Must See Summer of BOMBS 2- New VMAX-SSV2 & Redesigned SS-Bolt,*THE HYPER SRT*(OMG), New Ego SCT, New 18650 VVG + The TELESCOPIC ST

[Sense Field]

Reading back on some of the previous posts makes me smile. The frustration of trying to get some of these high dollar rebuildables I am very familiar with. The LONG wait till "the mass producers" got wind of what the demand is, and started to make them, is coming to a close.

I have to be honest here. What really makes me sick to my stomach, is the few people who are lucky enough (or have the inside scoop) to buy the incredibly hard to get rebuildables and turn right around and sell them in the classies...for 150% profit. I know I shouldnt feel that way, but I do. No appreciation for what it does, how hard it is to get it, time and effort put into making it, not to mention craftmanship, all to make a buck....All the while someone like myself, would cherish it.

What we have with the SRT my friends, is the beginning of a MAJOR leap froward in the vaping industry. You can take what I am saying as GOSPEL.

Thanx to Chris and Dan at GV for being at the forefront of this new frontier..It's only going to get better !!!

Two things:

1) I've seen the SS Line and the Line V2 in the classifieds for around what it costs to buy them from Del & Van. Some even go for less.

2) Did you seriously say that you want the design of the Line ripped off and china produced? These guys put a lot of hard work into designing these things. They don't just do a few co-ops then call it quits. They are delivering tons of these and are continuing to sell them. Their plans are to open a shop and sell these devices.

Your lack of respect for the people who are pioneering the future of vaping makes ME sick to MY stomach.

 

[Briar]

Pepto Bismol might help... No offense intended - just kidding around.

Seriously, though, I don't think it's lack of respect, and I don't think the consequences to the original designers will be dire. Mass-produced stuff will never be as well-made as equipment produced by caring, skillful and talented artisans.

Do people buy less of the artisan made e-liquid just because cheaper mass-produced juice is available?

The price-point of the artisan-made things is simply out of range for many. I think that people who can afford better quality are the same people who are buying it now - and those people won't switch to mass-produced. If they can get the good stuff, they will. I would, if I could.

People buying the mass-produced things will be those like me who can't afford it, or those who can't get it anyway because of limited supply. And I suspect if the good stuff becomes more available, many with buy it after they tried mass-produced.

Will the existence of mass-produced stuff put pressure on the artisans? Sure. But it won't drive them out of business, and it's not necessarily a bad thing to be pushed towards creating new things and pushing the boundaries.

Two things:

1) I've seen the SS Line and the Line V2 in the classifieds for around what it costs to buy them from Del & Van. Some even go for less.

2) Did you seriously say that you want the design of the Line ripped off and china produced? These guys put a lot of hard work into designing these things. They don't just do a few co-ops then call it quits. They are delivering tons of these and are continuing to sell them. Their plans are to open a shop and sell these devices.

Your lack of respect for the people who are pioneering the future of vaping makes ME sick to MY stomach.

 

[LordDavon]

you don't KNOW LD do you that's only his shop supply for use this month, he still has the SS #400 to stock up on by the square yard

How did you know that my cart is already full of SS Mesh? Stop peaking in my windows!!!

 

[LordDavon]

Did any hypermizer samples got out for testing I would love to see a preview/review for these. Also any firm time frame for these?

None have come this way yet, but I have asked [maybe begged] for some of these new items.

 

[CoyoteRed]

Sorry its too small of an image.

 

[Bizrad8381]

None have come this way yet, but I have asked [maybe begged] for some of these new items.

I've been watching your videos a lot lately and I must say you do a very good job with them I makes sense that they send you stuff to test. The reason I asked about samples being sent out was so I could see your video.

 

[hmlessalky]

Buying one of these new rebuildables vs a Line or whatever will be like buying a Scion FR-S vs a Ford GT. It will be available to the general public and much cheaper. Will it be as nice? Nope. But will it allow people to try something new without having to break the bank and wait forever? Yep. I am glad that I won't have to spend around $100 to pick up a rebuildable. I have the utmost respect for the designers of the first rebuildables, but at some point they had to find a way to make them in a high enough quantity and a reasonable enough price to prevent the mass produced market from taking over. I am sure they are not shocked. They will always be the leaders, will always have the best product, and will always be respected.

 

[Sense Field]

Buying one of these new rebuildables vs a Line or whatever will be like buying a Scion FR-S vs a Ford GT. It will be available to the general public and much cheaper. Will it be as nice? Nope. But will it allow people to try something new without having to break the bank and wait forever? Yep. I am glad that I won't have to spend around $100 to pick up a rebuildable. I have the utmost respect for the designers of the first rebuildables, but at some point they had to find a way to make them in a high enough quantity and a reasonable enough price to prevent the mass produced market from taking over. I am sure they are not shocked. They will always be the leaders, will always have the best product, and will always be respected.

My only problem was seeing someone come out and say in public that they hope another persons product is copied by the Chinese.

 

[Teach]

My only problem was seeing someone come out and say in public that they hope another persons product is copied by the Chinese.

Most of these mods are put up for public consumption and are easily replicated and modded by anyone who comes along - including manufacturers. Note that it isn’t actually a ‘Genesis’ (no stainless wick) so it doesn’t intrude on Raidy’s proprietary documentation without his permission. The manufacturers will be removed one step if the buyer decides to mod it into a Genesis.

If an innovator decides to post without proper legal papers, they are in essence granting everyone the right to produce product based on their ideas… that’s pretty much what the modding communities have been about – share and develop.

And if you stop and think about it - the Chinese, evidently, developed the E-Cig so everything we do is copying their idea.

 

[zippersnapper]

Two things:

1) I've seen the SS Line and the Line V2 in the classifieds for around what it costs to buy them from Del & Van. Some even go for less.

2) Did you seriously say that you want the design of the Line ripped off and china produced? These guys put a lot of hard work into designing these things. They don't just do a few co-ops then call it quits. They are delivering tons of these and are continuing to sell them. Their plans are to open a shop and sell these devices.

Your lack of respect for the people who are pioneering the future of vaping makes ME sick to MY stomach.

No offence intended or taken by myself either. I fully respect everyones opinion whether or not I agree with it. Allow me to rebuttal.

On point one: I had been watching/reading/commenting on the VAPOR wall forum (Only way to get a Line) for a while. When I first got wind of the Line V2, then the Line SS, I immediately signed up, and stalked. The thread to put your name down or "waiting list" NEVER opened up for over 2 1/2 months AFTER being told it would re-open "soon". On the Vapor wall forum you can also see when and in most cases "who's" particular Line is shipping. Even MORE interesting is the fact that most people on the Vapor wall forum have the EXACT same user name as they do here, on ECF. So its no rocket science work to watch member "ABCD" get a "shipped" notice on Vapor wall that his/her Line V2 is on its way, and watch the same username pop up in the classies with $160.00 price tag on his/her Line V2. Nomad: Take a few minutes to read all my posts to Van about how much respect I have for those guy's work, and one post in particular about production, quantity, supply and demand and how I WARNED it would be a matter of time before the Chinese got wind of it, and started to mass produce a clone. I even asked if the designed was patented. I stopped watching the Vapor wall forum a month ago because the thread to get on the waiting list never opened up for the Line V2 or Line SS. At no time was it EVER discussed to increase production. In fact, they were moving forward with the "Silver Dog" PV, and sounded as if all interest in Line production was not even on the Horizon. If all this has changed, and they are producing "Tons" then I certainly stand corrected. The absolute cheapest I saw a Line go for in the classies was $120.00, and that was after 4 ownerships. If one sold for actually less than new, then I missed it, and shame on me.

Are you kidding me? No respect? If it werent for craftsmen like Van&Del, Zen~, Scubabatdan, and the like, we probably would never get out of the dark ages with Vaping. If the plan is to open up shop and sell them, then Kudos and that is great news because selling only on a forum, on a waiting list, through paypal only, with no website, is the absolute worst way to conduct business IMO.

I will still buy a Line V2 or SS if I ever get the chance, because I will pay good money for high quality. But as I have said MANY times, no matter how good it is, it's useless if you cant buy it.

Briar: Your points are spot on.

 

[yiddleboge6]

Putting any product out for public consumption without first filing for patent and or copyright leaves the person who created it completely open to being copied with no legal recourse. I would hope that people developing new things are aware of that.

 

[Sense Field]

No offence intended or taken by myself either. I fully respect everyones opinion whether or not I agree with it. Allow me to rebuttal.

On point one: I had been watching/reading/commenting on the VAPOR wall forum (Only way to get a Line) for a while. When I first got wind of the Line V2, then the Line SS, I immediately signed up, and stalked. The thread to put your name down or "waiting list" NEVER opened up for over 2 1/2 months AFTER being told it would re-open "soon". On the Vapor wall forum you can also see when and in most cases "who's" particular Line is shipping. Even MORE interesting is the fact that most people on the Vapor wall forum have the EXACT same user name as they do here, on ECF. So its no rocket science work to watch member "ABCD" get a "shipped" notice on Vapor wall that his/her Line V2 is on its way, and watch the same username pop up in the classies with $160.00 price tag on his/her Line V2. Nomad: Take a few minutes to read all my posts to Van about how much respect I have for those guy's work, and one post in particular about production, quantity, supply and demand and how I WARNED it would be a matter of time before the Chinese got wind of it, and started to mass produce a clone. I even asked if the designed was patented. I stopped watching the Vapor wall forum a month ago because the thread to get on the waiting list never opened up for the Line V2 or Line SS. At no time was it EVER discussed to increase production. In fact, they were moving forward with the "Silver Dog" PV, and sounded as if all interest in Line production was not even on the Horizon. If all this has changed, and they are producing "Tons" then I certainly stand corrected. The absolute cheapest I saw a Line go for in the classies was $120.00, and that was after 4 ownerships. If one sold for actually less than new, then I missed it, and shame on me.

Are you kidding me? No respect? If it werent for craftsmen like Van&Del, Zen~, Scubabatdan, and the like, we probably would never get out of the dark ages with Vaping. If the plan is to open up shop and sell them, then Kudos and that is great news because selling only on a forum, on a waiting list, through paypal only, with no website, is the absolute worst way to conduct business IMO.

I will still buy a Line V2 or SS if I ever get the chance, because I will pay good money for high quality. But as I have said MANY times, no matter how good it is, it's useless if you cant buy it.

Briar: Your points are spot on.

I suppose I can understand the frustration. I have talked with Del and he assured me there would be future runs after they complete the current list. I believe they have delivered over 600 of them...pushing 700.

I'm saw a line go for 120. Also saw a brand new SS Line for 140 on there. Asking price isn't normally selling price.

That said...if they get mass produced...I'm not saying that that is a horrible thing...I guess my beef was with abandoning the original designers to wait for a Chinese knock off.

I do agree that the whole list thing is a pain...but I do know there is a web shop in the future.

As for people making money off of these...well...that's commerce. But it looks to me like the market is a bit saturated...genesis rebuildables are all over the classifieds.

But this is all off topic...the situation here is different...ScubaDan doesn't seem to have issue with the knock off and as far as I know...I don't believe that he was creating these regularly or as a business. So just to be clear...I'm not damning the release of this Scubagen type rebuildable.

 

[zippersnapper]

I suppose I can understand the frustration. I have talked with Del and he assured me there would be future runs after they complete the current list. I believe they have delivered over 600 of them...pushing 700.

I'm saw a line go for 120. Also saw a brand new SS Line for 140 on there. Asking price isn't normally selling price.

That said...if they get mass produced...I'm not saying that that is a horrible thing...I guess my beef was with abandoning the original designers to wait for a Chinese knock off.

I do agree that the whole list thing is a pain...but I do know there is a web shop in the future.

As for people making money off of these...well...that's commerce. But it looks to me like the market is a bit saturated...genesis rebuildables are all over the classifieds.

But this is all off topic...the situation here is different...ScubaDan doesn't seem to have issue with the knock off and as far as I know...I don't believe that he was creating these regularly or as a business. So just to be clear...I'm not damning the release of this Scubagen type rebuildable.

"Well Said"

 

[LordDavon]

View attachment 114482
Sorry its too small of an image.

Women say that to me all the time.

I've been watching your videos a lot lately and I must say you do a very good job with them I makes sense that they send you stuff to test. The reason I asked about samples being sent out was so I could see your video.

Thank you. I really love doing the videos. If I get one in, I will jump right on the testing of it.

 

[hmlessalky]

Yeah, LD is about the only reviewer I seem to be watching lately. I like his reviewing style. So good job LD.

Chinese products are what keeps us common folks able to enjoy nice things without going broke. I'm not saying I am happy about the fact that other countries can't be price competitive, but I am glad I could afford a nice big TV for my basement.

And like stated earlier, I think this can be a good thing for the smaller builders. If you get this type of rebuildable device into the hands of more consumers it will help to eliminate the fear of them being too big of a PITA for most people. Then people will want to buy a better product and the market will open up. Or the Chinese ones may suck, but people will have had a taste and will want something better. I would venture to guess that most vapers want simplicity and convenience still, and look at items like this as too much work. This could all change. Especially if the end user doesn't have to worry about oxidizing mesh and ordering wire and wick so they have to start from scratch.

 

[kingofswords]

hope this is the same diameter as standard dct tubings....otherwise pretty useless as a repairable if you have to bu new one everytime it cracks

 

[kwcharlie]

Putting any product out for public consumption without first filing for patent and or copyright leaves the person who created it completely open to being copied with no legal recourse. I would hope that people developing new things are aware of that.

yes they are, that's why there is no SS Wick in these Chinese SD copy's, see raidy and his patent apps

 

[MarcK73]

Yeah, LD is about the only reviewer I seem to be watching lately. I like his reviewing style. So good job LD.

Chinese products are what keeps us common folks able to enjoy nice things without going broke. I'm not saying I am happy about the fact that other countries can't be price competitive, but I am glad I could afford a nice big TV for my basement.

And like stated earlier, I think this can be a good thing for the smaller builders. If you get this type of rebuildable device into the hands of more consumers it will help to eliminate the fear of them being too big of a PITA for most people. Then people will want to buy a better product and the market will open up. Or the Chinese ones may suck, but people will have had a taste and will want something better. I would venture to guess that most vapers want simplicity and convenience still, and look at items like this as too much work. This could all change. Especially if the end user doesn't have to worry about oxidizing mesh and ordering wire and wick so they have to start from scratch.

I agree on both points. I too have LD's YouTube Channel as a Pinned Tab in Google Chrome now as I really like his style. In fact his review of the NotCigs VVPV is a lot of what sealed my decision to order one!

As far as the Chinese "knockoff" situation, I personally am happy about cheaper & lower quality versions of the expensive and hard to obtain products as long as they aren't 100% facsimiles. It allows people who can't afford the high-end stuff to try something new and more importantly it allows people to try something to see if they like first it without breaking the bank.

Perfect example -> My GF is really interested in trying a true bottom feed device and really likes the wood REO's, but without knowing if she'll like it and how/if it will fit into her vaping lifestyle, she doesn't want (and isn't in the financial situation) to spend upwards of $150 on one, not to mention the trouble of trying to track a new one down in the first place, just to try one and see. I introduced her to the Old Goat bottom feed device the other day, which is $25 shipped and she's most likely going to place an order before the weekend. Now if she likes the Old Goat, which is fundamentally the same as a REO (DON'T FLAME ME!!! I simply mean they are both bottom feeders, I'm not comparing the quality and craftsmanship!) and it fits into her vaping lifestyle, she will most definitely save up and buy a wood REO.

My point (FINALLY!) is that because there's a cheaper version of the product for her to try to see if she likes it, Reosmods will actually sell another REO that they wouldn't have sold otherwise. Just like not many people (except for idiots like myself) are going to run out and buy a Provari just to see if they like VV vaping, so products like the Rocket are available for people to get their feet wet so to speak, and if they like it then at some point in time they might decide to upgrade to something nicer that they wouldn't have bought.

PS- I don't actually own a Provari as it's way too much button clicking for me, it was just an example. Haha, and I know that Old Goat isn't from China, again it was just an example.

 

[The Doctor]

What i'd really like ot see is some of these folks who have developed awesome mods/kit start filing hard patents and getting the Chinese to do the manufacturing. The price of a Line, or SS, or pretty much any of the pricy custom built mods could be driven down to completely accessible pricing, making it not only available to more people, but giving the creators the recognition they deserve, and the cash flow to evolve their products or create new ones with emergent technology.

Small operations are fantastic, don't get me wrong... but as it stands, some of the most desired and desirable kit is akin to purchasing fine art... which is neither what the industry needs from an expansion standpoint nor is it condusive to evolving the hardware we have now.

I'm ALL about purchasing local and handcrafted mods (love me some wood mods) but I consider THAT to be art. The internals are largely Chinese made, and not overly expensive.. So if you buy a REO, a Grip, a Bogger or a Gepetto you're paying for the aestheic value of the piece, which is, in my opinion, how it should be. Can you imagine paying $200 extra for a mod because someone decided to build a regulator from scratch that only had marginal performance enhancement?

If the Chinese are able to mass-produce a product that is inexpensive, of passable (or better) quality and highly available... I hope they do. I also sincerly hope that the innovators, inventors and craftsmen from whose minds these devices spring protect themselves with patents and are able to find a company that can manufacture their product for them... The supply/demand ratio, as well as the pricing paradigms for new and quality products borders on the bizarre right now.

There will always, ALWAYS be a market for high-end, handtooled product. But as it stands, you have the paupers in line with the princes (and princesses) for what is quickly becoming essential gear, and it does neither group any favours. It pains me when I see a beautifully crafted system in the classies with a line like "thought I would like it but it's too much work/can't figure it out/etc.", because for every one of the folks that got it and want to sell it or don't appreciate it, there are 10 people who would love to have one, but can't find them available.

I've owned a few businesses myself, and have always tried to keep my suppliers, manufacturers and staff local... And without fail, I have been out competed by someone who was willing to sacrifice that ethic for offshore manufacturing simply because the pricepoint was so drastically reduced that it made the product more appealing to the general populace. The solution, again, without fail, was to increase the quality and design... create a niche market for those that could afford and appreciate the product, and of course protect my ... with hard patents.

This is a young industry, and some folks are going to make a LOT of money from it... I'd like to see the innovators whose products WE know are evolutionary and of high quality be among them. Commerce is a game, and you can only win if you know the rules.

That having been said... the new kit looks great. Very excited to see it reviewed!

Sent from my T.A.R.D.I.S using K9 Forum Interaction Protocol #23.

 

[MarcK73]

Doctor, just wanted to say I love the avatar and signature! Of course now I'm afraid to blink though...