Missing safety feature for Temp Control?
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Yes you are correct. It is at least as stable as any other PV if not more so.
The concern for it to actually happens only comes when building a new coil or using a new rba. User neglected loose contacts or unclean threads/contact points will cause the resistance reading to flactuate and the chip may/will switch back to regular kanthel mode and fires it as such.
It should not be so. Nickel should never be used/fired as kanthal wire.
In this sense the chip IMO is overly 'smart'.
As mentioned before, nickel/Temp Control mode as a user chosen mode. Any user would have used nickel in this option and any failure operate properly in this mode should not cause the chip to jumps back to regular kanthal mode.
It should just simply not fire, display TC error, and let user trouble shoot the setup.
The DNA40 is a variable wattage device. It will deliver the same watts (that you select) in temp protect mode or non-temp protect mode, and to a nickel coil, or to a kanthal coil.
Also the DNA40 is limited to 40W. So on a 0.1 ohm coil if you had selected the maximum 40W as your desired wattage the device would deliver 2V at 20A. If your build or atty has a problem and is reading as (say) 1.0 ohm instead of your intended 0.1 ohm, then it would deliver 6.3V at 6.3A instead.
In the few times when I started using TC and the chip fail to register nickel and fires as a regular device, due to user error, it was very very nasty. Very much like when you quench hot metal with water close to you.. The metallic smell of the vapor given off... Common sense will tell you it's not good for your health in general.
Using nickel as khantal(when TC fails) pretty much gave me the same taste/smell. I would suspect it is due to the softer nature and a different chemical compound of the different metal, causing it to ramps up the heat very quickly, too quickly for vaping application.
If you can, you should take a look at the DNA40s' screen when vaping in TC mode. It will heat the nickel coil inside to your predetermined temperature, then backs down the power when it reaches it. Then ramps up again if the temperature falls below.
In regular firing mode(khantal), it will continue firing at the preset wattage regardless of the temperature.. That why many experience burned cotton if the wicking is too slow. Many used this feature to dry burn and 'clean' their coils too.
The fact of the matter is nickel and khantal are 2 very different material for different applications. The device should not switch mode and fires nickel like kanthal and vice versa.
When in regular mode a bad connection will cause the device NOT to fire.. Displaying 'check atomizer' message.
When in TC mode it should work the same way! And not change mode on its own!
Can you imagine if you visit a gas station and the pumps automatically switch to a lower octane or worse, diesel when your choice petrol runs out?! Just so you can continue to drive, or in this case vape on?
Later I will try nickel on my other mech device and rda and actually see how it works ..
Cheers
I think you should check out the screen during a vape. In regular mode the wattage takes centre stage and it varies the voltage to achieve your preset wattage. In TP mode the temperature reading take centre stage, adjusting to higher or lower wattage, to best keep to your preset temperature.
It's a very different thing!
Any device that is Variable wattage simply means you, as a user , can chose your preferred wattage to vape on, and the device will adjust the voltage to provide that. The DNA40 in that sense is no different, apart to having an extra 10W to the DNA30 chipset.
Now what sets the DNA40 apart from its predecessor, and other chipset for vaping, is that now, using the characteristic of nickel wires, NOT KANTHAL!! , it is able to read/sense the temperature of the nickel coil, varies the power/ wattage supplied, and give us Temperature Control!
However it does not actually reads the temperature, but rather some resistance changes in the coils to do that. For details please go to the DNA40 thread. There is a video interview with Evolve on how it works.
Your calculations on the ampere and voltage and what not, may be correct, but your understanding of the temperature control of the DNA40 is very much lacking. Pls, for your healths' sake, read more on the TC feature.. I would think this feature alone is worth the future where vaping is concern.
Cheers
No, Alistairs is still correct. It's a VW device, that simply has an extra set of parameters for limiting wattage based on resistance (or briefly increasing set wattage above set point for pre-heat).
It's still doing all the work by (wait for it), varying wattage.
It's still doing all the work by (wait for it), varying wattage.
yes I do agree. but only to your post. I fail to see how delivery of the same wattage regardless or temp control mode or not, nickel or kanthal can be correct and the same as varying wattage, unless he is referring to the fact that we, as users, specify as so. or is he talking about the dna30? but then he did mentioned temp control??
Chia,
I appreciate your concern, but I am both very familiar and very comfortable with how the DNA40 works. I studied it very carefully when it first came out, and have been using an rDNA40 daily for four months.
My post was in response to another poster who had incorrectly stated that the DNA40 would (a) switch from temp control to "vv" (variable voltage) mode and (b) fire at 90W (3V at 30A). As I tried to explain, the DNA does not have a variable voltage mode - it is variable wattage set by the user, which does not mysteriously change when switching out of temperature mode. Also it is of course limited to 40W.
Ok I'll try this one.
The device is variable wattage as set by the user, and as explained by me previously, except when:
1. in temp protection mode during Preheat
2. in temp protection mode when approaching the (user set) temp limit
3. in either temp protection mode or non-temp protection mode when the device cannot deliver the requested wattage (poor battery condition, resistance range out of spec, etc)
Back to your original question in this thread (which I have not addressed so far)...
Is there a missing safety feature? The Temperature Protection is not user-selectable (you can turn it OFF, but you cannot force it ON), instead the device will enter temp protection mode automatically when it detects rapidly varying resistance when applying power (as presented by Ni200, titanium, for example). However some faults that themselves cause varying resistance (hotspots on coils, poor atty connections, etc) interfere with the device ability to safely operate preheat or Temp Protection, and so the device switches out of temperature protection mode. Whether it should keep going at that point (current implementation) or stop with an error (your suggestion) seems to me more of a design decision than a safety one. You would likely have to take that up with Evolv.
However if you want help from them or folks here figuring out what exactly happened in your case, you will probably need to provide more specific details - atty used, build/gauge/wraps, wicking, juice, resistance, watts, temp set, sequence of events, etc
Later I will try nickel on my other mech device and rda and actually see how it works ..
Um. Strongly not recommended. Your mechs cannot regulate voltage downwards.
Hi Alistair..
It seems to me I have misunderstood your post. And for that I sincerely apologize ..
So we good?
There were some posts earlier that had misunderstood my concerns.. thinking I was trying to rant on the dna40, thus I had reacted poorly..
Anyway I would think your last post summed it up the best.. That it is a design decision.
Again I must stress, vaping has help many, me included, I would like to see the industry getting stronger and stronger, instead of getting bashed by authorities caused by irresponsible vapors doing crazy builds or design oversight(?).
The temp control imo is the best thing for the vaping industry by far.. And I really would see them improving on it, making it more robust and better all round.
Sorry.. And thanx for taking the time to post...
It seems to me I have misunderstood your post. And for that I sincerely apologize ..
So we good?
There were some posts earlier that had misunderstood my concerns.. thinking I was trying to rant on the dna40, thus I had reacted poorly..
Anyway I would think your last post summed it up the best.. That it is a design decision.
Again I must stress, vaping has help many, me included, I would like to see the industry getting stronger and stronger, instead of getting bashed by authorities caused by irresponsible vapors doing crazy builds or design oversight(?).
The temp control imo is the best thing for the vaping industry by far.. And I really would see them improving on it, making it more robust and better all round.
Sorry.. And thanx for taking the time to post...
All the time? Are we suppose to even vape with nickel at say 15W? Happened to me a few times and it was pretty nasty.. ;(
Guys pls dun get me wrong, I m not ranting about the dna40s' flaw.. I m just thinking aloud that since safe vaping is rather the big thing in the design, why not take it 1 step further? It's like the 10 or 15 seconds cutoff for the switch.. It's for added safety.. Why not this? Especially when nickel is not suppose to handle high wattages.. At least not for vaping anyway..
Lastly i need to add is that the situation where it happens is probably 95% user error.. But all vapor are prone to a mistake here and there.. So why not a little more fail safe ?
Cheers guys
I know this post is a couple days old but I don't think that some of your questions were fully addressed yet.
Ni200 can handle any wattage that is appropriate for what it's being used in, it's high temps that are potentially an issue. AFAIK the temps required to make nickel pose a risk are higher than what can be reached unless dry firing or possibly with a bone dry wick.
If you're getting harsh hits when it kicks out of TP mode then you probably have your wattage set too high for the setup, I like to run my nickel builds at 1-2 watts higher than I would with kanthal which would still be fine even if it kicked out of TP mode.
Personally I think that the biggest health risk with using nickel is hot spots, which is why I always check for hot spots before wicking. I don't think that the nickel is the danger itself in that situation but in my limited experience it's easier to get hot spots and harder to detect them with nickel.
hmm.. I usually run at about 16.5w to 18w, at about 0.14ohms-0.16ohms, set at 420F for my tanks and 430F-430F for drippers.. at the lower preset 16.5w it usually does not reach even 400F. higher at 18w is no problem. say at 18w, and the chip does not read the nickel at fires regularly at 18w straight, it is very very harsh. probably due to the high heat, its like having a big hot spot in your coil.
that's actually where my concerns lies.. that it should simply reads 'check atomizer' instead of changing mode on itself. the dna40 is about being able to vaping safely at lower temp, thus avoilding the 500F or so where hazardous fumes are create. I have not tried running nickel at 18w straight with a mech or just simply switching off the TC, but personally I would think its a bad bad idea.
for the average joe like me its just the trial and error method of getting setup right. getting a bad vape is just part and parcel of the learning. just sayin it does not have to be this way, when an error message would suffice.
I have email Evolve regarding this matter. sincerely hope they can consider it, but given I m no high profile youtube reviewer or a somebody, I was hoping someone of a better standing in the community might read the thread and think it worth their time to better pursue the matter.
cheers1
Yes we're goodHi Alistair..
It seems to me I have misunderstood your post. And for that I sincerely apologize ..
So we good?
There were some posts earlier that had misunderstood my concerns.. thinking I was trying to rant on the dna40, thus I had reacted poorly..
Anyway I would think your last post summed it up the best.. That it is a design decision.
Again I must stress, vaping has help many, me included, I would like to see the industry getting stronger and stronger, instead of getting bashed by authorities caused by irresponsible vapors doing crazy builds or design oversight(?).
The temp control imo is the best thing for the vaping industry by far.. And I really would see them improving on it, making it more robust and better all round.
Sorry.. And thanx for taking the time to post...
I agree the temp protection is a very good development. I look forward to seeing what comes next.
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