Measuring nicotine content; Milligrams per millilitre or percentage of volume.

[leaford]

I came across an article on e-cigs in the USm Free Press ( Building a safer cigarette | The Free Press ) and one of the commentors suggested that expressing the nicotine content of the e-liquid as a percentage of volume was more useful than expressing it by the mg per ml. That's also one of the National Vaper's Club's rules for suppliers to participate in their events, which really rubs me the wrong way.

I just don't get the reasoning. How is percentage of volume USEFUL to the consumer? Especially a new vaper? It seems to me what the consumer needs to know is how the nicotine content in e-liquid compares to the cigs they are used to, and since cigs' nicotine content is measured in mg, so should e-liquids.

Here was my reply:

I would disagree. Percentage of volume doesn't really tell the consumer how it relates to regular cigarette's nicotine content. But you can look up the nicotine content of different cigarette brands in milligrams (here for example: http://pw1.netcom.com/~rdavis2/cigra.html ) and compare that to the mg content of an e-liquid.

For example, Marlboro Reds have 1.1mg nicotine per cigarette, so 22mg per pack. A 1ml cartomizer gives about as many inhalations as a full pack (at least a good brand like Bloog's MaxxFusion does), so our 24mg strength would be the closest match. Marlboro lights, OTOH, are only 0.8mg per cig, so our 16mg strength would be the best match.

Percentage of volume is pretty useless, IMO. All you can do with that is compare different brands of e-liquid, and you can do that just as easily with MG.

Anyway, the questions I'm asking are, what do you guys think is better, and if anyone prefers percentage of volume, why? What does it tell you that mg/ml doesn't?

 

[Valdrak]

Let me give you my opinion, from the view point of some one who is still fairly new to the numbers of everything.

Because I didn't know what the 16mg on my cartos really meant...(until this post, thanks leaford! <3)

First off you have to think of this in terms of who your people are that are purchasing your product. Identify your demographic. Right now it is the hardcore smokers that are intelligent enough to seek this alternative.(and will actually learn about the product prior to using it) Eventually this will be come much more mainstream. As it becomes more mainstream(look at me for example) there are many people that have no idea what the mg on the bottle means.

However, lots of consumers are use to % on say a beer, or wine,(Example: 6% Alcohol by volume) or other types drinking alcohols. It is something they can relate to, and some what understand what they are getting into. From the viewpoint of a typically schooled american.. milligrams are just not understandable to me.

Just my two cents on the matter, the viewpoint of a noob.

 

[leaford]

However, lots of consumers are use to % on say a beer, or wine, or other types drinking alcohols. It is something they can relate to, and some what understand what they are getting into. From the viewpoint of a typically schooled american.. milligrams are just not understandable to me.

Just my two cents on the matter, the viewpoint of a noob.

OK, but what does that percentage TELL you? All I can see it telling you is which is stronger, IOW 16% is stronger than 8%; but MG content tells you that, too, IOW 16mg is stronger than 8mg, doesn't it?

I mean, can you take that nicotine percentage as a newbie and USE it to judge what strength to start with? If so, how? And how is it better for that than mg?

 

[hifistud]

Many newbs have taken the "18mg" to mean 18mg per bottle as opposed to per ml, so a percentage is potentially less confusing.

 

[Valdrak]

The percentage tells me nothing really. Percentages is a process of measuring that a regular every day person is familiar with, something I can understand a lot easier than the mg measuring.

It is not in the slightest a better alternative of measurement to be displayed on the bottle.

There really is no way to know what strength I should start with. I personally didn't know the strength I should vape when I made my first order for any juice of any time. I just sorta winged it, and chose "high"

It is no way a better system than the mg, just simply an easier way for the random newbie to think about the measurements.


This is the only thing that I can think of at the moment, is preparing the easier to understand system for your regular run of the mill customers that don't do the research of the product.

 

[pmos69]

They should at least keep both systems if they want to use %. Mg/ml is just more useful.
If they want to simplify, they should just establish a standard simplified scale (ultra light, light, medium, strong , extra strong, or something like that).

 

[analog]

I don't think it matters, neither is a good reflection of nicotine intake as a smoker, nor that needed as a vaper. The differing absorption rates and routes and the subjective effect on the user are just plain old different. So far as understanding the unit, consumers are either smart enough to know intuitively what either measuring system means, or neither. I really doubt there are many people out there who will understand mg/ml but not % volume.

I didn't see where that article suggested it though, you get the link right?

Nicotine is damn near 1 g/ml, so the only difference really in going by volume or weight is where the decimal goes, right?

Overall I'm happy with mg/ml and see no benefit to changing it.

 

[starsong]

They should at least keep both systems if they want to use %. Mg/ml is just more useful.
If they want to simplify, they should just establish a standard simplified scale (ultra light, light, medium, strong , extra strong, or something like that).

I'm of this school of thought. I had no clue what my cigarettes were in nic content. I just knew ultra light, light, regular, etc. so when I saw things like 24=high, 11=low and I smoked ultra light 100s, I decided I should go for the 11s or less. That's all those numbers meant to me. Even with liquor, we just know that 30 proof is weaker than 80 proof without really knowing what 'proof' means.

 

[Frick]

'Proof' is twice the percentage of alcohol by volume. So, 100 proof liquor is 50% alcohol (ethanol).


An ultra-light, light, etc. system seems practical for new vapers, but the standards would have to be strict (something that isn't happening anytime soon in the vaping world) so that one company's "light" is the same as every other's.

I'm happy with the current system, but only because I learned what I need to keep the analogs away.
If I were starting over, I suppose I'd have no predilection to either system of measure.

 

[analog]

Actually frick, "proof" is a non-standard measurement, it varies depending on where in the world you are. In the US, it is twice the % by volume so 100% alcohol would be 200 proof. But the term originated in the UK and empire where 100 proof is 57.something% abv because that is the minimum strength rum you can spill on gunpowder and still have the gunpowder ignite. The Brittish sailors were paid partly in rum, so their pay barrels were kept locked up with the gunpowder. If the rum leaked, the ship would be defenseless if the rum was too weak. Each barrel had a sample dumped on gunpowder, if it would ignite, that was the "proof" it was strong enough. B this scale 100% alcohol is only 175 proof. The discrepancy between UK and US inspired "proofs" have lead to it being abandoned as an official unit pretty much everywhere in the world.

Clearly I'm a bit of a geek so I know stuff like this. Most people are probably like starsong and just compare the figures with little concept of the units. Personally I don't really care because I will look at whatever the unit is. I think the more important thing is that vendors are consistent and accurate, so mg/ml seems much more standard and easily measured, but I bet the vast majority of juice vendors are actually measuring their nicotine by volume anyway. Kinda silly to sell it as measured by weight if they really measure it by volume, but whatever....

 

[Frick]

Funnily enough, I was aware of the gunpowder/rum origin of 'proof', but unlike some, I didn't want to bog down the thread with a lengthy post regarding it.

I don't think the EU (including the UK) uses 'proof' any more, instead using alcohol percentage as a direct number, but I digress.

So, I'll qualify my statement: In the US, 'proof' is twice the alcohol percentage by volume.

Better? :/

 

[analog]

sorry, I'm a little ocd....

 

[Frick]

It's all good.

 

[twoskinsoneman]

OK, but what does that percentage TELL you?

IMO neither method tells me anything. I'm used to mg/ml so I dig leaving it alone. But if it changes and we go to percent it won't make any difference to me... I will just have to used to 24mg = X% and 18mg = Y%

 

[pmos69]

Funnily enough, I was aware of the gunpowder/rum origin of 'proof', but unlike some, I didn't want to bog down the thread with a lengthy post regarding it.

I don't think the EU (including the UK) uses 'proof' any more, instead using alcohol percentage as a direct number, but I digress.

So, I'll qualify my statement: In the US, 'proof' is twice the alcohol percentage by volume.

Better? :/

Yes, in the EU it's measured by volume %.
But the unit is more commonly expressed as "degrees" (º) with the same meaning.
20º = 20% = 200ml of alchool per liter.

 

[Gardner808]

I don't see how "2.4% Nicotine by Volume" is any more helpful than "24mg/mL". In essence you are just moving the decimal point.

What would be more helpful is the standardization of those numbers and what they MEAN to the consumer. But even that will only be relevant to a small portion of the e-cig consumers. I mean, I really don't even look at the wine, liquor or beer bottle to see how much alcohol it contains. Its beer. I know it will be about 4.5%. Give or take a few percentages. I am not really very concerned about the exact number.

The same should hold true with e-juice. Call one level X-High. X-High = 36mg/ml - 3.6%. This would be the equivalent of a hard liquor. I know when I get this that I am getting A LOT of nicotine. The name implies it and the numbers back it up.

Let's just tie all three pieces together and call it a day. Everyone needs to agree. Create a standard definition then everyone would be using the same terms in the same way. At least until some jackass starts naming the in-between levels like Medium(-) and gives us 16mg instead of 18mg.

 

[starsong]

Well I liked Analog's historical explanation. I think origins are fascinating. So there.

 

[starsong]

At least until some jackass starts naming the in-between levels like Medium(-) and gives us 16mg instead of 18mg.

Ummmmm.... isn't that what Bloog's "medium" is now? I'm telling Leaford you called him a bad name

 

[redempti0N]

I don't see how "2.4% Nicotine by Volume" is any more helpful than "24mg/mL". In essence you are just moving the decimal point.

What would be more helpful is the standardization of those numbers and what they MEAN to the consumer. But even that will only be relevant to a small portion of the e-cig consumers. I mean, I really don't even look at the wine, liquor or beer bottle to see how much alcohol it contains. Its beer. I know it will be about 4.5%. Give or take a few percentages. I am not really very concerned about the exact number.

The same should hold true with e-juice. Call one level X-High. X-High = 36mg/ml - 3.6%. This would be the equivalent of a hard liquor. I know when I get this that I am getting A LOT of nicotine. The name implies it and the numbers back it up.

Let's just tie all three pieces together and call it a day. Everyone needs to agree. Create a standard definition then everyone would be using the same terms in the same way. At least until some jackass starts naming the in-between levels like Medium(-) and gives us 16mg instead of 18mg.

what if they add medium low and medium high?

 

[Gardner808]

Damn. Someone caught that one fast. I'll have to embed my Leaford-snipes a little deeper next time.