Muddied study?

[Shawn Hoefer]

Study linking vaping to heart attacks muddied amid spat between two tobacco researchers

Headline calls this muddied. I call it outrageous. Of course, I know from previous articles published that Stanton Glantz is an utter tool for ANTZ, but this... this boggles the mind...

TLDR...

He blames the heart attacks his test subjects had 10 years before they began vaping on current vaping habits.

Imagine having a child 10 years before you lost your virginity and blaming it on an active sex life in your twenties

I just... I can't... the ridiculousness is overwhelming.

 

[Mordacai]

@Shawn Hoefer, that's a perfect example of a biased scientific study. As using statistics that concentrate on the combustion of tobacco is just plainly wrong and unethical.

Obviously he also has an grossly overrated opinion of himself and his abilities, as he quite definitely is not a rocket scientist.

 

[Rossum]

This isn't the first time Stan has made absurd claims based on The Helena study from the early 2000s another infamous case.
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco and Alcohol News Analysis and Commentary: Search results for helena

 

[NGAHaze]

"Federal regulators have been weighing whether there's enough of a public health benefit to having adults quit smoking by vaping to risk hooking a new generation of young people on nicotine."

I thought the statement above was noteworthy because it shows how little concern they actually have for smokers hoping to quit. They are willing to sacrifice existing smokers over something that may or may not become troublesome.

What I want to know is, why do they think they have the right to determine what products an individual is allowed to consume in the first place? The argument about saving kids is just a ruse. I mean, look at McDonald's, it's a known fact that cheeseburgers aren't a healthy choice for our country's youth yet I see no demonization or overbearing restrictions being placed on them. I don't recall anybody trying ban the sale of Ho Ho's either for that matter.

I think we need to insist that all kids be immediately placed in a bubble and only fed fresh fruits and raw vegetables !

 

[CMD-Ky]

What I want to know is, why do they think they have the right to determine what products an individual is allowed to consume in the first place? The argument about saving kids is just a ruse.

These folks are our betters, they are smarter than we are and only want the best for us. Submit!

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

"Federal regulators have been weighing whether there's enough of a public health benefit to having adults quit smoking by vaping to risk hooking a new generation of young people on nicotine."

I thought the statement above was noteworthy because it shows how little concern they actually have for smokers hoping to quit. They are willing to sacrifice existing smokers over something that may or may not become troublesome.

What I want to know is, why do they think they have the right to determine what products an individual is allowed to consume in the first place? The argument about saving kids is just a ruse. I mean, look at McDonald's, it's a known fact that cheeseburgers aren't a healthy choice for our country's youth yet I see no demonization or overbearing restrictions being placed on them. I don't recall anybody trying ban the sale of Ho Ho's either for that matter.

I think we need to insist that all kids be immediately placed in a bubble and only fed fresh fruits and raw vegetables !

I wrote long long long ago that cereals were the real problem. Hyper-sweetened pure refined carbs with pictures of cartoons in every grocery store in the nation at toddler's eye level. Child obesity and early-onset diabetes are threats every bit as dire as smoking in this day and age, and it's ignored.

 

[Rossum]

What I want to know is, why do they think they have the right to determine what products an individual is allowed to consume in the first place?

That's a question I started asking long before vaping was a thing. A century ago, it seemed pretty clear that a Constitutional Amendment was required to ban something on the federal level. Now it seems they do it on little more than a whim.

 

[DeloresRose]

What gets me is, it’s already illegal for kids to vape. So just enforce the law! Like how they keep kids from drinking, driving, etc. I know the law is not enforced 100%. That’s not my fault. I should not be denied my vape, my booze, or my car because other people break the law and other people allow it.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Catch a kid vaping, take their vape and give them a ticket and a $300 fine... require them to show up in court with parents. In court, if they agree to name the individual that sold them the gear (research indicates that it's mostly just-turned-18-year-olds still in school buying and flipping the stuff), they get half off the fine. If the individual is caught, half off again. Gov makes money in fines, deterrent beyond a slap on the wrist is in place, sources dry up. Win win.

 

[Rossum]

Catch a kid vaping, take their vape and give them a ticket and a $300 fine... require them to show up in court with parents. In court, if they agree to name the individual that sold them the gear (research indicates that it's mostly just-turned-18-year-olds still in school buying and flipping the stuff), they get half off the fine. If the individual is caught, half off again. Gov makes money in fines, deterrent beyond a slap on the wrist is in place, sources dry up. Win win.

Sounds like a great way to get kids to take up smoking instead of vaping.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Sounds like a great way to get kids to take up smoking instead of vaping.

Apply the same fines FFS... this slap on the wrist action is not teaching kids anything. As written, the law in my locale allow officers/teachers to confiscate vaping gear and destroy it. The kid walks away with no further repercussions. What does that teach them?

 

[Rossum]

Apply the same fines FFS... this slap on the wrist action is not teaching kids anything. As written, the law in my locale allow officers/teachers to confiscate vaping gear and destroy it. The kid walks away with no further repercussions. What does that teach them?

That it's better to be caught with a half-empty $6 pack of smokes than a $30 Juul or a $60 mod. And applying the same fines to both doesn't change that.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

That it's better to be caught with a half-empty $6 pack of smokes than a $30 Juul or a $60 mod. And applying the same fines to both doesn't change that.

The key, here, is to eliminate the source of our grief... the percieved "epidemic" of kids vaping. Fining and shaming is an acceptable deterrent IMO. Sending them on their way with a semi-harsh word does nothing. I'm willing to listen to other ideas. Of course, this is ALL hypothetical...

 

[Katya]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/stanton-glantz-settlement-ucsf-fda-nih

"In September, the Food and Drug Administration awarded the grant to a tobacco research team led by Stanton Glantz at the University of California, San Francisco. Days before the grant was announced, Glantz, a well-known public health crusader against Big Tobacco, entered a $150,000 settlement for a lawsuit in which a former researcher in his lab, Eunice Neeley, alleged that he sexually harassed her and threatened to remove her name from a research paper.

 

[Mordacai]

You could try fining and or incarcerating the parents for 28 days and sentence the adolescent to do community service for 100 hours.

 

[NGAHaze]

I wrote long long long ago that cereals were the real problem. Hyper-sweetened pure refined carbs with pictures of cartoons in every grocery store in the nation at toddler's eye level. Child obesity and early-onset diabetes are threats every bit as dire as smoking in this day and age, and it's ignored.

Hey man, don't be talkin' bad 'bout my Coco Puffs!

 

[John Phoenix]

Shawn. I wanted to thank you for your kind offer the other day in my other deleted account's thread. (got my old account reactivated) You had actually offered to drive down or mail me an old Innokin Zlide you have. I don't need it. I am now using an Aspire Nautilus MTL on top of the iStick Pico 25. I want to thank you for your very kind offer, especially in the face of my grumpiness in that thread. They say it's the thought that counts and for me, it shows how big your heart is. Your Aces guy!

 

[John Phoenix]

He blames the heart attacks his test subjects had 10 years before they began vaping on current vaping habits.

Yeah that's pretty messed up. Nothing to see here folks just politics as usual. Thanks for the report Shawn.

 

[John Phoenix]

"What I want to know is, why do they think they have the right to determine what products an individual is allowed to consume in the first place? The argument about saving kids is just a ruse. I mean, look at McDonald's, it's a known fact that cheeseburgers aren't a healthy choice for our country's youth yet I see no demonization or overbearing restrictions being placed on them. I don't recall anybody trying ban the sale of Ho Ho's either for that matter.

I think we need to insist that all kids be immediately placed in a bubble and only fed fresh fruits and raw vegetables !

If I made my own government, I'd be tempted to outlaw anything unhealthy for sale to the public. I'd allow people to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes but this selling crap food and crap products with dangerous chemicals and the like just keeps getting worse and it has to Go. The alternative is we all become Vegans I suppose.. Not an easy task, I've tried it.

 

[stols001]

To win the war against kids, they must suffer. The parents are the responsible "adults" involved. They go to jail for 60 days and their kids get put in foster care.

Parents then have to follow a CPS case plan where they pay for all their own services to get the kids back.

Everybody loses. Parents might not be writing their congressmen so much about how they GASP discovered their kid with a JUUL and the JUUL and the adults legally buying it should be sanctioned.

Perhaps this seems harsh but there are the MANY who do not know how to parent anymore.

Anna