Mixing my own and trying to work out the bugs...

[Jeffersonian]

Hi folks,
I've started mixing my own and I'm trying to work out the bugs. If I can figure out what chemical is doing what it would go a long way towards coming up with a mix I can live with. I don't really care about flavor that much as long as it's not terrible. I've found most flavors are like drinking a cream soda...wonderful at first but kind of a gross out before you're done.
But anyway, I'm not sure what in my mix is irritating the tip of my tongue. I know it's the PG that chaps my lips but leaning heavy on the VG makes me cough, so I guess I'm stuck with chapped lips. I must be messing something up on the calculator. If I mix what I think is 18mg I get the hiccups which means too much nicotine. I handle 24mg of the store bought stuff without batting an eye so I must be way off. I took it down to (what I think is) 5mg and that seems alright. I know mixes work differently using those big vaporizers vs. the little pens that I use..(I just pop the cap on a clean cig. It's more like a real cigarette to me and I can't get anything else to keep working more than a few weeks.
So I'm at a 60/40 PG/VG..and I'm getting close. If I can tweak it to no irritated tongue and dry lips, life would be ducky. Any experienced tips before I go through several more 5ml batches trying to get it right?

 

[Old Greybeard]

Hi @Jeffersonian,

I'm not a nicotine guru, others on here will be much more switched on as to volumes etc, here in Europe with TPD etc. our measures are totally different so I don't want to confuse things.

One thing struck me though, it might not be the nic or the flavours that is the issue though, have you thought about your coil and atomiser setup? I know I've found a few attys are prone to that as your tongue will be the first bit of your mouth to come in contact with the juice. As the coil is closer to your tongue in certain setups, if the juice is spitting it will cause this. I fix thistby tighter wicking and using spaced coils reducing the wattage if required. I don't know what setup you've got, so I might be completely barking up the wrong tree if you are using pre-manufactured coils.

Welcome to ECF, BTW.

 

[Jeffersonian]

Appreciate your reply, Greybeard!
That could be a consideration but what I use is a small pen type Clean Cig where the cartridges are supposed to be disposable. I just pop the cap on the disposable cartridge and refill it. Works great for me.
I know it's not the Clean cig because I have a bottle of 24mg store bought liquid here and i can put it in without any irritation. The stuff I'm mixing I can feel on the tip of my tongue and my lips. There are only four ingredients so it shouldn't be terribly difficult to figure out which is the culprit. I can mix a dozen more batches of 5 ml figuring it out but I'll bet someone here has already made this mistake and save me a lot of fuss.
Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

When the flavor gets muted, I re-wick.

oh, cartridges...

 

[Hawise]

Welcome, Jeffersonian!

With the PG/VG sensitivity, suitable levels are very personal. High VG makes my chest heavy, but I'm fine at about 60%. Others with the same problem need to keep it down to 30 - 40%. I'm afraid it really comes down to trial and error to figure out what you need.

Your symptom attribution sounds reasonable. PG is most likely to cause dryness, while VG sensitivity is more likely to result in wheezyness, heavy chest or coughing. However, flavours, nicotine and heat can also cause those problems. I have a few suggestions that might help you work things out:

• Have you tried making unflavoured juice? You might like it in the long term since you're not overly impressed by the flavours you've tried, but even if you just try it once or twice it could help you find out whether flavours are contributing to any of your problems.
• Repeatedly running warm vapour over your tongue might be contributing to the tongue-tip issue. As silly as it sounds, you might want to try sticking your tongue somewhere else so the tip isn't constantly hit by warm vapour. Additionally, drink lots of water to keep your mouth from getting too dry.
• If there are bugs in your juice, you do need to refine your technique. Flies can be removed with tweezers. Gnats usually need to be strained out.

Unreliable nicotine levels can cause all sorts of issues, so I'll recommend a direct approach to that problem. Just let us know:

• What concentration of nicotine base you're using, and if it's freebase or nic salts.
• How much you added to make 5 ml of 5 mg/ml juice.
• How much you added to make 5 ml of 18 mg/ml juice.

We'll be happy to look at your calculations and see what, if anything, went wrong.

 

[SP013]

Hi,

I had the same when i started on 50/50 juices, but when I started mixing I am adding more VG than PG, which for me turned it into a lot smoother vape. I suggestyou try something like 55vg/45. Just make 1 ml and dont add any flavoring or nicotine just to see how you feel with the ratio, if it makes you cough take down the vg slightly, if it irritates your tongue or throat put up the vg. Nicotine in general shouldnt be the issue I think, unless you really have massive nicotine levels.

 

[SP013]

LOL on the bug tip part @Hawise

 

[ArminF]

Dry Lips, Dry Mouth sounds to me like PG and or Nicotine. The Propylene Glycol (PG) in your E-Liquid can cause your mouth to dry out very quickly. PG molecules are hygroscopic, which bond with water molecules. PG is antibacterial

Since i vape 60VG/40PG with 8 Nic i my mouth feels "dryer" as before. But i just drink more water and feel good. If i have a mixture of 50PG or more PG i get dizzy. So PG does something with my body. Maybe reduce the PG on your mixtures and calculate any flavouring within the PG as most of them use PG as base. 10% of flavour would mean 10% less PG on the base.

Attached is an example of 100 ML with 20% Flavouring (MTL pods or small devices) with 8 MG Nic.
48 to 55 MG Nic a day feels OK for my body. Was used to 1.5 Pack Red Lucky Strikes before. It is in German but i think you get the idea. I use 72MG PG base. Not salt. Salt is different. Afaik a 50 MG Salt is like a 27 FB Nic.

Sometimes a take a small glas of warm water (shotglass) and use the amount of flavouring in drops to taste what i want to mix. 10% can be 10 drops and so on. Then take a bit into your mouth and taste it.

Also take your fingertip and dry each component of your base. Once i had a bitter VG. Ok maybe not with the nicotine. They usually have a bitter taste.

And please state details of your components so i can adjust the calculation for you.

PS: If you want to play/calculate around i can share (and translate) my excel calculator.

 

[Jeffersonian]

Wow! Thanks for the replies! I use the Steam calculator for 5ml. Flavor 1=9% (just one flavor of cream tobacco)
Nicotine strength 100mg/ml I bought both saltz and freebase but didn't notice a difference.
Target 18mg/ml (this might be the issue? Seems I saw somewhere someone saying 18mg is expressed as 1.8 but that doesn't make any sense to me. Anyway 18mg gave me the hiccups so I know that's way too much nic. I dropped it to 6mg on the calculator which should have put me into the Nicotine DTs but seemed to be enough.
VG/PG ratio varying 40/60 50/50 70/40 This batch was 40 VG 60 PG
Recipe Nicotine base (PG) 0.93g Flavor 1 (PG) .47g VG 2.48g PG 1.75g Sum 5.63g

I appreciate ya'll taking the time. I was expecting to get chewed out with "Read the rules on the side punk! Those questions have been answered a hundred times!"

 

[greek mule]

I was expecting to get chewed out with "Read the rules on the side punk! Those questions have been answered a hundred times!"

Never such behavior in here.People of ECF love to help each other no matter how many times a question has being made.

 

[Zazie]

And that's just one of the reasons this place is great.

 

[My Batt Hurts]

Just clocked that your nic is PG based, so that probably means trying distilled water instead might not work so well. Shame - it's a nice vape and feels just a little less dry.

Oh - and another vote for unflavoured.

 

[BrotherBob]

leaning heavy on the VG makes me cough, so I guess I'm stuck with chapped lips.

Welcome and glad you joined.
Suggest you try 100 VG, no nicotine, ~2.5 ohm, 3mm ID single kanthal A1 30-32 ga. coil at lowest watts in a RDA with a new wick.If the above set up makes you cough, vaping may not be for you.
If the set up does not make you cough, I would adjust parameters slowly to suit based on physical responses.
Might like to read:
Drip Vaping: Your Guide to Dripping e-Juice | Vape-Resource.com
http://spinfuel.com/art-drip-guide-vaping/
(7) Information Resources for Your First RBA | E-Cigarette Forum
Atomizer vs. Cartomizer vs. Clearomizer. The Ultimate Guide
Wrapping Building Coils 101 For Beginners
RBA Vape Guide: RDA, RTA, Genesis, and More

 

[charlie1465]

Recipe Nicotine base (PG) 0.93g Flavor 1 (PG) .47g VG 2.48g PG 1.75g Sum 5.63g
I appreciate ya'll taking the time. I was expecting to get chewed out with "Read the rules on the side punk! Those questions have been answered a hundred times!"

I've just punched a 5ml recipe in to elr at 60/40 VG/Pg and got this...

Nic in pg @ 100mg/ml = 0.93g
PG =1.14g
VG =3.79g

I left out flavour for now....your measurements are spot on so the only thing I can think of is that your nic may be stronger than you think?

If someone else hasn't suggested it try making the above zero flavour mix to rule out the flavour.

Only other thing I can think of is that you're putting too much nic in. How are you measuring?

Good luck

 

[Hawise]

Recipe Nicotine base (PG) 0.93g Flavor 1 (PG) .47g VG 2.48g PG 1.75g Sum 5.63g

Sounds about right for 18 mg/ml. I've just had another thought, though. Nic levels are often referred to in milligrams when people actually mean milligrams per millilitre, so I assumed that's what you were doing. However, it's possible that Clean Cig actually means there are 18 mg (or 24 or 9 or whatever) per cartridge, not per ml. If they're doing that and they get 3.5 ml or so into a cartridge, then the 18 mg cartridges would be about 5 mg/ml. It would be a bit unusual, but since your recipe looks good it's the only other thing I can think of. Unless you've got hold of 250 mg/ml or 200 mg/ml base without noticing, of course.

In any case, I think you've already identified the best approach - use the level of nicotine that works for you.

 

[Jeffersonian]

Appreciate the feedback guys. I've finally figured out it's the PG that's wearing out my lips and tongue. I think I'm getting close on something that works. It looks like just slight variations in accuracy make a big difference which might be tricky. The calculator only asks if the flavor is PG or VG based and the flavor I have is a PG/VG mix. Also I'm not sure I trust my new scale because it tends to flutter a bit. I might have to buy an expensive one. Good investment though considering I pay $12 bucks for 30ml that I can now make for less than a dollar.
I'm surprised nicotine is giving me trouble. I've been vaping 24mg of the store bought stuff and just cutting down to 18mg makes me hit it twice as much. I shouldn't be getting the hiccups from the 18mg that I'm mixing unless something is wrong. I'm an old nic. addict and the only time I ever got the hiccups was when I was dipping to cut down on smoking.
I bought a bottle of salt and freebase. 10% (100mg/ml) The salt sounded good in the description, supposedly smoother, but it gives me a little dizzy feeling which is kind of scary.
I've been vaping a long time so I'm pretty sure 'vaping is right for me'. It's kept me off cigarettes for years now. The only problem I've ever had with it is the expense, chapped lips and dry skin around my nose, and finding a vaporizer that lasts. I've got a drawer full of those space age .... looking monstrosities that don't last any time at all so that's why I just refill a clean-cig cartridge. It works for me and I'm pleased with it.
Looks like I'm going to need a Masters in Chemistry before I figure this out though. If I get a formula that doesn't that doesn't chap my lips, burn my tongue and saves me lots of money and not having to run to the vape shop every week it will be worth it.
Again, thanks for helping me noodle this out. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box so it's going to take some time.

 

[Letitia]

I would try 65vg/35 peg 400/5% distilled water for a base. Peg 400 is a pg substitute. LNW and NR both carry the peg400.

 

[Jeffersonian]

Peg 400...that's a new one on me. A PG substitute sounds like a winner as long as it doesn't cause Mad Cow Jungle Rot lung or make your hair fall out. I'll do some homework on it.
I haven't heard of using water for a base. I'll have to research that too. Thanks for the tips!