Mods vs Tank expense question.

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herb

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Yes, very wise.
Trouble is, unless you are really, really committed to a mod, you'll get bored of it very soon or it'll break.
Either go 'dirt' cheap or comparatively over-expensive with a reliable warranty/return service.


If you buy something that covers most of the bases, it's hard to go wrong.

Us 2, 3 and 4 year vapers all got bitten by the mods which became obsolete with the new power tanks.


Use anything long enough it becomes somewhat boring , i have no issue with that , a mod has to work and do what it says it will do . As long as it consistently provides power there's no problem.

New mods are essentially the mods that have been around for years with design changes , you don't have to go expensive to get reliability.

Mods only go obsolete if you purchase one that does not do everything you need it to do , i knew i would never vape over 20 watts so no need to upgrade .

Determine what wattage you want to vape at and buy an appropriate mod with a little headroom just in case. I have zero interest in those high power tanks as imo they do not provide the best vape .
 

suprtrkr

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I have heard nothing but good things on the Kanger; especially for those of us that want to get into building coils.
Some people will tell you it leaks. I don't own one, so I can't say. However, if you are just learning to rebuild, I think you will find a dripper much easier to learn on as the deck is a lot bigger. I've seen the RBA adapter on the Subtank and it's tiny. Even a small dripper has a bigger deck. Buy a Dark Horse clone on eBay for 10 bucks. Get one that comes with both a Chuff Cap and a 510 drip tip. It can be built for flavor or clouds, and you'll learn a lot.
 

JDC1958

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It really isn't necessary to spend hundreds of dollars on equipment. I once bought a Nemesis clone from Fasttech for 9 dollars. I still have it, and it vapes like a dream. I now have a number of moderate-to-high-dollar authentic mechanicals, acquired over the years. I bought most of them here on the classies, used, and waited until I got a good deal. The authentics are generally better. The use better materials and the quality of work is superior. This makes them easier to use, and safer to push them closer to the ragged edge of possible. The thing is, an extra 10 seconds spent replacing the battery because the threads are not as polished as on a mod costing hundreds of dollars more is not really a big deal, and I don't push the gear to the ragged edge of possible anyway. And once you get the mod assembled with the battery inside and the topper screwed on and filled with juice, they don't vape a lot better. Again, unless you are using the gear to it's maximum limits, the additional .00001 volts of voltage drop you'll find between 302 and 316 stainless is pretty meaningless in practical terms. A lot of what you're paying for is the name, and the cachet. Feel free to do so, if you like. I do, but mostly because I love them as works of mechanical art. But you don't have to. As to regulateds, again, you don't have to buy top of the line, unless you just want to. Sigelei makes their Mini Book, a 40 watt, TC, Single 18650 mod, and I just bought one as a Christmas gift for $34.00. You can buy the Sigelei 150 watt mod with TC for 90 bucks and without TC for 65. And Sigelei is a well known and respected company with a reputation for quality build and long life equipment. The parts that go into a Hexohm v2.1 cost less than 20 bucks, but Vapecrawler only shows one priced under $180.00. I paid well over a Franklin for my Snow Wolf 200W TC machine. Does it do anything the Sigelei 150 won't do? Considering a) I wouldn't even dream of vaping anywhere near 150 Watts, never mind above; and b), they're made in the same factory, no, it really doesn't. I bought the SW because the Siggie 150 wasn't yet released and I didn't want to wait, but I wouldn't make the same choice today now they have been. Is there a quality difference? Yeppers, that there is. An iStick is not an Innokin is not a Sigelei. But you know what? Given identical toppers, they all vape.

Much the same can be said for toppers: You can pay top dollar if you want to, but good gear is available much cheaper. I rebuild, so I don't know much about replaceable coil tanks, but I use A Fogger V6 for dual coils and a Lemo2 for solos, and both can be had authentic under 30 bucks. I just bought an Indulgence Mutation MT tank-- it's not here yet-- because of the gigantic air flow and the huge juice channels. If it vapes like people tell me, it will probably become my favorite dualie tank. I bought it under 30 bucks too. I don't really need a Squape for over a hundred. I have an authentic Council of Vapor Aris Pro dripper, and a Wotofo Sapor; I'm hard pressed to tell you which I like better for flavor. They were 26 and 19 dollars respectively. And, while I get great pleasure from using them, and do so by preference, they don't vape a lot better than the two Plume Veil clones I have, both less than 10 bucks. Would I like to have an authentic Plume Veil? Definitely. Paying $125 for one is less attractive. I've vaped an authentic Kennedy Competition dripper, and it is a cloud machine for real. I'd love one, but they're a hundred bucks used. And I get about as much cloud from my authentic ($15) Fishbone v1, and from my ($10) clone Dark Horse.

So you make the call. If it's worth the money to you, by all means. But if not, you don't really need it.
Damn, you have a lot of equipment! I think I am going to roll really slow. Buy one more tank I can rebuild coils for and see how I like it. Making my juices is saving me a bunch of money with my sub tanks and if I can save more making my own coils, that’s obviously better.

I am very content with my Sig 75 and two non RTA tanks, I just want to try my hand at building coils on something a little nicer.
 
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djsvapour

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Mods only go obsolete if you purchase one that does not do everything you need it to do , i knew i would never vape over 20 watts so no need to upgrade

The thing is tanks got better and with them came low resistance coils.
I don't usually vape over 20w, but I will take a tank that vapes better and leak free.
A 2,200mAh eleaf battery lasts longer than a Spinner.
An Evic (1) or SID or Lavatube (1) or MVP (2) effectively became useless.

We should work together on this.... you and me remember the bad old days of 11w mods. :D
 

Le$$

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I am using Aspire Nautilus, Kanger Subtanks and Tobeco Super Tanks. All work great and all can be found on sale in the $20 range. Not sure why I would need a $50-100 tank. I guess a cool looking stainless tank would be neat, but I am happy with what I have and see no benefit of spending more on a tank.

I am new to vaping but have tried almost everything in the short time I have been vaping. If I started over again, I would buy a $50-ish 50w mod like a Kanger Subox and higher powered but not overly large 150-200w mod like a Sigelei 150TC ($60-80) and be done with it. I wouldn't change the tanks I have listed above though.
I started with a $50 mod (IPV D2) with a $20 Tobeco Super Tank and some replacement coils tossed into the fray.
It was a worthy $100 investment and you cannot find buyer's remorse here!
A mod with more wattage could be future-proof but if you prefer vaping with less than 50 watts like I do, then mid-level mods would do just fine.

My suggestion would be to talk to some cats in a local vape shop and try a few things that suit you, or, better yet, talk with the patrons there for their own experiences.

Nothing like one vaper helping another :) is without parallel
 

suprtrkr

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Damn, you have a lot of equipment! I think I am going to roll really slow. Buy one more tank I can rebuild coils for and see how I like it. Making my juices is saving me a bunch of money with my sub tanks and if I can save more making my own coils, that’s obviously better.

I am very content with my Sig 75 and two non RTA tanks, I just want to try my hand at building coils on something a little nicer.
I really would start with a dripper, but that's not a bad idea. As for bunches of gear, what can I say? I have shinyitis and I collect it.
 
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JDC1958

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I started with a $50 mod (IPV D2) with a $20 Tobeco Super Tank and some replacement coils tossed into the fray.
It was a worthy $100 investment and you cannot find buyer's remorse here!
A mod with more wattage could be future-proof but if you prefer vaping with less than 50 watts like I do, then mid-level mods would do just fine.

My suggestion would be to talk to some cats in a local vape shop and try a few things that suit you, or, better yet, talk with the patrons there for their own experiences.

Nothing like one vaper helping another :) is without parallel
That is, in principle, what I bought two months ago. Sig 75, Elite V2 Tank, extra battery, and juice for 108.00. I've since added the Tobeco Mini Super Tank. My only remorse is I did not go talk to the people at the vape shop sooner.
 

herb

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The thing is tanks got better and with them came low resistance coils.
I don't usually vape over 20w, but I will take a tank that vapes better and leak free.
A 2,200mAh eleaf battery lasts longer than a Spinner.
An Evic (1) or SID or Lavatube (1) or MVP (2) effectively became useless.

We should work together on this.... you and me remember the bad old days of 11w mods. :D

We just see things differently thats all , i agree that new tanks are better now if you want massive airflow and prefer sub ohm vaping .

That is not what i like at all , to me no new tank provides superior flavor to a good Kayfun or similar RTA , mine has never leaked , works at low wattages and saves you a ton on juice and since it works at higher ohm's is much better with battery life.

I have no issues with the MVP 20 watt , that thing i would recommend highly to anybody starting out or anybody that wanted a solidly built mod at a low price .

I do not consider the days of the 11 watt devices bad times like you do , these days people starting out are immediately introduced to sub ohm tanks and 60 to 70 watt devices , many don't have a clue there is any other way to vape which is unfortunate .

Different preferences and different times thats all , not all new things means better thats for sure.
 

Rabbit Slayer

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The thing is tanks got better and with them came low resistance coils.
I don't usually vape over 20w, but I will take a tank that vapes better and leak free.
A 2,200mAh eleaf battery lasts longer than a Spinner.
An Evic (1) or SID or Lavatube (1) or MVP (2) effectively became useless.

We should work together on this.... you and me remember the bad old days of 11w mods. :D
Coolfire IV or Istick 50W would give you even longer battery life, that is always useful :D
 
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BreSha6869

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Some people will tell you it leaks. I don't own one, so I can't say. However, if you are just learning to rebuild, I think you will find a dripper much easier to learn on as the deck is a lot bigger. I've seen the RBA adapter on the Subtank and it's tiny. Even a small dripper has a bigger deck. Buy a Dark Horse clone on eBay for 10 bucks. Get one that comes with both a Chuff Cap and a 510 drip tip. It can be built for flavor or clouds, and you'll learn a lot.
I a new to vaping and have seen lots of pics of folks' builds on ECF. When I looked at the teenie weenie RBA parts that came with my Subtank mini, I laughed my @$$ off. Not a chance in hell I would want to bother with building almost microscopic wire coils when I can buy a new premade coil for just over $2. Until I figured out what drippers were, I thought everyone on ECF had expensive macro lenses on their cameras.:D
 

JDC1958

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The juice delivery attachment is what actually makes the vapor (and determines the quality of that vapor). The mod merely supplies the power to the coil in the juice attachment.

Having said that, many of the better juice attachments require a decent quality mod. Some attachments have power requirements that an under-powered mod might not be capable of producing. Then again, you probably won't need 100 watts of power when 20 watts will suffice.
This is what I am thinking; and finding a balance in mod, tank, and juice seems to be the never ending battle for some.
 

JDC1958

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I a new to vaping and have seen lots of pics of folks' builds on ECF. When I looked at the teenie weenie RBA parts that came with my Subtank mini, I laughed my @$$ off. Not a chance in hell I would want to bother with building almost microscopic wire coils when I can buy a new premade coil for just over $2. Until I figured out what drippers were, I thought everyone on ECF had expensive macro lenses on their cameras.:D
I wish my coils were only two dollars; but even then I'd want to try and build them for pennies. That's just me though. I am a tinkerer and have no qualms about taking something apart to try and put it back together again. Before I do that though, I am going to make dang sure I have a fully functioning backup :)
 

BreSha6869

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I wish my coils were only two dollars; but even then I'd want to try and build them for pennies. That's just me though. I am a tinkerer and have no qualms about taking something apart to try and put it back together again. Before I do that though, I am going to make dang sure I have a fully functioning backup :)
I think I paid $2.29 for Kanger and Aspire coils on sale over the weekend. Usually $3 each I guess.

I definately want to try building my own.... but just not with a microscope.;)
 
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JDC1958

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I think I paid $2.29 for Kanger and Aspire coils on sale over the weekend. Usually $3 each I guess.

I definately want to try building my own.... but just not with a microscope.;)
My Super Tank Coils are about 20 dollars for a five pack at the Vape Stores around me. I probably could have found a Black Friday sale if fighting the traffic was worth saving five dollars a pack to me. They are about 13.00 to 17.00 a five pack at some places online but then you have to add shipping and patience :)
 

JDC1958

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Some people will tell you it leaks. I don't own one, so I can't say. However, if you are just learning to rebuild, I think you will find a dripper much easier to learn on as the deck is a lot bigger. I've seen the RBA adapter on the Subtank and it's tiny. Even a small dripper has a bigger deck. Buy a Dark Horse clone on eBay for 10 bucks. Get one that comes with both a Chuff Cap and a 510 drip tip. It can be built for flavor or clouds, and you'll learn a lot.
What's a good solid dripper that only has two post and plenty of room?
 

suprtrkr

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What's a good solid dripper that only has two post and plenty of room?
Hhhmmm... The Velocity leaps to mind. It's not a problem, actually. Most 3 post drippers can be built single coil, just by shutting off one side of the airflow. This is usually done by how you put on the top cap. The Velocity can be built single, dual or quad coils, depending on what you want to do. Each post has two holes, so in single or dual config it readily lends itself to vertical coil builds. Another one is the Magma. Three posts is pretty standard, though. FWIW, I'll stand by my recommendation of the Dark Horse clone with both drip tips. Cheap and versatile. You won't have any trouble with a three post design even just starting out. I didn't. Almost all two post designs can be built dual coil, and most threes can be built quads, although they may not have enough airflow for that. Heck, I've put dual builds in a Lemo2 and a Kayfun 4 :)
 
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JDC1958

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Hhhmmm... The Velocity leaps to mind. It's not a problem, actually. Most 3 post drippers can be built single coil, just by shutting off one side of the airflow. This is usually done by how you put on the top cap. The Velocity can be built single, dual or quad coils, depending on what you want to do. Each post has two holes, so in single or dual config it readily lends itself to vertical coil builds. Another one is the Magma. Three posts is pretty standard, though. FWIW, I'll stand by my recommendation of the Dark Horse clone with both drip tips. Cheap and versatile. You won't have any trouble with a three post design even just starting out. I didn't. Almost all two post designs can be built dual coil, and most threes can be built quads, although they may not have enough airflow for that. Heck, I've put dual builds in a Lemo2 and a Kayfun 4 :)
I looked at the Dark Horse based on your recommendation, and it appears to be a tinkerers dream with all the build options. I have just about, 95% sure, made up my mind on my next buy. But I am always a willing listener to different opinions.
 
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suprtrkr

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I looked at the Dark Horse based on your recommendation, and it appears to be a tinkerers dream with all the build options. I have just about, 95% sure, made up my mind on my next buy. But I am always a willing listener to different opinions.
Well said, and a tinkerer's dream it is. That's why I suggested it. I particularly like the way the air flow is set with a lock ring (two piece top cap) so you don't have to get so finicky putting it on. Wire and cotton are cheap, and it only holds a milliliter or two of juice. Plenty of room for experimentation. It's a good base to get into it and figure out what you can make it do. Savvy Steam Engine? One of the best coil calculators I know. Pay particular attention to the "results" block to the right. You can run the watts up and down to see how changing this changes the surface temperature of the wire, and guess what that's likely to do to your juice and cloud with a bit of experience.
 
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JDC1958

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Well said, and a tinkerer's dream it is. That's why I suggested it. I particularly like the way the air flow is set with a lock ring (two piece top cap) so you don't have to get so finicky putting it on. Wire and cotton are cheap, and it only holds a milliliter or two of juice. Plenty of room for experimentation. It's a good base to get into it and figure out what you can make it do. Savvy Steam Engine? One of the best coil calculators I know. Pay particular attention to the "results" block to the right. You can run the watts up and down to see how changing this changes the surface temperature of the wire, and guess what that's likely to do to your juice and cloud with a bit of experience.
I went to the steam engine and set the resistance to .6 ohms with 28 A1 Kanthal single coil wrap. It gave me 4.67 wraps, rounded to 5. I then set the heat flux at 20W, and the temp went to 592 degrees! Is that what my Sig would be burning at with it set at 20 watts with that wrap?
 
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suprtrkr

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I went to the steam engine and set the resistance to .6 ohms with 28 A1 Kanthal single coil wrap. It gave me 4.67 wraps, rounded to 5. I then set the heat flux at 20W, and the temp went to 592 degrees! Is that what my Sig would be burning at with it set at 20 watts with that wrap?
The "592" is not degrees of temperature, but rather "miliiwatts per millimeter squared," a measure of power radiated from the surface of the coil. That is very hot. It might burn your juice or scorch your cotton (I use rayon where this is less of a problem, but still.) Do you see how handy that is? You don't have to actually build it to see what's gonna happen :) One mistake you made is you didn't change the coil inner diameter. 1.3mm is tiny, 2 or 3 more normal. Such a coil would be very hard to wick. Here we go: vapor is made at the surface of the coil wire. You need an adequate amount of surface area to produce the vapor you want, but not too much so the juice burns out of the wick before it gets to the middle of the coil and causes the cotton to burn. As a rule of thumb, unless using Claptons or some other wild build, I think of 4-10 wraps is where I want to be. And one of the reasons I like to build duals is it's a lot easier to get reasonable size wire and coil loops down into the green zone (100-200 mW/mm^2) while staying subohm. Set steam engine up for 28ga, 3mm inner diameter, and 1.6 ohms for 8/7 wraps. At 20 watts you'll be 222, warmish but not bad. But at 15 watts, you'll be 166 and right in the sweet spot. However, you'll be down to 15 watts on a +ohm coil and not making cloud. Now set SE up for 28ga, .6 ohms, 3mm inner and dual coils for 5/6 wraps. At 20 watts you'll be 148, at 25 you'll be 185, and 15 will be a coolish 111, just barely in the green. See what we did? We just widened the power band from about 3 watts to about 10, all while staying in the green zone and providing a lot more selection for you to set watts and thus vapor production and temp, as well as battery life and juice consumption. Lol, I told you it was a handy gimmick :)
 
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