My little rant about banning E-Cigs.

[Daniel O'Brien]

Ok so here's the thing. I have noticed that some people have their panties all in a bunch about people using E-cigs. I'm guessing most if not all of those people have an issue with people who smoke analogs. Now why do they have issues with analogs ? They stink,cause cancer,second hand smoke, and are just all around bad for everyone. Now this brings me to E-Cigs and why those same people are .....ing about them. My guess is they just don't know or refuse to listen to the benefits of E-Cigs. I'm guessing that most of these people just like to have something to ..... about whether it be E-Cigs or whatever else they might hate for no reason. It's either that or straight up ignorance. They might just not know that E-Cigs do not cause cancer, stink, or that they are not harmful in any way. When I first got into vaping (which was only a month ago) I was shy and didn't want to vape in restaurants or near kids or where there was a lot of people. From now on I plan to vape everywhere I go no matter what. People need to be educated and understand that these are not like analogs and they don't need to be afraid of them. The only thing that vapors need to look out for is the people that no matter what you tell them they will disagree with everything you say. You can show them videos on the benefits of E-Cigs and go on and on about how you quit analogs and no matter what they will not listen. There's just some people you can not get to change their mind about anything. Let me know what you have done or what others can do to help move the acceptance of E-Cigs forward.

 

[DCB305]

As far as the public is concerned there isn't much you can do unless you pay for advertisement and commercials showing the benefits. If they see it in mainstream media and on their yahoo front page then maybe they would look at it differently.

In my opinion e-cigs are going to have a tough go from a political standpoint. The tobacco co's and stop smoking product manufacturers and Rx co's and even the government (state and fed) all benefit from the revenue produced by tobacco smokers. Also all these co's have very deep pockets and lobbyist to do anything in their power to protect their revenue stream. JMO

 

[Uncle Willie]

It would be very difficult to ban PV's .. batteries would be impossible to ban / cartos / attys that are empty impossible .. liquid with no nic can be easily formulated with off the shelf products .. nicotine extract could be banned, but tough to enforce ..

Now, regulate, that's a different story ...

 

[MickeyRat]

As far as the public is concerned there isn't much you can do unless you pay for advertisement and commercials showing the benefits. If they see it in mainstream media and on their yahoo front page then maybe they would look at it differently.

In my opinion e-cigs are going to have a tough go from a political standpoint. The tobacco co's and stop smoking product manufacturers and Rx co's and even the government (state and fed) all benefit from the revenue produced by tobacco smokers. Also all these co's have very deep pockets and lobbyist to do anything in their power to protect their revenue stream. JMO

I'm not so sure it's as bad as all that. So far, the little most people know about PVs is from rip-off advertisers. No matter what you think about their products or business practices, at least they emphasize the safety aspects. In my experience, most people are more receptive to it than you might think.

There is one thing we can do. We can vape in public outside of smoking areas and let people see what these things are. In my experience, when they see them, more people than not think they are cool. Don't do it with an I have a right, in your face attitude. Just do it minding your own business. I've posted them before but, I have a set of rules that I use for public vaping:

• Do not hide it and do not use anything that looks like a cigarette. There's no upside, if people think you are smoking.
• I've never had it happen but, if anyone objects don't stomp your feet and say you have the right even if you've previously gotten permission. Explain what you're doing. If they still object, be polite and stop or leave.
• If you get curious questions, answer politely. In a bar, sometimes it's a good conversation starter. Send people to this forum that want to know more.
• Outside, I just vape.
• In a bar, I just vape.
• In a restaurant I typically ask. I've never been turned down.
• I still step out of the doctor's waiting room even though I've been told it's okay but, I don't leave the premises and it's non-smoking campus. Call that a personal eccentricity.

I've done this in 4 states (NC, NY, GA, and FL) and the only responses I've gotten have been positive. People are interested and when it's explained to them they think it's cool. At work (Yes, I vape at my desk), I've even been invited to use it in meetings by non-smokers.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Now, regulate, that's a different story ...

Exactly.

Why would they want to Ban something that can be Taxable?

I can see a day where there is a Tax Stamp on a Bottle of e-Liquid just like on a Bottle of Booze or a Pack of Analogs.

 

[tonymopar]

Not only have I used this in public, I have also used this in class at the technical institute I am attending! Every once in a while the teacher cracks up when he sees me puffing away. No one in class minded what I was doing.

Could I be the first person to vape in a school class room? maybe! lol

I'm not so sure it's as bad as all that. So far, the little most people know about PVs is from rip-off advertisers. No matter what you think about their products or business practices, at least they emphasize the safety aspects. In my experience, most people are more receptive to it than you might think.

There is one thing we can do. We can vape in public outside of smoking areas and let people see what these things are. In my experience, when they see them, more people than not think they are cool. Don't do it with an I have a right, in your face attitude. Just do it minding your own business. I've posted them before but, I have a set of rules that I use for public vaping:

• Do not hide it and do not use anything that looks like a cigarette. There's no upside, if people think you are smoking.
• I've never had it happen but, if anyone objects don't stomp your feet and say you have the right even if you've previously gotten permission. Explain what you're doing. If they still object, be polite and stop or leave.
• If you get curious questions, answer politely. In a bar, sometimes it's a good conversation starter. Send people to this forum that want to know more.
• Outside, I just vape.
• In a bar, I just vape.
• In a restaurant I typically ask. I've never been turned down.
• I still step out of the doctor's waiting room even though I've been told it's okay but, I don't leave the premises and it's non-smoking campus. Call that a personal eccentricity.

I've done this in 4 states (NC, NY, GA, and FL) and the only responses I've gotten have been positive. People are interested and when it's explained to them they think it's cool. At work (Yes, I vape at my desk), I've even been invited to use it in meetings by non-smokers.

 

[MickeyRat]

I can see a day where there is a Tax Stamp on a Bottle of e-Liquid just like on a Bottle of Booze or a Pack of Analogs.

Unfortunately, I think that's unavoidable. It'll have to be the nic though. There's no place else to grab. That's why I have a 2 year supply on hand.

Avoiding location restrictions might be possible. It's a long shot but, it's possible.

 

[solidstar]

Most people tend to look strange at me and some will ask what my ecig is. It helps if your ecig don't look like a analog cigarette though.
Most have been positive. I don't vape at places where I never use to vape, places such as a supermarket, inside shops etc. Most bars and restaurants now have a smoking ban and I will use my personal vaper there.

 

[zoiDman]

Unfortunately, I think that's unavoidable. It'll have to be the nic though. There's no place else to grab. That's why I have a 2 year supply on hand.

Avoiding location restrictions might be possible. It's a long shot but, it's possible.

Yeah, Taxation on Cartos/Attys or PV’s isn’t very Practical. But Taxation of Products Containing Nicotine isn’t Exactly New.

And there Doesn’t need to be any Big Hoopla over is Nicotine Safe or Not. They just pass the Tax.

Just like there’s a Tax on.

Gasoline
Tires
Motor Oil
Cell Phone
Cable TV
Etc.

 

[solidstar]

Oh yeah, the best thing I think I can do is to promote vaping to everyone I know and to those who ask and are interested in it. The more people start or switch to it the harder it will be ban it.

 

[PGB!]

My (Crabby) Take On It?

(The insane ranting & raving below relates to the US. I don't know how other countries' political systems operate well enough to comment.)

Pharmaceutical companies certainly would like everyone to smoke cigarettes. Heck, they have both ends covered- Chemo drugs & quit smoking drugs- some of which are very dangerous. (Read the PDR Sheets) Some companies even make the junk they fill your body with after you die from smoking, as well as some chemicals in the make-up they put on your sorry dead self.
Big Drug Co, Inc has great lobbying power, both at the state & the federal level.
Strike One

Many states gain large tax revenue from the gigunga taxes on cigarettes (allegedly greater than they spend on medicaid expenses for those damaged from smoking). Michigan, for one example, has huge cigarette taxes. Huge!
Strike Two

Since most equipment & E-Juice sales are via mail order many states, including mine, have very little power to collect Use Tax on these purchases (Use Tax is similar to Sales Tax, but it is for purchases from out-of-state vendors without a local presence. One pays these annually with their state tax return.). Most cigarettes are purchased locally. The states lose revenue.
Strike Three? Don't give up yet ...

One great & powerful lobby group that may be helpful is the insurance industry lobby- life, health and disability. They stand to save a bucket load of money if everyone would quit smoking. Perhaps they would be an ally?

Regarding banning E-Liquids- Oh, sure. That would work just as well as prohibition worked. Just as well as banning ........ worked. Just as well as banning handguns worked. The governments could spend millions trying to enforce the e-cigarette ban. Or, they could allow the sale & tax it. Heck, the only way the squashed the numbers business around here was to start their own daily lottery.

One thing that each one of us should do is be absolutely certain we know our sources & we are buying safe products. I think most vapers are pretty hip to what they are buying. But, I've read about some E-Liquids with Diacetyl in them. That stuff's OK to eat, but don't even think about inhaling it. Google it- Scary!

I believe we 'users' can make vaping a safe practice by refusing to purchase from vendors who sell liquids with what we, as the individual deem, potentially harmful chemicals- Just as we do with the food we buy.

We don't need the government to prohibit us from buying e-liquid. Just as we don't need them to tell us not to eat bacon because it is full of chemicals. The legislative dopes probably would tell us it is bad & ban e-liquid- They try to ban all kinds of 'harmful' stuff- But cigarettes are on their OK list???? I don't get it.

Side Note- Example of how government can work: I live in a state that is surrounded by fresh water- the Great Lakes. Supposedly 1/5 the world's fresh water supply. But, our state government says it is perfectly OK to buy & use trisodium phosphate- a lake killer if there ever was one! Hmmm... What state is loaded with chemical & detergent manufacturers? Oh, yeah- Now I get it!

Sorry to ramble!
Peace Y'All,
Paul

 

[Queenb]

In the uk our government says that smokers cost the NHS 4 million a year yet they make 9 million in taxes on smokers do the math they are making money. Like you say there is no monetary benefit for them with ecigs conspiracy through and through


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map

 

[tinajfreeman]

You know what is weird...I think a lot of anti-smokers resent the fact we are vaping because WE ARE CHEATING! We are supposed to suck it up, go cold turkey, and suffer as much as necessary in order to quit smoking. HOW DARE WE come up with an ingenious way to beat the system! We are cheating! We aren't "strong" in their minds because we just found a rational way around quitting smoking. We're cheaters!

If this is cheating, cheating rocks!

 

[MickeyRat]

One thing that each one of us should do is be absolutely certain we know our sources & we are buying safe products. I think most vapers are pretty hip to what they are buying. But, I've read about some E-Liquids with Diacetyl in them. That stuff's OK to eat, but don't even think about inhaling it. Google it- Scary!

I believe we 'users' can make vaping a safe practice by refusing to purchase from vendors who sell liquids with what we, as the individual deem, potentially harmful chemicals- Just as we do with the food we buy.

I DIY and the 100mg nic I get is definitely harmful unless diluted. I dilute it down to 50mg for when I'm mixing. It does bother me that it comes without childproof caps and any kind of warning on the label though.

Believe or not, as small a community as vapers that DIY are, we're large enough to have an influence on the companies that sell concentrated flavorings. Capellas says pretty prominently on their website that their flavors don't have diacetyls and Flavorart labels certain flavors as unsuitable for vaping because they do contain diacetyls.

I think the two things that are likely to happen is for the FDA to ban the sale of nicotine liquid except for over the counter and to slap a tax on it. When that happens, look for nicotine extraction kits to show up on ebay.

 

[rojo]

Some people are just fanatics looking to remake the world in their own image, and God help anyone who has an opposing point of view. To these lunatics only one opinion matters, and all others are blasphemous and should be illegal. Did you ever see that guy with the sign reading, "Get a brain, morans!" That's who we're battling. How do you intelligently discuss vaping with an ignorant, closed minded and inflamed fanatic? Personally, I'm more inclined to retort with a suggestion that the other party perform a sexual act upon himself, and I'll save my intelligent discussion for someone struggling to quit smoking who might actually benefit from the enlightenment I offer.

 

[blkhwk07]

Maybe we need to approach the government that the e-cig is an environmentally friendly device and it's electrically powered.Maybe I can get one of those multi million dollar grants,if I came up with a solar powered e-cig charger.LOL!

 

[tinajfreeman]

Maybe we need to approach the government that the e-cig is an environmentally friendly device and it's electrically powered.Maybe I can get one of those multi million dollar grants,if I came up with a solar powered e-cig charger.LOL!

Hey....I like the way you think....

 

[Firall]

You know, since I've started vaping, I've had no less than 4 people tell me something like, "I heard those are worse for you than smoking."

The general populace, really doesn't know anything about vaping at all. Someone on these forums said the sooner we start referring to them as PVs instead of e-cigs, the better off we'll all be. I'm going to have to agree with that. Cigarettes have a very negative connotation even among smokers, so a device that has cig in it's title is liable to be branded as bad by association in the eyes of those who don't know any better.

 

[DaveP]

You know, since I've started vaping, I've had no less than 4 people tell me something like, "I heard those are worse for you than smoking."

The general populace, really doesn't know anything about vaping at all. Someone on these forums said the sooner we start referring to them as PVs instead of e-cigs, the better off we'll all be. I'm going to have to agree with that. Cigarettes have a very negative connotation even among smokers, so a device that has cig in it's title is liable to be branded as bad by association in the eyes of those who don't know any better.

I try to make it simple and friendly when challenged by people who think I'm smoking and that's not really often. Most people are curious because it's obvious that my 1000mah eGo battery isn't a cigarette.

I tell them that it's an electronic cigarette. It uses propylene glycol to make the vapor and that's in many foods and other products that we use everyday. It's a thickener that's added to some soft drinks, salad dressings, toothpaste, kid's snowball juice, and hundreds of foods that we eat every day. It's non-toxic and regarded as generally safe for consumption by humans with no harmful side effects.

It uses the same type of flavorings that are used in cake and candy flavors and also contains nicotine to satisfy the cravings of stopping smoking. 98% of the nicotine is absorbed by the user and there's almost no nicotine in the exhaled vapor. There's no offensive odor, in fact most people think it smells pleasant or they detect no odor at all. Most people who start using one of these find themselves quitting smoking or drastically reducing cigarette usage in the first week. Quitting smoking using an electronic cigarette is easy and the nicotine immediately prevents most, if not all of the cravings for cigarettes. Once you begin to vape, you can order juice in lower and lower nicotine levels until you get to the zero nic point. At that point, you can continue to vape for pleasure or stop. You are no longer dependent on nicotine.

They usually comment that they have a relative that really needs to find out about these things. That's my opening to write down the URL for ECF and hand it to them. It's always a pleasant conversation that ends well. Most people are pleasantly surprised to hear about ecigs and walk away with an entirely different outlook, thinking they are a neat product.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

Exactly.

Why would they want to Ban something that can be Taxable?

I can see a day where there is a Tax Stamp on a Bottle of e-Liquid just like on a Bottle of Booze or a Pack of Analogs.

I foresee the tax stamp being on sealed pre-filled cartos and them being the only (obviously they have the tax stamp) approved nicotine source, with all the prohibition style dealings that will entail.

My long-winded rant to explain my reasoning (from a Canadian perspective) is located *** here *** if anyone is interested.

I know people are trying to organize support and I applaud them for their (usually unpaid) efforts, however I feel the past has shown that while the tobacco industry (using money as a lubricant) had a chance of being listened to, the smoker had very little input into government decisions affecting smokers. Here we go again.

Heads up!