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Massive Question about Regulation/Testing/FDA

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by BrandonQuits, Sep 17, 2017.

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  1. BrandonQuits

    BrandonQuits Full Member

    Sep 17, 2017
    Canada
    Im curious about this and was trying to find someone to explain it to me.

    I know that Johnson & Johnson make NRT products as well as GlaxoSmithKline do as well. However there was a study in Feb 2017 that came to the conclusion that vaping was 97% safer than smoking which im sure you may have heard of.

    Long-term vaping 'far safer than smoking' says 'landmark' study

    The study also includes NRT but it seems to really glorify vaping the most, even in the headline. If you go to the bottom and click on the "Links to science" hyperlink (which i will provide below here for convenience), it will take you to a page and just under that page's headline there is another link called "disclosure information" that opens a small window and shows you that the research was funded by various cancer research and heart health research organizations but then they talk about the scientist who did the study getting money from Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer and GlaxoSmithKline to conduct this research.

    E-Cigarettes and Toxin Exposure | Annals of Internal Medicine | American College of Physicians

    Here's my question.
    Now, i have heard things about Johnson & Johnson having something to do with the FDA in regulating the use of E cigs, so why would these companies be putting money in the pockets of people who actually did the e cig industry a massive favor by conducting the 97% safer study? What the heck is going on with that? Wouldn't they lose revenue from NRT sales? Or is there even more shadyness going on here? Like They're banking on the fact that somehow these e cigs will make us sick and then they can get their money from us in pharmaceuticals. Which means they left information out of the study. I know i sound like the conspiracy type here but i just wanted to hear someone else's angle on this. Feelin like im on to something. Lol.

    EDIT- I guess my links wont work on here but you can copy n paste the headlines into google if you want to find these studies.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    For years the FDA acted like they would effectively ban ecigs while cigarettes stayed for sale the same as always and it was schedualed to start in August 2018. The Trump administration now says it's put off untill 2022. Whether vaping is "safer" than smoking is a judgement call, subjective. What is objectively true by every measure so far devised is that vaping is far lower risk than smoking.

    Vaping got me off smoking 3 years ago. It's important enough that I have 10-20 years supply of nic, atomizers, and mods, which wasn't so hard because it only cost $650.

    The Feds seem to have backed away from harsh restrictions but there are also State governments to be concerned about. There would be painful spending cuts if most everybody stopped smoking.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  3. Gahh

    Gahh Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 24, 2013
    Bay Shore LI NY
    Here are questions I ask myself and want an honest reply.
    Do I like smoking? Yes. I've always (NOT THINKING ABOUT IT) was happy to light up.
    Is it ok to smoke? No. Through the years we found smoking is terrible and beyond terrible. (MANY KNEW AT THE START)
    Do I like vaping? Yes. I enjoy the flavors way beyond the flavor of a cigarette. I also like the hobby part of vaping. (Collecting tanks, mods, coil re-building & DIY juice chemistry.)
    Is it ok to vape? No. All that lives was to have and enjoy fresh air. (WHICH IS BEING POLLUTED AT A HIGH RATE.)
    Will I continue to vape? Yes. (I WAS STUPID TO START SMOKING AND NOW FOUND VAPING TO CURB THE CRAVINGS OF NICOTINE AND SMOKING HABITS. I CAN TASTE THINGS BETTER. I CAN BREATH EASIER. AND ITS JUST MUCH MORE PLEASANT THAN SMOKING EVER WAS!!)
    We are all creatures of habit, what ever it may be...
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. NealBJr

    NealBJr Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 27, 2013
    Lawrenceville, Ga.

    My guess, would be that Phillip Morris did some heavy research for one of their new tobacco products called iQOS. They submitted, I believe, a million pages to the FDA on their product, and how it is considered safer. They've been test marketing it in Japan and Just released it to Canada. The FDA responded by opening up a new category of tobacco products called Modified Risk Tobacco Products (MRTP). How this new category will be handled by the FDA is unclear, but it's the first "smoking/vaping" product that is classified separately than a traditional cigarette.

    Currently, Ecigarettes are lumped together with regular cigarettes as far as the FDA is concerned. Perhaps Johnson and Johnson is trying to open the door with the FDA to separate the Ecigarettes as well, so as to get their products (namely the Nicorette Quick mist) in a separate category as well. Maybe they have future plans to jump on the Ecig bandwagon and release their own big pharma ecig. :)
     
    • Like Like x 5
  5. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Or, maybe the scientists doing the research (and getting the funding) actually did some objective research and that was what their findings were. Too bad, Nicorette et. al. :)

    That's how it's supposed to work, actually, though it frequently doesn't. Since I like the idea of it working that way, I'm going to assume that's what happened, not some massive conspiracy theory....

    Anna
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. BrandonQuits

    BrandonQuits Full Member

    Sep 17, 2017
    Canada
    I hope that's what it is. But like you said, most times it isn't.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. BrandonQuits

    BrandonQuits Full Member

    Sep 17, 2017
    Canada
    Thanks for the opinion. I'd say those are pretty valid theories.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. djsvapour

    djsvapour ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Oct 2, 2012
    England and Wales
    I believe both tobacco and pharma co.s are hedging their bets.

    Unfortunately, they play their cards in unpredictable ways - often 'spending big' purely on the need to be seen to be doing the right thing, but not always, of course.

    Illness is big business. Tobacco knowingly makes their customers ill and pharma companies just respond in the way that makes them the most money. Both are in it for the cash but I feel tobacco are 95% evil whereas pharma is only partly evil. I would imagine pharma want some fingers in some pies that are not yet ready for the oven. I don't blame them, but trying to decipher the shady world of their rationale behind some of what they do is too complex. US pharma companies are free to charge what they want (it seems) for certain products and the government is almost powerless to act. You pay for it all through your health care. We also pay for it (through our taxes) but we don't have much control either.

    I expect eventually we will have very successful e-cigarette type products from both - they will be extortionate in cost (even some so-called vaping companies have no boundaries on profit margin) and most people will not realize what is going on. That's the way of the world.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  9. Winchester

    Winchester Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 9, 2013
    Califorina
    The whole thing boils down to Money and Big Business i.e. the tobacco companies and the government. Because smoking is on the decline most states are not getting money from the tobacco companies based on sales in that state. Some states spent the money that thought they were going to get from the tobacco companies now they are in trouble. So the tobacco companies and state governments when to the FDA and you are seeing the results. This is why some states are taxing the sale of juice to make up what they lost. Like here in California!
     
    • Like Like x 5
  10. BrandonQuits

    BrandonQuits Full Member

    Sep 17, 2017
    Canada
    Apparently Johnson & Johnson already makes liquid nicotine for Wizard Labs e-juice. I just heard that on another forum.
     
  11. BrandonQuits

    BrandonQuits Full Member

    Sep 17, 2017
    Canada
    I am new to using forums but found more response on Reddit so i will be not as active on this thread and ask anyone who may be interested to join the conversation over here. https://redd.it/70oxwj
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. redeuce

    redeuce Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 11, 2017
    Chicago suburbs
    Wow. Talk about putting a turd in the punch bowl......
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. BrandonQuits

    BrandonQuits Full Member

    Sep 17, 2017
    Canada
    How's that?
     
  14. NealBJr

    NealBJr Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 27, 2013
    Lawrenceville, Ga.
    Yeesh.. went to reddit.. I feel like I need to take a shower.. so much trash talk going around. I dislike reddit for just such a reason.. you post anything, and you'll get a reply saying "you're wrong".

    I feel both Big Pharma and Big Tobacco are not evil per say.. they're both in it for the money. No matter how you look at it, they need to do what needs to be done to make their money. They try to hide or downgrade anything that will hurt their bankroll. Any company would do that.

    I don't feel that one is worse than another. Tobacco played the "healthy" card long time ago, and was caught. Big pharma pulls the "safer/healthier" card all the time, and is often caught. The FDA was called in to help sort all this out, but they got sucked in and ended up being just as bad.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. BrandonQuits

    BrandonQuits Full Member

    Sep 17, 2017
    Canada
    I hear you man. My first day using a forum in my life and it was pretty interesting to see everyone's opinions. heres my conclusion... Im starting to think that these 3 massive pharmaceutical companies are going to take over the e-juice game, well at least the nicotine game. Johnson & Johnson played a role in getting the FDA regulations in place so that small businesses cannot afford to keep going. They can sell it to us and the kicker is that if there are any adverse effects in the coming years then they will also sell us the medications as well. So them funding this kind of research was a win win for them.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. RainSong

    RainSong An adult who likes flavors. Verified Member ECF Veteran

    That makes me thankful for the 20 year supply of nicotine in my freezer already.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. NicotineRush

    NicotineRush Linux Mint/Mate Verified Member ECF Veteran

    EXACTLY. It's ALWAYS about the $$$$

    How much nic is your 20 yr supply?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. NealBJr

    NealBJr Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 27, 2013
    Lawrenceville, Ga.
    That sounds like a very valid reasoning as well. Their first steps would be to get people's, and the FDA's mindset that"nicotine is separate from smoking". Currently, they're thought of one and the same. The next thing would be to try to regulate Nicotine as a drug. They would have to come up with dosages, positive and negative side effects, etc. As you probably already guessed, this would be bad for the ecig industry. The "addictive substance" would have to be hammered in to the FDA, and of course, it would probably have to be handled by the pharmacy. I think this is unlikely, since the Cigarette companies would fight against this, since their products contain nicotine, so they'd fight against this. Of course, both companies claiming the "for the better" reasoning.

    Personally, I would like to see it handled like a food substance. I don't like the idea of having a recommended daily dosage of egglplants. Either that, or have it considered as a homeopathic remedy... Afterall, everyone seems to have a different outlook on nicotine, so let the buyer make their own choice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. dsites

    dsites Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 27, 2017
    Nederland, Colorado
    Interesting article and thanks for posting. Their assertion that dual use had the same results as analog only doesn't make sense (assuming vaping reduced analog use). In any case, I'll settle for a %97 harm reduction any day!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. BrotherBob

    BrotherBob ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Dec 24, 2014
    Sunnyvale,CA,USA
    Welcome and glad you joined.
     
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