Mod Batteries from FastTech and Ebay

[CommaHolly]

Happened to me recently with fast tech,,,,,,

I ordered a kit and 2 extra batteries (above and beyond what came in the kit) that were offered in the drop down "related items" menu,,,,,,,

a bit of research and I discovered that I ordered the wrong kind of batteries,,,,,,

I was able to cancel them before they shipped, however, and reorder the correct ones.

Please be careful,,,,,,,,,,,

ask. Really, it's ok. You won't look dumb.

 

[Train2]

I don't know bout your subohm use - but for general purposes, I checked out those batteries pretty carefully back before I bought them (it was my first rechargable battery order), and they're solid.
I got em from FastTech, and I DO trust that FastTech is selling things AS ADVERTISED regarding what brand something is.
But it DEFINITELY bothers me that they're not properly separating batteries that are OK for PVs from those that are not.
Hopefully they'll do something about it...

I just bought a mech and panasonic ncr18650pd batteries. Thought I would double check to see if these are safe. believe they have a 10 amp limit and according to the ohms law calc I should be able to go down to .5ohms at a 4 v charge and still be under that limit at 8 amps. Most likly wont go that low tthough.

 

[stevegmu]

I wouldn't buy from either. I'd only buy oem batteries. Just wouldn't trust cheaper replacements. Oddly, I am yet to find a store that sells imr high drain batteries. Not an online store or a vape shop, but a store like lowes or best buy. Aren't these batteries used in anything other than PVs?

 

[Baditude]

I wouldn't buy from either. I'd only buy oem batteries. Just wouldn't trust cheaper replacements. Oddly, I am yet to find a store that sells imr high drain batteries. Not an online store or a vape shop, but a store like lowes or best buy. Aren't these batteries used in anything other than PVs?

The people that we get most of the recommendations for the Lithium Ion and Li-Mn IMR batteries from are people who depend upon high end flashlights and batteries...perhaps miners or cable line workers. They sometimes trust their jobs and lives with these batteries, so they take them very seriously.

It's true, you won't find the batteries that we use in mods in hardware stores, Walmart, or even Batteries Plus. Only vape shops or specialized online vendors that deal with vape supplies.

That's why I think FastTech is unaware of what they are doing concerning the type of batteries that they are offering in their kits. They apparently only recently have been dealing with e-cig supplies, and those people haven't researched or been trained adequately to to know what batteries are appropriate or safe.

 

[stevegmu]

Where do those people get them from? I looked at the Fastenall and McMaster-Carr catalogs and only found low drain lithium batteries.

 

[Baditude]

Orbtronic is an online vendor that carries Li Ion and IMR high drain. I'm sure there are others. I tend to buy all my batteries and chargers from RTD Vapor.

The RC (remote control) hobbyists also use these batteries, but even they use the Li Po batteries more. There's so many classes of batteries its hard for me to keep up with them. I'm still learning about them myself.

I had a protected battery vent violently in one of my mechanical mods not long after I got my first mod. It made an impression on me. Since then, I don't really trust most of the protected Li Ion batteries. I believe that IMR is a far safer battery for our uses, and the trend seems to be going in that direction. It used to be people said you had to use a protected battery in a mod. Not so much any more.

 

[tA71ana]

My view is when in doubt, get IMR High Drain batts.
I have Efest IMR and Panasonic Hybrid IMR.
I just got my first mech the other day (K100) and I use my Efests and Pannys with a Smoktech Vape Fuse.

Just some food for thought.
Before vaping, I had never used a rechargeable battery...for ANYTHING. I didn't know there were all of these different batteries with all these different chemistrys.
Unless someone clues in a new vaper that what they need is IMRs (or you discover ECF) , folks won't know what the heck kind of battery to get and will trust that the person selling them the kit knows what they are selling.
Research is key, but one has to know exactly where to start.
I was lucky to have found ECF, but there are those new vapers who have not found us yet.
There should be some kind of a universal handout with uniform instructions/cautions that can be given to folks who buy mods regarding basic battery safety, types of batteries to use (ie. chemistry type/protected or unprotected) and under what circumstances a fuse should be used in a device and under what circumstances it is not needed (ie, regulated device).
I get my batts from RTD Vapor...they know their stuff.
Batteries/chargers are not the thing to skimp on.
Just my 0.02

 

[sonicdsl]

In addition to the information above, I suggest this post from Rolygate is an excellent resource as well:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

 

[sawtoothscream]

How much are you willing to invest? What's your price range? You want to know the top two, or middle of the road?

How many batteries do you need to charge on a daily basis? What size and how many sizes?

How many mods do you currently own, and how many do you guess you might have after a year's time?

I ask because the top chargers only have two, maybe four charging bays. There's a couple mid-range chargers that can accomodate six batteries at once.

RTD has all of their chargers available on display on one page: Battery chargers at RTD Vapor

only the mech mod I have coming and two 18650 batteries, my others are ego style. probably mid road, not rich here. only have to charge 2 batterys

was looking at the nitecore since the price looks good

 

[Baditude]

In addition to the information above, I suggest this post from Rolygate is an excellent resource as well:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

Sonicdsl, I include that link as one of my resources in my "Batteries for Mods: IMR or Protected" http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/baditude/4848-9-battery-basics-mods-imr-protected.html

I'm wondering if my article could be considered worthy to be a sticky for the New Members or General Forum? There does seem to be a lot of confusion about what batteries novices should put into their first mods.

 

[tA71ana]

Sonicdsl, I include that link as one of my resources in my "Batteries for Mods: IMR or Protected" http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/baditude/4848-9-battery-basics-mods-imr-protected.html

I'm wondering if my article could be considered worthy to be a sticky for the New Members or General Forum? There does seem to be a lot of confusion about what batteries novices should put into their first mods.

It would be great to find a printer who could print small accordion - type handouts with this type of info that could be used to give to people at the point of sale. Uniform safety/battery standards..logistically, I don't know how complicated that could be.
Vape shops could purchase them and hand them out with a mod purchase.
Small but relatively comprehensive.

 

[rolygate]

Please don't buy cheap batteries. Buy the best batteries you can afford, and if you can't afford to buy safe batteries then you can't afford to vape.

Somebody needs to point out that buying batteries from a company that specialises in clones and counterfeits is, as a matter of logic, not a great idea. Sorry but it had to be said.

The biggest danger in batteries is counterfeiting. After that comes not telling you what the battery type is on the product page, and then selling it with a crazy and impossible capacity rating like 1200mAh for a tiny cheap battery.

The Ultrafire batts on the page linked to are plain, unprotected Li-ion cells and with a ridiculously high capacity rating. They may well be genuine but any *fire battery is just one grade above unlabelled cheapos.

These are the type you don't use in an APV and especially YOU MUST NOT STACK THEM. This is how people get an explosion in their face - using two cells of this type, in series, in a sealed metal tubemod, is a great way to get a week in intensive care at your local hospital. If a battery fails and/or the charger is faulty and/or there is a fault on the APV and/or there is user error (like inserting the batteries in reverse) then it is possible to get a chain failure event and occasionally this has resulted in an explosion. This is always right in front of the face and typically on the first use of freshly-charged cells.

DON'T USE CHEAP BATTERIES - THE COST COULD BE MORE THAN YOU BARGAINED FOR.

The reason why people advise the use of AW batteries is not just because they are good quality but also because if you buy from an authorised distributor then you should get a genuine product, not a counterfeit. Counterfeit batteries are highly dangerous.

The ideal batteries to use in modern devices are IMR (Li-Mn) or Panasonic-type hybrid cells. If you need two stacked cells for a plain 6v APV then the type to use is Li-Po 3v cells (Li-FePo4), which are generally recognised as the safest of all. They have some practical drawbacks though, which are that they are 3.3v cells (lower voltage than usual), they need a special charger, and above all you have to be absolutely certain they are not counterfeit (because if they are, they could be plain vanilla Li-ion cells of the lowest possible quality, that is to say the worst possible choice to stack in a metal tubemod). Genuine Tenergy Li-Po's are OK for stacking except they are heavily counterfeited.

One of the biggest problems we have in the ecig world is counterfeiting. This means clones made to exactly resemble the original, down to false labels or markings and serial numbers that make the item appear genuine. Fakes are dangerous when the product is something used directly in front of the face, draws a very high current (electrical load) for the size of the device, depends critically on genuine parts of high quality for its safety, involves the use of batteries that could be counterfeit, involves the use of diabolically poor design of equipment with no gas venting, is sold by overseas vendors known for shortcuts / faking and being outside the law, and has a history of putting people in hospital due to user errors combined with fakes / bad design / material failures. So you can see that this is a bad area to take chances in order to save a couple of bucks.

We made a decision on ECF that no vendor would be banned for selling dangerous rubbish, because they could simply sell their trash elsewhere, so there was no point. However it means we have a duty to inform people of the issues.

People need to be informed that buying sealed metal tubemods or unprotected Li-ion cells are intrinsically dangerous actions and can never be called safe whatever anyone says about it. Using the two together is elevating the risk to unacceptable levels. Using stacked fake/unprotected Li-ion cells in a sealed metal device is lunacy and there is no other way to describe it. In the flashlight world, where they have huge numbers of units out there (many more than we have of the same sort of device), one of the experts on the Candlepower forum estimated they have 1 in 3,000 units explode when used in dangerous mode: stacked unprotected Li-ion cells in a sealed metal tube (which is what a flashlight is). The difference is theirs go bang in a hand or a pocket (read the links on our battery page). Ours explode in the face. Ecigs have much higher risk than flashlights because they are used inserted into the mouth - if something goes wrong then that will be the worst $20 you ever saved. Speak to the guy who advised his friend what APV to buy, then had to visit him in the intensive care unit where the wrong batteries in the wrong APV had put him. Three days in a coma, intubated, after a series of operations to remove metal shrapnel from the back of his throat after the explosion, to fix facial damage, to remove broken teeth, to fix a damaged jaw, and a series of eye operations to remove shrapnel to look forward to. Maybe then you will figure out that saving a few bucks on batteries and a clone/counterfeit device with lousy design in the first place might not be good for your health. It's your decision.

You may be OK with the risk, if you consider your face and eyesight to be disposable - but the publicity when it blows up is not too good for vaping. If it were possible to keep the problem to yourself alone, you could justifiably say it's nobody else's business; but when the global media pick up on it (as they do now they know there's a good story there), it's no longer just your business and nobody else's. In one of these incidents the Police, Fire Department, and local hospital were all involved (as they will be) and all wrote reports which were leaked to the media. The result is that 'ecigs are dangerous'.

No they aren't. People who buy cheap batteries and sealed metal tubemods from firms specialising in fakes who don't have a clue what they are selling and don't care anyway and only want to make a fast buck no matter the cost to anyone else and are located in China so they can't be held accountable at law are dangerous.

This problem had mostly been fixed by US vendors because of the huge lawsuits hanging over those who thought there was no problem. In other words, they became sensible, when they saw what the alternative was: bankruptcy and jail. That doesn't apply to China vendors as they can sell highly dangerous materials without any fear of redress. Some of them clearly don't have a clue what they are doing and don't care anyway.

There are good reasons why you should support local vendors. One of them is that you probably place some value on your face.

 

[SissySpike]

Everything in the above post has been said in this thread and here it is again all wrapped up in one post. For you bargain hunters its not a bargain if it ruins your equipment damages your property or causes you injury. Just because it hasn't happened to you YET

Your

Eligible

To

Yet dose not mean it cant.

This is not someone telling you your evil for buying clones , so on and so fourth. Its people who have had experiences or have done the research and are trying to look out for your best interest.

I hope everyone who reads this thread tells a friend and 6 months from now when a noob post about their awesome fastech buy someone educates them.

Pier pressure can be a good thing. If we as a community promote the safest batteries it can have a positive affect out side of our little community here.

 

[tj99959]

Please don't buy cheap batteries. Buy the best batteries you can afford, and if you can't afford to buy safe batteries then you can't afford to vape.

Somebody needs to point out that buying batteries from a company that specialises in clones and counterfeits is, as a matter of logic, not a great idea. Sorry but it had to be said.

The biggest danger in batteries is counterfeiting. After that comes not telling you what the battery type is on the product page, and then selling it with a crazy and impossible power rating like 1200mAh for a tiny cheap battery.

The Ultrafire batts on the page linked to are plain, unprotected Li-ion cells and with a ridiculously high power rating. They may well be genuine but any *fire battery is just one grade above unlabelled cheapos.

These are the type you don't use in an APV and especially YOU MUST NOT STACK THEM. This is how people get an explosion in their face - using two cells of this type, in series, in a sealed metal tubemod, is a great way to get a week in intensive care at your local hospital. If a battery fails and/or the charger is faulty and/or there is a fault on the APV and/or there is user error (like inserting the batteries in reverse) then it is possible to get a chain failure event and occasionally this has resulted in an explosion. This is always right in front of the face and typically on the first use of freshly-charged cells.

DON'T USE CHEAP BATTERIES - THE COST COULD BE MORE THAN YOU BARGAINED FOR.

The reason why people advise the use of AW batteries is not just because they are good quality but also because if you buy from an authorised distributor then you should get a genuine product, not a counterfeit. Counterfeit batteries are highly dangerous.

The ideal batteries to use in modern devices are IMR (Li-Mn) or Panasonic-type hybrid cells. If you need two stacked cells for a plain 6v APV then the type to use is Li-Po 3v cells (Li-FePo4), which are generally recognised as the safest of all. They have some practical drawbacks though, which are that they are 3.3v cells (lower voltage than usual), they need a special charger, and above all you have to be absolutely certain they are not counterfeit (because if they are, they could be plain vanilla Li-ion cells of the lowest possible quality, that is to say the worst possible choice to stack in a metal tubemod). Genuine Tenergy Li-Po's are OK for stacking except they are heavily counterfeited.

One of the biggest problems we have in the ecig world is counterfeiting. This means clones made to exactly resemble the original, down to false labels or markings and serial numbers that make the item appear genuine. Fakes are dangerous when the product is something used directly in front of the face, draws a very high current (electrical load) for the size of the device, depends critically on genuine parts of high quality for its safety, involves the use of batteries that could be counterfeit, involves the use of diabolically poor design of equipment with no gas venting, is sold by overseas vendors known for shortcuts / faking and being outside the law, and has a history of putting people in hospital due to user errors combined with fakes / bad design / material failures. So you can see that this is a bad area to take chances in order to save a couple of bucks.

We made a decision on ECF that no vendor would be banned for selling dangerous rubbish, because they could simply sell their trash elsewhere, so there was no point. However it means we have a duty to inform people of the issues.

People need to be informed that buying sealed metal tubemods or unprotected Li-ion cells are intrinsically dangerous actions and can never be called safe whatever anyone says about it. Using the two together is elevating the risk to unacceptable levels. Using stacked fake/unprotected Li-ion cells in a sealed metal device is lunacy and there is no other way to describe it. In the flashlight world, where they have huge numbers of units out there (many more than we have of the same sort of device), one of the experts on the Candlepower forum estimated they have 1 in 3,000 units explode when used in dangerous mode: stacked unprotected Li-ion cells in a sealed metal tube (which is what a flashlight is). The difference is theirs go bang in a hand or a pocket (read the links on our battery page). Ours explode in the face. Ecigs have much higher risk than flashlights because they are used inserted into the mouth - if something goes wrong then that will be the worst $20 you ever saved. Speak to the guy who advised his friend what APV to buy, then had to visit him in the intensive care unit where the wrong batteries in the wrong APV had put him. Three days in a coma, intubated, after a series of operations to remove metal shrapnel from the back of his throat after the explosion, to fix facial damage, to remove broken teeth, to fix a damaged jaw, and a series of eye operations to remove shrapnel to look forward to. Maybe then you will figure out that saving a few bucks on batteries and a clone/counterfeit device with lousy design in the first place might not be good for your health. It's your decision.

You may be OK with the risk, if you consider your face and eyesight to be disposable - but the publicity when it blows up is not too good for vaping. If it were possible to keep the problem to yourself alone, you could justifiably say it's nobody else's business; but when the global media pick up on it (as they do now they know there's a good story there), it's no longer just your business and nobody else's. In one of these incidents the Police, Fire Department, and local hospital were all involved (as they will be) and all wrote reports which were leaked to the media. The result is that 'ecigs are dangerous'.

No they aren't. People who buy cheap batteries and sealed metal tubemods from firms specialising in fakes who don't have a clue what they are selling and don't care anyway and only want to make a fast buck no matter the cost to anyone else and are located in China so they can't be held accountable at law are dangerous.

This problem had mostly been fixed by US vendors because of the huge lawsuits hanging over those who thought there was no problem. In other words, they became sensible, when they saw what the alternative was: bankruptcy and jail. That doesn't apply to China vendors as they can sell highly dangerous materials without any fear of redress. Some don't have a clue what they are doing and don't care anyway.

There are good reasons why you should support local vendors. One of them is that you probably place some value on your face.

Are you listening ZEN ????

It still amazes me that Smoktech got raked over the coals, and forced to change their design of their mechanical PV yet nothing gets said about the fancy ZEN with no vents.

 

[crxess]

Application - Application - Application

First thing I noticed when trying to follow the Initial post was contradiction via links.
Discussion of a specific battery with a Known possible Danger if used in an improper application. Then a link to a Discontinued product formarly sold by DV which had ICR batteries.

The Particular Battery may or may not be JUNK, as I have none I cannot specify. However many ICR batteries work well in APV applications and are the most widely supplied type in APV kits. (The no name Blue Batteries)
Smoktech also sells a very well performing ICR in a 500mah which I personally use with a Kick(Protection) @ 7-8w

Do I recommend any of these Batteries - No - not that you should or should not use one. You must gather Facts and make wise decisions. I generally recommend Hybrid Batteries due to less likely explosive results. However it is the total package that must be considered. Application!
Even the most trusted AW IMR can wreak Havoc if improperly used.
(2) recent incidents.
1 - User fell asleep and pinched device between body and bedding causing continuous firing and super heating.
2 - User placed Unlocked in pocket and unit started firing until super heated and panic indued. Minor burns to fingers.

Application - Using the correct power supply in the correct device under the proper conditions to maximize safety and minimize chances of a mishap or injury.

 

[Baditude]

I wish to personally thank Rolygate for responding to this topic. He has been a leader and battery guru here on ECF for 5 years. He knows about batteries inside and out and I have learned much from his articles on battery safetey.

The deceptive practices that middleman vendors use to make a quick buck from unsuspecting consumers must always be kept in the back of your mind when you choose to purchase from unauthorized dealers. Always keep in mind that overseas vendors are not held to the same standards that the rest of the free world are held accountable for. A big thankyou to Rolygate for all of his shared information and hard work which he has done for ECF members.

 

[SissySpike]

Application - Application - Application

First thing I noticed when trying to follow the Initial post was contradiction via links.
Discussion of a specific battery with a Known possible Danger if used in an improper application. Then a link to a Discontinued product formarly sold by DV which had ICR batteries.

The Particular Battery may or may not be JUNK, as I have none I cannot specify. However many ICR batteries work well in APV applications and are the most widely supplied type in APV kits. (The no name Blue Batteries)
Smoktech also sells a very well performing ICR in a 500mah which I personally use with a Kick(Protection) @ 7-8w

Do I recommend any of these Batteries - No - not that you should or should not use one. You must gather Facts and make wise decisions. I generally recommend Hybrid Batteries due to less likely explosive results. However it is the total package that must be considered. Application!
Even the most trusted AW IMR can wreak Havoc if improperly used.
(2) recent incidents.
1 - User fell asleep and pinched device between body and bedding causing continuous firing and super heating.
2 - User placed Unlocked in pocket and unit started firing until super heated and panic indued. Minor burns to fingers.

Application - Using the correct power supply in the correct device under the proper conditions to maximize safety and minimize chances of a mishap or injury.

The first thing I noticed in your post is the contradiction in all of the good advise given in this thread. Using no name batteries is just not a good choice with a kick or other wise.

It is a given if you misuse your equipment weather intentional or buy accident you could end up with battery failure. To make it a no brainier for the average consumer if you buy Batteries from a trusted battery supplier like RTD you will not have issues with battery quality and or chargers also.

If you are not sure what batteries to purchase its as easy as shooting a email to the guys at RTD what mod you are using and what delivery systems you intend to use and they will be more than happy to advise you what batteries to use.

No RTD is not the only battery supplier but they are the only one I use so I can only recommend them. They are there specifically for vapors so they are aware of our battery needs.

In a perfect world everyone would do research and know all of the ins and outs and there would be no clones all merchants would care more for your safety than getting your dollar, but none of that is reality.

So buy from a trusted battery supplier ask questions before you purchase if your unsure and you cant go wrong or use no names or any battery that will fit cross your fingers and hope nothing bad happens.

 

[crxess]

Not trying to contradict GOOD advice at all. As I stated I never recommend anything except GOOD hybrid types. AW and Panasonic are my preferred batteries.

My opening was as to something that may cause contradictions. Yes all the Blue Batteries are No Name. SmokTech is a Brand Name.
Does Smoktech make batteries? no
Would I order a box full of unknown batteries from China - Not on your life.
As much as Brand, I purchase ONLY from US suppliers.
1 - I check specifications
2 - I check reputation based on consumer use.
3 - I make sure My wife can sue the heck out of someone if they lied and I'm injured or worse.
4 - I have been around and using Batteries in my Daily life - All my life. 40+ years in DC electronics.

I tend to be forgetful that many are easily misled and can make bad decisions. For that my apology.

We also Cannot just assume a trusted US vender has best interest at heart. Profits come first. One praises and only sells EH batteries. EH seems to have a Horrible public record as a decent battery.

Maybe it is just care and precaution, but I have yet to even lose one of my 30+ Lipo's to catastrophic failure. Even after severe RC aircraft impact with earth.

I 100% agree everyone should become knowledgeable and use all precautions with proper application or stick to Ego's and hope they never short.

One last thing.
In dealing within the industry for years I have come to rely heavily on White Box products for reduced cost. These items are retail products less the Labeling and fancy packaging.(Same Spec)
There is a difference between No Name JUNK and no name OEM(white box) products

 

[SissySpike]

Not trying to contradict GOOD advice at all. As I stated I never recommend anything except GOOD hybrid types. AW and Panasonic are my preferred batteries.

My opening was as to something that may cause contradictions. Yes all the Blue Batteries are No Name. SmokTech is a Brand Name.
Does Smoktech make batteries? no
Would I order a box full of unknown batteries from China - Not on your life.
As much as Brand, I purchase ONLY from US suppliers.
1 - I check specifications
2 - I check reputation based on consumer use.
3 - I make sure My wife can sue the heck out of someone if they lied and I'm injured or worse.
4 - I have been around and using Batteries in my Daily life - All my life. 40+ years in DC electronics.

I tend to be forgetful that many are easily misled and can make bad decisions. For that my apology.

We also Cannot just assume a trusted US vender has best interest at heart. Profits come first. One praises and only sells EH batteries. EH seems to have a Horrible public record as a decent battery.

Maybe it is just care and precaution, but I have yet to even lose one of my 30+ Lipo's to catastrophic failure. Even after severe RC aircraft impact with earth.

I 100% agree everyone should become knowledgeable and use all precautions with proper application or stick to Ego's and hope they never short.

One last thing.
In dealing within the industry for years I have come to rely heavily on White Box products for reduced cost. These items are retail products less the Labeling and fancy packaging.(Same Spec)
There is a difference between No Name JUNK and no name OEM(white box) products

If you can not recommend something why bring them up? the noob reading this thread might just see good old crxess is a smart fella hes been around for awhile he uses blue no names. I was not arguing your points made as they were all sound I just dont see they belong in the spirit of this thread.

If people want to research and branch off on their own to different types of batteries then so be it but give the new vapor a fighting chance and give them a good place to start with quality products from a vendor we all know to be sound and reliable.

 

[volume control]

Both batteries are grenades looking to go off, the cobalt just throws actual flames which are more dangerous. I have been using ICR batteries in relatively high drain applications for YEARS (Remote control cars) At times the batteries even get hot because you are working them. Laptops, cell phones, etc lithium power. The MAIN issue is the user 99% of the time. How much do you trust yourself not to wrap a bad coil (or even too low ohm which is plain stupid with ICR), fall asleep with a mod in your pocket, not use the safety, and etc.

On the bright side if i ever burn myself or my house, ill blame it on my RC batteries and spare ecigs the abuse