My lingering questions about safety

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Grammie

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I am very happy to be vaping instead of smoking. However, I wouldn't recommend that a non-smoker take it up.

My primary concerns are along the lines of asbestos or something. for example, the silica wicks, which I have read do leave particles in the vapour. (read it on one of the forums, and saw photos of them.) Asbestos is a silicate, although I don't know if that means they would be similar in their effects on the lungs. I wouldn't vape any coils that contained asbestos, if such a thing were to exist - I would rather smoke.

However: how do I know which wicks have silicate wicks?

Check this thread out for more specific information: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/377764-dangers-silica-wicks.html
 

unknown_shooter

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I worry a little bit about the silica fibers in wicks but not as much as I worried about the dangers of smoking cigarettes. I did read somewhere that IF there were a danger in using silica wicks it would take more that 20 years for the effects to be felt. So...at 66 years old...who cares.;)

I'm not normally one to agree with Rush Limbaugh, but a few years ago, he was talking about smoking, and one of his points was that you have to abuse yourself with cigarettes for a *very* long time to do real damage in most cases. You aren't getting copd from one cig, one pack, one carton, or even a year of smoking a pack a day. ten, twenty, thirty years later, sure - you're likely to start having repercussions, but acting like walking *past* a smoker does you some "harm" is really just whiney BS, unless you're one of the .0002 % of the population that is actually allergic to the smoke. Yeah, I'm talking about those non-smokers who go into (fake) coughing fits whenever they detect the presence of smoke.

One could argue pretty effectively that cigarettes are actually pretty "safe". One bottle of Jack Daniels, (consumed quickly) is very likely to kill you. One carton of cigs (consumed quickly) is likely to make you feel like a zombie, but you'll be ok once you get the shag off your tongue.

So if we go from a baseline based on real facts, and not overhyped hysteria, smoking isn't really that big of a deal, and vaping is a nothingburger with a side of nothing.
 

CafeDigitalDiva

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Hi Katy,

I think your question is a very valid one. I didn't start vaping till a few weeks ago; however my man has been vaping for quite a while longer and of course, the ever sceptic in me, proceeded to do a fair bit of research. The links that were shared are well known articles and I'd recommend reading them.

My main concern wasn't the vegetable glycerine but more the polyethylene glycols thus I concentrated most of my research on that.
In my research I stumbled upon a wikipedia entry that listed an LD50 mention in the hazard section when dosed in 30ml/kg on rats: PEG 400 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The PEG400/PG has been used in the pharmaceutical industry for years; although the 30ml/kg tests in rats resulted in an LD50, it was administered undiluted. A second medical report made very clear to me that there is no imminent cause for concern Elsevier

A small excerpt which speaks volumes: "The Kd of polyethylene glycol 414 between hexane and water was 0.000015, indicating that there are only 1.5 parts of polyethylene glycol 414 in hexane for 100,000 parts of polyethylene glycol 414 in water."

The studies about the effects long term that I have been able to track down in the local medical library were, to say the least, inconclusive since virtually none address the inhaling of PG in vapor form.

I am a sceptical nerd and have done extensive research (and bored you probably with some incomprehensible terms) and have not found any indication of "vaping" being more harmful than drinking a soda per day.

To address possible flavor issues; I'd suggest only purchasing flavors mixed with natural flavor extracts.

Besides the nicotine the ingredients used in e-liquids are more common in our daily food intake than we realise.

Good luck in your vaping endeavors and I hope I have been able to assist you a bit in decreasing your worries with my limitless nerdness ;)

Edited addition:
In my enthusiastic banter I forgot to address your concern for the coils and wicks; I cannot say much about the disposable cartridges but there is a lot of choice when it comes to creating your own custom set up.
Wicks can be created from a wide variety of materials; including (but not limited to) natural cotton, the coils are made out of regular metal wire, not unlike the heating coils used on the bottom of a water heater/boiler that heats our water, and/or contains our water that we use for daily consumption (think coffee makers, tea machines, etc.).

All in all, as has been mentioned by various other vaping enthusiasts; put all the denominators against the ingredients of a cigarette and you are pretty much down to a no brainer IMO.

Cheers :)

Bravo! Very well said Clautje. I've read some of those same studies in my research of the ecig.
 

ut1205

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I would think that as long as the wicks are wet the hazard would be almost nonexistent. I worked in a plant that was built in the 1950's and used asbestos to insulate hot pipes. Whenever repairs were necessary that disturbed the asbestos covers the professionals were called in. Once they removed the covering they soaked it with water to prevent fibers from becoming airborne.
 

Fulgurant

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I'm not normally one to agree with Rush Limbaugh, but a few years ago, he was talking about smoking, and one of his points was that you have to abuse yourself with cigarettes for a *very* long time to do real damage in most cases. You aren't getting copd from one cig, one pack, one carton, or even a year of smoking a pack a day. ten, twenty, thirty years later, sure - you're likely to start having repercussions, but acting like walking *past* a smoker does you some "harm" is really just whiney BS, unless you're one of the .0002 % of the population that is actually allergic to the smoke. Yeah, I'm talking about those non-smokers who go into (fake) coughing fits whenever they detect the presence of smoke.

One could argue pretty effectively that cigarettes are actually pretty "safe". One bottle of Jack Daniels, (consumed quickly) is very likely to kill you. One carton of cigs (consumed quickly) is likely to make you feel like a zombie, but you'll be ok once you get the shag off your tongue.

I don't disagree with the larger point about second-hand smoke, but it is worth mentioning that the "very long time" period before a smoker will do real damage varies dramatically from person to person. You might be like my great aunt, who blithely smoked 3 packs a day for almost 70 years, never quit, and finally died in her 90s for no obviously smoking-related reason. Or you might develop emphysema in five years.

Smoking is, as another person aptly pointed out, a dire health risk. You're right to point out that it ain't gonna kill you immediately, but what's so insidious about tobacco is how addictive it is; assuming you survive the experience (I have, LOL), drinking an entire bottle of Jack Daniels isn't likely to turn you into an alcoholic over the long term. Smoking a single carton of cigarettes might very well turn you into a long-term smoker.

I think most of us are primarily concerned about all of the various health and quality-of-life problems that arise well before the immediate threat of death, though. Even after just a few weeks, the difference between how I felt as a smoker and how I feel as a vaper cannot be overstated. It's truly startling to realize that you haven't been able to take a real deep breath for years, and yet for years I convinced myself that that wasn't an issue. Why? Because it was easier to dismiss the harmful effects of my addiction than it would have been to confront the problem.
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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See CASAA for your answers. They have the best data available. Vaping is a do-less-harm kinda thing. What is known is that vaping is about two magnitudes safer for you than smoking. Is it safe? No. What is? But 100 times safer than smoking?.....okey, dokey...I can probably survive that. My recommendation to people who are concerned about the harm that may or may not come from vaping is straightforward and simple.....Don't Do It. If you don't vape, you have nothing to worry about regarding vaping. Our modern lifestyle? Well, it's a killer, whether you vape or not, and this is well documented. Good luck to you! Be safe.
 

Rat2chat2

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I'm sure there are lots of articles but I've never read them because until something even better than vaping comes out, this is what I'm sticking too. One day there will probably be something come out that makes me tell people..... whatever helps you get off vapes. heehee :laugh: Jokes aside......I think it is a healthier alternative and just a perk that I enjoy it.
 

Thrasher

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My main concern wasn't the vegetable glycerine but more the polyethylene glycols thus I concentrated most of my research on that.
In my research I stumbled upon a wikipedia entry that listed an LD50 mention in the hazard section when dosed in 30ml/kg on rats: PEG 400 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
that is 30ml/1oz ingested per every2.2 pounds of body weight!!! for me this would be 3390ML in one dose !!!!
on a side note very few, if any at this point, juices still use PEG.

propylene glycol on the other hand has has extensive inhalation studies since the 60's, PG vapor is even used in the sterilization of the airways with many medical facilities and their air conditioning..several tests done in the late 60 and early 70s showed even when the room was saturated with PG vapor to the point the people cannot see, after several hours the subjects showed no adverse effects. and no abnormal chemical levels in the blood stream with the PG being ejected from the body with in a short time

Pg is used in foods, cosmetics, lotions and even a carrier in I.V. suspended or injected medications as well as some bronchial inhalers. we have been exposed to and consuming PG for so long now its not funny. they even use it to make safe antifreeze as well as the 50 or so years that clubs have had fog machines.

the crazy flavorings is where I would put any assumption of safety issues.

as for the wick.wire etc. nothing will ever be completely safe. but we grew up and live today in rooms heated by the same wire in electric heaters, glowing red and blowing these same fumes steadily for hours on end as well as many toasters and toaster ovens baking away daily and years of exposure have shown no real problems.

several scare attempts, which i think are legitimate up to a point have droned on about the sharding issues with wicking, but a few things remain clear:
the amount needed to actually induce known symptoms are drastic and could not be inhaled in a lifetime of vaping, as it were to become even close you would be replacing wicks/heads every hour or so from degradation.

the dust or fibers that are present in a dry wick are soon rinsed away and suspended in the juice, with no way to travel up the wick into the vapor stream. a solid particle cannot move through a solid wick and a wet wick cannot make dust.

just walking through the park at noontime has exposed your lungs to more dust and debris then you could ever get from a 1 inch wick in the 90 seconds it takes to screw on a head then fill with juice.

and the fact that 100's of 1000's of vapors world wide have used these same materials for several years now with almost no known ill effects being reported other then a report here or there filled with anecdotal evidence. if after this much exposure by this many people for this amount of time I believe if there were issues they would be well known by now.
 
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