Modders selling

Status
Not open for further replies.

markarich159

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 30, 2009
1,169
45
PA, USA
Personally, If I was a modder(and don't get me wrong, I've seen some of the cool mods being made on this forum, they're unique, innovative and some are downright awesome) I would NEVER sell any of my mods. I would possibly offer the instructions for free with a well written legal disclaimer. The few bucks you're going to make aren't worth the risk of the liabilty you're undertaking. I have 2 commercially available mods right now(going on 3). I have no idea if the sellers I bought from have any type of liabilty insurance to cover any loss I might incur from a failure of their product. Honestly, if one of the mods would explode/catch fire/damage my property and injury me or a family member, I don't know what I would do, but I certainly would not be happy. Selling a homeade, uncertified, unregistered, unlicensed product is a risky venture. There's a whole other "product Liabilty insurance" thread that discusses this issue. There may come a day when homemade mods are the only option we vapers are going to have. So, to the modders, keep modding, we need you, just be careful, preserve your knowledge for future use, and make sure you protect yourselves.
 

seminolewind

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 5, 2009
1,709
2,418
Corydon Indiana
I would like to see a modder's classified. Modders are our future. Most don't start modding for money. And I am real real glad that they do offer their mods. Mods have improved most of our use of PV's and are in a class by themselves. Do you see how important they are to our community? I think it's in poor taste to have them advertise in the classified. There are modders out there who have shared their directions with us and helped us along the way. Isn't it time to pay it forward? These unique people and their homemade devices really deserve a classified section of their own.

I am not connected in any way shape or form to any modder on this board.
 

Dave Rickey

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 30, 2009
191
3
Austin TX
Personally, If I was a modder(and don't get me wrong, I've seen some of the cool mods being made on this forum, they're unique, innovative and some are downright awesome) I would NEVER sell any of my mods. I would possibly offer the instructions for free with a well written legal disclaimer. The few bucks you're going to make aren't worth the risk of the liabilty you're undertaking. I have 2 commercially available mods right now(going on 3). I have no idea if the sellers I bought from have any type of liabilty insurance to cover any loss I might incur from a failure of their product. Honestly, if one of the mods would explode/catch fire/damage my property and injury me or a family member, I don't know what I would do, but I certainly would not be happy. Selling a homeade, uncertified, unregistered, unlicensed product is a risky venture. There's a whole other "product Liabilty insurance" thread that discusses this issue. There may come a day when homemade mods are the only option we vapers are going to have. So, to the modders, keep modding, we need you, just be careful, preserve your knowledge for future use, and make sure you protect yourselves.
Did I mention my wife is a lawyer? There are liability issues to be considered, but there's also standards of implicit assumption of risk and the ability to "shrink wrap" agreements of waiver of liability (by opening this box, you agree to hold the manufacturer blameless for any injury to yourself or any other person, property, or domestic animal, and to assume any and all liability for future users, that might be incurred from use of the enclosed device, and to private mediation at your own expense of any and all claims under the laws of Commonwealth of Youarescrewed, yada yada yada."

It's also why I'm incorporating safety features from the very beginning, even in a prototype nobody else should ever use, so that in the event I find myself in court I can point to that fact as evidence of my good faith in not wanting to injure anyone. If I can think of a way that my product could be a danger, I will incorporate a corresponding safety feature or option (so turning the batteries away from the user's face and making sure there's a venting path, using a protection PCB, putting in a safety lockout switch, I'll offer batteries using safer chemistry and encourage the users to buy them, etc.).

I'm not going to be selling atomizers, eLiquid, or anything else that might be considered a medical device or consumable tobacco, I'm just selling a battery pack that some might choose to use with those items. They could also use it to power a flashlight, their cell phone, or with the right attachments jumpstart their car, that's not my concern.

Ever actually *read* the legalese in your owner's manuals? Sure, this is America, anyone can sue anyone for any damned stupid thing they can think of. But that doesn't mean they'll win. Before I, or more specifically, the LLC that manufactured their device with my labor under my supervision, can be sued, it has to have enough money to pay the plaintiff's lawyer, and by then it will have its own lawyers. *I* won't be selling anything to anyone, I'll just work for and own stock in a company that does.

--Dave
 

markarich159

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 30, 2009
1,169
45
PA, USA
Before I, or more specifically, the LLC that manufactured their device with my labor under my supervision, can be sued, it has to have enough money to pay the plaintiff's lawyer, and by then it will have its own lawyers. *I* won't be selling anything to anyone, I'll just work for and own stock in a company that does.

--Dave

All good points, and with the Limited Liabilty of an LLC, you will only be liable up to the percentage of ownership in your company(but you will still be somewhat liable)assuming anyone else would "go in" with you to share the liabilty considering the product. Also, the point about just selling a battery pack wouldn't hold up. The fact that there is a 510 atomizer adapter fitting on the "battery pack" clearly shows intent for the product to be used as an ecig power source. And frankly anyone who would make me sign a waiver stating that " I am not purchasing this product as an e-cigarette device , simply as a generic power source, I understand that if I choose to use it as an e-cig power source, I assume all liabilty for any failure and release modderLLC from any liabilty yada, yada, yada," is not getting my business.

Also, the shrink wrap liabilty waivers you refer to may or may not hold up in court(from what I've read most don't) Especially since we are talking about a uncertified product(no cULus, CE, RoHS). Which then would ,of course, bring up criminal liability for selling an uncertified electrical product(no matter what it's intended use).

I would also be more worried about coming up with defense attorney fees rather then the other parties plaintiffs fees(as I'm sure there are many ambulance chasers that would be more then happy to take the case once they've been briefed on the specifics-as you noted you can sue anyone in the USA- can you imagine Banzhaf hearing about someone being badly injured by and e-cig product, he'd be on the next plane). I would really be worried about this particular point as (has been brought up in other threads) there is currently no insurance underwriters offering product liabilty insurance for any e-cig product(device or liquid). Which would be reason #1 not to sell any product in the 1st place.

Now you've thought all this through and were able to come up with a well structured, well thought out response to my initial opinion(of course, having a spouse as an attorney helps). Do you think most modders have the luxury of counsel or knowledge of legalese you have? My guess would be no.

Believe me I'm on your side. As I've stated previously, I own Mods myself. I marvel at some of the mods I see produced on this forum. At this point though, with the current e-cig situation being what it is, I would not take the chance. But, hey, that's just me.
 

Robert

Moved On
Jun 18, 2009
1,275
2
57
San Diego, CA.
It isn't just big batteries that can vent- Any regular e-cig battery can do the same thing!

What if you trip and stick your prodigy through you eye- will you sue pursmoker for that? What if all the test at 3.7 volt are fine but 6 volt make you grow a tail? Would you stop vaping and smoke again?

I'm sure they are people out there that sue cause there coffee was too hot and burned there lips.. The same people put leashes on there kids and are worried about everything.

I'm sure someone in China stole Madogs flashlight idea and will be selling it to you soon- and I can't imagin they will make it any safer than I made mine.. I doubt they will improve his idea like I did- (really I just coppied someone) For sure they won't test it for 3-5 hour and look at every soldier joint closely inspecting them. They will not heatshirk everything. They will make it as cheap as they can. They will just shove them out of the factory as fast as they can.

If you don't trust something just cause it wasn't made a a factory- Then you've never taken any broken crap apart to see why it failed. Usually when something breaks if you take it apart you will find it was made as cheap as possible. If only they would have spent 50 more cent on a little something here or there it wouldn't have broke.


Everything any modders have made here- his idea is probly being tossed around some Chineese factory. If you wait maybe a year you'll be able to buy a cheap copy of something someone worked hard on and is proud of. I say if you like something PM the modder and ask them if they will sell it to you- I did.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread