise in my spice rack and tells me that I better never use any of those in anything she eats. (Maybe hates is not a strong enough word for her feelings on black licorice?) I make many dishes that she absolutely adores that use those spices, but, being old enough to know better, I do not tell her that spices she has such strong feelings against is one of the reasons she loves it.

Why would I tell such a stupid story? The same reason I have coffee flavorings and others that I would loathe to vape by themselves.

There is something missing from your mixes, a spice, that fills in the gaps that are missing, and it could be something you think you hate. I hate a sparkling wine usually called by the name of a French provience that is famous for it so much I cannot bring myself to type it, but I have some flavoring of the same name and I use it when something needs a bright bitter to tie it all together. Maybe someone who has studied this stuff knows why a touch of raspberry makes watermelon taste much more like watermelon than watermelon flavoring alone? I don't know why this stuff works the way it works, but it is like cooking to me, keep trying until you find that tiny bit that brings all the big flavors together.

The vendors you like are probably adding bits of flavoring that you haven't considered yet...

 

[Str8V8ping]

They do sound Yummy actually matey, so if I used this one for e.g Strawberries and Cream - e liquid tea flavored e juice water flavoring coffee flavors e cigarette Diet & Fitness Baking & Desserts I would use it as like 5% 10% like the decadent vapors? are they safe to use? thanks again

Capellas usually run around 10-15% by themself . They are all safe to use as far as i know . Some people say the vanilla custard's Custard ingredient may be not that safe however its probably the most liked flavor out of all the people here and i havent had any issues . Lots of people here love capellas flavorings . You really cant go wrong and they have a sale right now which they dont have often .

STrawberry and cream is awesome and sweet strawberry is even better . I use both together .Capellas has the best chocolates,PB,marshmellow,graham cracker,strawberry,vanilla and french toast imo

 

[Jadc]

Aw brilliant, Well it look's like I will be ordering some very soon, but I doubt it will get to me here in the UK any time soon lol

 

[bamsbbq]

i also notice that when i add a touch of bavarian cream to some of my mixes it brings out that "richness" that some diy flavors are lacking...thats just for my tastebuds though...yours may differ

 

[AzPlumber]

As usual Hoosier with excellent info. I had the same issue at first, my liquids were just flat with out any depth. When i started "cooking" my stuff it tastes much better. "Cooking" is not with heat but a methodical approach to making liquid with a pinch of this and a dash of that. All great recipes have the base flavors and then some fringe flavors that give it the depth. There are also some flavor enhancers out there that work wonders when used sparingly. (vape wizzard, bitter wizzard, magic mask, ect.)

 

[Str8V8ping]

My straweberry cake juice needs popcorn flavoring to make it but has no hint of popcorn in the finished juice . Prime example . I find most flavorings are not best by iteself .Theres most by capellas that can but only about half or less of TPA that can be used by itself . NOt to say TPA is not great they just call for more complex mixes since lots of them are the spice needed for most recipes . TPA hazelniut is more of a spice than a base flavor . Great to add to things or use other spices with the hazelnut to enhance the flavor . Lately i have been using capellas as my base and tpa to alter the flavor when i can and iv been having great luck that way

Also a little trick i had with hazelnut is to add 1.5-2% fa cocoa or capellas chocolate . It makes the hazelnut more of a rich flavor .Im really thinking TPA acytal Pyrazine would make this flavor shine .

 

[sjohnson]

Agree with Hoosier. My favorite flavors (all tobacco for me) are blends of one or two "body" flavors with varying amounts of "hint" or "top note" flavors.

For instance, a tiny bit of chocolate and/or licorice flavor added to a tobacco flavor can add a lot of depth. The trick is, never put so much "hint" flavor in as to actually distinguish it as a dominant flavor. Use instead just enough that it almost hides in the original body flavor. It's hard to describe.

I am also the cook in the family

 

[Jadc]

Thanks for all the reply's everyone much appreciated, It's just sometimes ... I have got some mts wizard ? can't remember if that's the name of it but what percentage and what flavours do you recommend I use this on? 10ml would it be like 2% of the wizard?

cheers

 

[Hoosier]

MTS VW is usually closer to 0.625% to 1%. (Yeah, that doesn't compute well...)

Better way to look at it 1 drop per 5ml to 1 drop per 3ml is a typical range for MTS VW.

 

[bjannr]

Thanks for comparing DIY to cooking. I measure with my eyes and hand when cooking and add a bit of this and that. Always comes out tasting great, but never quite the same. So I guess my juice creations will be a bit like that also.

 

[Jadc]

I never seem to exceed 18% in my juice's because I am afraid that they will taste to strong after a while when they have steeped and "blossomed" if you like that term
(I know different concentrates are different strenghts and does take hours of "cooking" to get the right recipe), also correct me if I wrong but for more flavour it's more PG you use rather than VG?

I know it does sound like I am just new at DIY but I just have never gotten around to ask for advice and tricks but just wanted to ask the experts for advice lol , plus it's a good thread for other people, no doubt there are plenty of these but hey what the hell can never be too many hehe

 

[Str8V8ping]

Even with 5 or so flavors im usually under 18% total . WHen mixing multiple flavors some only need .5% here ,1.5% there. You generally need a slight bit more flavoring with VG . I try to make it where i can just taste the flavor and after steeping it will be strong flavored but not past the point of no flavor . Too much = no flavor at all .

 

[pinellaspete]

The question I have is the juice you buy from stores online such as vermillion river range and etc the top brands that is, How do they make them taste so good? I know it's all about steeping and letting them sit for couple of weeks , is this what they do so that's how store bought one's taste amazing? or do they add little special ingredients ?

Yes, your suspicions are right, they do add special ingredients. They use tobacco flavorings from their own tobacco extraction process. Some people call this WTA which stands for Whole Tobacco Alkaloids. Nicotine is the MAJOR alkaloid contained in a tobacco plant, but there are several more and they are missing in e-juice made with nicotine alone. Us being ex-smokers, miss those other alkaloids bad! Isn't it great how addiction works?

Those other alkaloids working in concert with nicotine is what makes tobacco addiction so strong. I have posted in other threads about why I think we shouldn't be using WTA in our e-juice if you are interested, but I'm not going to rant here.

Most of the vendors using WTA in their juices have just started their business in the past year. They produce some of the best tasting juice available and are lauded all over the ECF. Some of them tell you they use tobacco extraction on their website, but some of them don't. Buyer beware!

Some vendors just try and skirt around the issue and mention NATURAL INGREDIENTS AND NATURAL FLAVORINGS.

I just think its a little immoral adding extra chemicals that haven't been approved by the FDA without telling us.

Well...

At least now you know what your DIY juice is missing!

Good luck!

Pete

 

[Hoosier]

Pinell, I understand you're trying to spread a message.

A couple things to help your argument. First, the FDA does not approve of anything relating to PV's and is doing its darnedest to get them off the market. Doing an "only use FDA approved stuff" could turn quite a few vapers who know about this will dismiss your concerns. We use Pharma grade stuff when we can, FDA regulates what can be called that, but they, the FDA, does not approve of what we do with those components. There are very few pharma grade flavorings and the ones I have encountered are pretty nasty and I'm not even sure how adding them to children's oral medicine actually makes it better for the young ones.

Next, there is not always a demon behind every moving shadow. It is possible to make juices that have a full, rich, and satisfying flavor without WTA's. Even hard core, never used a filter with tobacco in his life, tobacco lover like me can mix great tobacco juice without WTA's. (And much better than anything I could buy premade, including those that do use WTA's.) So absolute statement to this effect also hurt your argument.

I agree with you that vendors should disclose the facts to customers and not saying that WTA's are included, or at the very least saying they make the flavoring by soaking tobacco in X, is something that has to change.

 

[pinellaspete]

Hoosier,

The FDA stands for Food and Drug Administration. They are responsible for regulating ANYTHING sold as fit for human consumption.

This is from Wikipedia: The Food and Drug Administration (FDA or USFDA) is an agency of the United States Department of Health and Human Services, one of the United States federal executive departments. The FDA is responsible for protecting and promoting public health through the regulation and supervision of food safety, tobacco products, dietary supplements, prescription and over-the-counter pharmaceutical drugs (medications), vaccines, biopharmaceuticals, blood transfusions, medical devices, electromagnetic radiation emitting devices (ERED), veterinary products, and cosmetics.

All the ingredients we use to make our e-juice are regulated and controlled by the FDA except WTA and nicotine. I 100% agree that you can make REALLY great ejuice without using WTA. That's why I think we should steer clear of it.

The FDA is HUGE in the food industry. I know, I used to work in the food packaging industry. All the ingredients we use and suppliers we purchase from for DIY e-juice have been inspected by the FDA or local heath departments except perhaps the nicotine suppliers. I'm sure the FDA is writing regulations for them as well and will have them in place sometime next year.

PG and VG are FDA approved for human consumption. If you read The Perfumers Apprentice website they show photos of them packaging their flavors in an FDA approved facility. The FDA regulates ALL the ingredients used in food flavorings.

The nicotine suppliers really shouldn't have a hard time with the FDA rules and regulations. They are selling one PURE ingredient. Cleanliness and strength testing of their products will be their biggest worries.

The WTA guys on the other hand, will probably be put out of business. WTA is composed of many different ingredients and the WTA guys don't even know what is in WTA. They just know it tastes great! There has been many scientific studies done on nicotine consumption by humans. There has been ZERO studies on WTA consumption by humans.

Our biggest concern as a DIY'er will be the cost of nicotine after taxes are added on. Stock up now.

I really don't like naming vendors when I talk negative. You need to read the original poster's first message. He names a vendor. That vendor makes some AWESOME tasting juice. I have tried it and it is good. When they first opened for business they openly stated on their website that they used a tobacco extraction process to manufacture their flavors. Look at it today. Except for some fine print buried in the site where they mention using tobacco essence and natural flavors there is no mention of using tobacco extraction. Then you get people like the OP that wonder what their juice is missing and why they can't make great juice like those guys.

I just don't agree with a vendor selling ejuice without telling us the ingredients.(Especially when it is WTA.) Can we make them list their ingredients? Heck no! I bet the FDA does though.

If using analogs wasn't such a political hot potato the FDA wouldn't be so feared here on the ECF. The FDA saves many lives each day making sure our food is safe to eat and restaurants are clean and sanitary.

Hoosier do you remember the huge uproar years ago when it was found out that Chinese restaurants were putting MSG (mono-sodium glutamate)in all their food? The restaurants did that because it made their food TASTE GREAT! They really didn't care that their customer's blood pressure were going through the roof and they were dropping dead of heart attacks. They were selling food that TASTED GREAT! Same thing is happening with WTA.

Pete

 

[Shilo]

Hoosier,

I just don't agree with a vendor selling ejuice without telling us the ingredients.(Especially when it is WTA.) Can we make them list their ingredients? Heck no! I bet the FDA does though.

If using analogs wasn't such a political hot potato the FDA wouldn't be so feared here on the ECF. The FDA saves many lives each day making sure our food is safe to eat and restaurants are clean and sanitary.

None of the juice vendors tell us their recipes- tobacco or not-- I think the FDA regulates coca cola too and to this day their "recipe" is not on the can nor has it been exactly duplicated. I think its best Pete not to incite fear and let people decide for themselves who to buy juice from and if their homemade tobacco juice tastes better than a vendors until laws tell us otherwise. When the FDA steps in further, like they do with everything that is profitable, it will not be out of some noble intention of saving us from the naughty small business juice maker of WTA or to save our health but for the almighty dollar to be in somebody else's pocket.

As I recall the FDA also approved alot of things that ended up being not so good... Vioxx comes to mind, along with thousands of other things.