My reasons against sub-ohming

[invisiblehand13]

It seems to me that putting time and energy into understanding why others do not share our personal tastes in vaping rather than making pejorative remarks about others' vaping preferences that don't match our own would be ever so much more helpful to our fellow vapers and in helping smokers to switch successfully to vaping. Low power is my extremely happy vaping place but I've had no difficulty whatsoever in understanding why others prefer a very high power vaping experience. Vapers who are vaping safely and courteously deserve to be fully and enthusiastically embraced by the whole of the vaping community.

So as one last note and I am just rereading what YOU posted, I do not "vape courteously and safely", last time I checked no one was mad at me for vaping the way I do and I still have my pretty face...just saying

 

[tj99959]

Ok. So I need a topper that can achive ideal AFR at low watts and then I wont notice a diffrence in cranking up the wattage? Can you suggest a RBA I try this with cause everything I own shines at higher watts I guess due to what you said which is more people are using higher watts. If I could achieve the same great thich flavor from 10 watts I wouldnt mind. I would probally save juice

There are a lot of folks that love the kayFuns in the 7-9 watt range. I have a 1.25 ohm coil in mine with an Evolve Kick-2 under it set at 8 watts. (3.1v at 2.5a)

The RDA that is my personal preference is the A7 with a 2 ohm coil. Which I like at 4v. (8 watts)

But then again I still like a 3 ohm carto tank set at about 4.5v. (7 watts)

 

[WattWick]

What kind of wire gauges are you using for those builds, Mr. tj?

 

[Raguvian]

I'm a flavor chaser, not a cloud chaser, and even still my favorite setup so far is a .3 ohm build in my Vertex V2, simply because I've found that my juices taste better with more heat. My Kayfun at 1.2 ohms and 15 watts produces nowhere near the same amount of flavor and I bet that the lack of heat is a big factor.

 

[Asbestos4004]

I didn't mean to offend anyone by saying that aiming to bigger clouds was a show-off. If I did, and it seems I may, please accept apologies. Having passed the thresholld of half-century, I may well have a very very personal view on some type of achievements.
This said, most of the time I am outside, walking in shops or driving in traffic, my only desire is that the vape was invisible. I read on forums that there are one million of vapers in the UK, I haven't seen one around yet. This make for the fact that, unless you are smoking a cig-a-like in public, you will gain the oddest and strangest looks one can hardly imagine. In this setting, you may understand one of the reasons I opted out of sub-ohming (or high-wattage vaping, to be more polite). Yes, I have a Genesis where I place my 0.3 - 0.4 Ohm coils and play the fog-machine. I'm sure it's the surefire way I can get hold of the fire brigade in the shortest possible time if I do that while sat on a bench in the public park. And yes, with the 0.3 Ohm and the proper juice I can make myself and the bench disappear in the smoke with few draws.
This said, have apologies if I offended. For the records, I am alone at home now, vaping 18 mg 50/50 cherry juice in a 3.5 ml Aspire BDC 2.1 Ohm Vivi Nova sitting on a black iStick at adjusted at 3.3 Volt. Very average vape. The Atlantis and the Genesis are sitting in a drawer, I may change mind one day.

This is where I get confused....;.and I'm sure you're not trying to start anything, so apology accepted....but....

You've stated that you're out and about a lot, traffic, shopping, walking, the park... And you've stated that you're surrounded by a million vapers, yet you've never seen one of them. Soooo.....it doesn't really seem like anyone is trying to "show off" around you. Seems they're all trying to be respectful, just like you are. So, where did your conclusion come from that anyone looking to blow clouds is just showing off? I think those that are so thirsty for that kind of attention would've appeared at least once, right?

 

[Dusif]

My reasoning why people should mind their own business

In my language we have a saying "de har ondt i røven over" it pretty much means having a pain in the rear over something someone else is doing and it is NOT said about people that talk about stuff that they are right about e.g smacking your child with a sledge hammer is wrong, but about people talking about stuff that should not be something for them to comment, like my fondness for big clouds, someone elses fondness for maxed out taste or someones fondness for minimal vape but good delivery of nicotine... Some likes it some doesn't if you dont like it, keep it to yourself since theres no reason to argue against it, vaping is a target with or without clouds

 

[invisiblehand13]

There are a lot of folks that love the kayFuns in the 7-9 watt range. I have a 1.25 ohm coil in mine with an Evolve Kick-2 under it set at 8 watts. (3.1v at 2.5a)

The RDA that is my personal preference is the A7 with a 2 ohm coil. Which I like at 4v. (8 watts)

But then again I still like a 3 ohm carto tank set at about 4.5v. (7 watts)

This reminds me of my "Phoenix" days when I thought the Phoenix was the best thing since sliced bread, I miss that thing though

 

[peraspera]

Who says we don't embrace you??? I embrace anyone who vapes but that courtesy only extends to those who don't lash out on those of us who vape differently, you like vaping at low wattage and high resistance and if that works for you that is awesome BUT that doesn't mean you are the ONLY one vaping "safely" I use regulated device's, the best batts, keep my equipment clean and do everything possible to stay "safe" but just because I vape at low resistances and high wattages means I am not being "safe" that's rubbish and that is what I do NOT embrace

Please do not totally mischaracterize my post. I did not state in my post, nor have I at any time ever, said or posted that high power vaping was unsafe. Never.

So as one last note and I am just rereading what YOU posted, I do not "vape courteously and safely", last time I checked no one was mad at me for vaping the way I do and I still have my pretty face...just saying

Vaping is under intense political attack. Rude behavior undermines public support that vapers need if we are to prevail with keeping vaping a viable choice in the future.

 

[tj99959]

This reminds me of my "Phoenix" days when I thought the Phoenix was the best thing since sliced bread, I miss that thing though

That's all right, my 48 year old car still goes pretty damn fast

 

[wheelie]

Right before summer of 2014, I started to see adverts for the pre-sale of the Aspire Atlantis, their sub-ohm batteries, and a string of cheap Genesis-like rebuildable atomisers. Many forum posts saying how sub-ohm was about to become mainstream in year 2015.
I am usually very keen to technological advancement and very willing to try new gear. At the same time, I am a former pipe smoker which has been "rescued" from smoking tobacco thanks to vaping.
In the following months, I have been talking to web shop dealers and B&M vape shop owners about the upcoming "novelty", and everybody seemed very excited by having new toys for a over-saturated vape market, which can count on switchers and many aficionados.
Well, this revolution of mainstream sub-ohming never come in reality. Many web and B&M dealers (at least, here in the UK) removed the Atlantis and other RBAs from the offer because it brought gigantic liabilities under two fronts: one, the battery side of the setup. A genuine IMR 18650 battery able to deliver 20+ Amps steadily and reliably is harder to find than previously tought; in the majority of cases, the setup just stop working after few uses.
The second front is the atomiser itself: there are no indication of sorts on what liquid has to be used. So customers were placing 18-24 mg/ml, 100% PG e-liquid in it, their "normal" e-liquid, ending up instantly ill. With current legislation, if a manufacturer doesn't provide correct info on a piece of equipment, the responsability falls with the seller; as the standard business insurance doesn't cover such cases of misuse, many reputable sellers just removed sub-ohming stuff from sale.
Back to my reasoning. If I want to make a gigantic cloud, I need to pump from 60 to 100 micrograms per second of e-liquid to the coil, which is from three to five times the amount flowing in a CE4 or Vivi or Nautilus. Subsequently, in order to keep the amount of nicotine intake within normality, I must use a liquid which is from three to five time weaker, around 6 mg/ml. Also the amount of aggressive PG is from three to five time more, so I must use the less "aggressive" VG -which is dehydrating tissues at lesser rate.
Therefore, those big clouds costs me in terms of e-liquid quantities, which I need to use from three to five times more $$$. And I will get the additional damage of more VG intake. One last thing: my BDC coils, properly cleaned every couple of days, lasts for a month; sub-ohm coils lifetime can be counted in hours.
All considered, the sub-ohming is a pure show-off activity, in the usual terms of "mine is bigger than yours". More technically riskier, more expensive, much less healthy. A big cloud can only be beneficial to the inner ego, not else.
Of course, this is the point of view of one... myself. I vape because I need the nic, and over the time I learned to appreciate the associated flavours. Your mileage may vary!

Who said subohm are for big clouds? .8 ohms on my Kayfun lite in my Mechanical Mod does not even blow my seven amp fuse I run. Therefore I think the OP should go back and rethink or refresh his memory on ohms law. It is running 22.5 watts. One has never run 22.5 watts on a regulated Mod. How else are you suppose to up your wattage to get a satisfying vape on Mechanicals?

 

[tj99959]

What kind of wire gauges are you using for those builds, Mr. tj?

30ga ..............

 

[WharfRat1976]

Right before summer of 2014, I started to see adverts for the pre-sale of the Aspire Atlantis, their sub-ohm batteries, and a string of cheap Genesis-like rebuildable atomisers. Many forum posts saying how sub-ohm was about to become mainstream in year 2015.
I am usually very keen to technological advancement and very willing to try new gear. At the same time, I am a former pipe smoker which has been "rescued" from smoking tobacco thanks to vaping.
In the following months, I have been talking to web shop dealers and B&M vape shop owners about the upcoming "novelty", and everybody seemed very excited by having new toys for a over-saturated vape market, which can count on switchers and many aficionados.
Well, this revolution of mainstream sub-ohming never come in reality. Many web and B&M dealers (at least, here in the UK) removed the Atlantis and other RBAs from the offer because it brought gigantic liabilities under two fronts: one, the battery side of the setup. A genuine IMR 18650 battery able to deliver 20+ Amps steadily and reliably is harder to find than previously tought; in the majority of cases, the setup just stop working after few uses.
The second front is the atomiser itself: there are no indication of sorts on what liquid has to be used. So customers were placing 18-24 mg/ml, 100% PG e-liquid in it, their "normal" e-liquid, ending up instantly ill. With current legislation, if a manufacturer doesn't provide correct info on a piece of equipment, the responsability falls with the seller; as the standard business insurance doesn't cover such cases of misuse, many reputable sellers just removed sub-ohming stuff from sale.
Back to my reasoning. If I want to make a gigantic cloud, I need to pump from 60 to 100 micrograms per second of e-liquid to the coil, which is from three to five times the amount flowing in a CE4 or Vivi or Nautilus. Subsequently, in order to keep the amount of nicotine intake within normality, I must use a liquid which is from three to five time weaker, around 6 mg/ml. Also the amount of aggressive PG is from three to five time more, so I must use the less "aggressive" VG -which is dehydrating tissues at lesser rate.
Therefore, those big clouds costs me in terms of e-liquid quantities, which I need to use from three to five times more $$$. And I will get the additional damage of more VG intake. One last thing: my BDC coils, properly cleaned every couple of days, lasts for a month; sub-ohm coils lifetime can be counted in hours.
All considered, the sub-ohming is a pure show-off activity, in the usual terms of "mine is bigger than yours". More technically riskier, more expensive, much less healthy. A big cloud can only be beneficial to the inner ego, not else.
Of course, this is the point of view of one... myself. I vape because I need the nic, and over the time I learned to appreciate the associated flavours. Your mileage may vary!

You tried too hard.

 

[Asbestos4004]

30ga ..............

After seeing you for nearly 2 years on this forum, I just noticed why you use that picture for your avatar. That's pretty funny.

 

[caferacer]

Right before summer of 2014, I started to see adverts for the pre-sale of the Aspire Atlantis, their sub-ohm batteries, and a string of cheap Genesis-like rebuildable atomisers. Many forum posts saying how sub-ohm was about to become mainstream in year 2015.
I am usually very keen to technological advancement and very willing to try new gear. At the same time, I am a former pipe smoker which has been "rescued" from smoking tobacco thanks to vaping.
In the following months, I have been talking to web shop dealers and B&M vape shop owners about the upcoming "novelty", and everybody seemed very excited by having new toys for a over-saturated vape market, which can count on switchers and many aficionados.
Well, this revolution of mainstream sub-ohming never come in reality. Many web and B&M dealers (at least, here in the UK) removed the Atlantis and other RBAs from the offer because it brought gigantic liabilities under two fronts: one, the battery side of the setup. A genuine IMR 18650 battery able to deliver 20+ Amps steadily and reliably is harder to find than previously tought; in the majority of cases, the setup just stop working after few uses.
The second front is the atomiser itself: there are no indication of sorts on what liquid has to be used. So customers were placing 18-24 mg/ml, 100% PG e-liquid in it, their "normal" e-liquid, ending up instantly ill. With current legislation, if a manufacturer doesn't provide correct info on a piece of equipment, the responsability falls with the seller; as the standard business insurance doesn't cover such cases of misuse, many reputable sellers just removed sub-ohming stuff from sale.
Back to my reasoning. If I want to make a gigantic cloud, I need to pump from 60 to 100 micrograms per second of e-liquid to the coil, which is from three to five times the amount flowing in a CE4 or Vivi or Nautilus. Subsequently, in order to keep the amount of nicotine intake within normality, I must use a liquid which is from three to five time weaker, around 6 mg/ml. Also the amount of aggressive PG is from three to five time more, so I must use the less "aggressive" VG -which is dehydrating tissues at lesser rate.
Therefore, those big clouds costs me in terms of e-liquid quantities, which I need to use from three to five times more $$$. And I will get the additional damage of more VG intake. One last thing: my BDC coils, properly cleaned every couple of days, lasts for a month; sub-ohm coils lifetime can be counted in hours.
All considered, the sub-ohming is a pure show-off activity, in the usual terms of "mine is bigger than yours". More technically riskier, more expensive, much less healthy. A big cloud can only be beneficial to the inner ego, not else.
Of course, this is the point of view of one... myself. I vape because I need the nic, and over the time I learned to appreciate the associated flavours. Your mileage may vary!

I was more or less with you until this sentence. While blowing huge clouds may be an ego driven thing for some, it certainly doesn't apply to all. Speaking for myself, I find an immense amount of physical satisfaction in exhaling a huge, full, and dense lung hit. That said, I only do that in the privacy of my own home. When I'm out in the world, I switch out my atomizer and try to be as stealthy as possible so as not to draw attention to myself or bother those around me.

 

[alicewonderland]

i dont do super huge clouds, but when i do vape its usually around the 0.4-1.0 range, i also go over 30watts on that, and its mostly for the 'clouds' because its more of a visual cue for me. I guess it sort of tricks my brain into thinking im actually 'smoking', because although I can get the throat hit and nicotine from lesser vaping with less clouds, I dont feel like im satisfied unless I 'see' the 'smoke' im vaping. That is why a lot of people got into smoking, because of how 'cool' it looks, they saw these adults doing something 'risky' and blowing smoke outta their mouth, the nic, health risks, and addiction were the negatives. I see the clouds in vaping the same way as that, without the visual cue of the clouds it would be too unlike smoking that it wouldnt help people quit smoking as much as it does. If it wasn't about the plumes of smoke/vapor, you would see nicorette gum work, and much more people using snus and other forms of smokeless tobacco, you just dont see that. The plumes of smoke/vapor is just as much part of the addiction as anything else.

 

[tj99959]

After seeing you for nearly 2 years on this forum, I just noticed why you use that picture for your avatar. That's pretty funny.

The perfect description of vaping topics.

 

[Trailz]

I use the Atlantis and Subtanks for flavor and not clouds. Use a mod with batteries rated at 30/35A Pulse, 20/25A continuous and you're good. When I'm in situations that require subtlety, I use an Aerotank V2 or Nautilus Mini with 1.8 ohm coils.

 

[tj99959]

I use the Atlantis and Subtanks for flavor and not clouds. Use a mod with batteries rated at 30/35A Pulse, 20/25A continuous and you're good. When I'm in situations that require subtlety, I use an Aerotank V2 or Nautilus Mini with 1.8 ohm coils.

You are still not hearing what some of us are saying, but that's partially because of the "trends" when you started vaping. (clearos)
It's quite easy to get the same (or better) flavor without the clouds if you take the time to learn how.

Some people want the clouds, and that's also understandable. But, the idea that you need the cloud in order to get flavor is not true.

 

[Trailz]

You are still not hearing what some of us are saying, but that's partially because of the "trends" when you started vaping. (clearos)
It's quite easy to get the same (or better) flavor without the clouds if you take the time to learn how.

Some people want the clouds, and that's also understandable. But, the idea that you need the cloud in order to get flavor is not true.

I understand that. Also understand that I tried both the Atlantis and Subtank and like them both. What's wrong with that? As others have said, the sub ohm clearos are hardly cloud chasing devices contrary to how they're marketed/advertised.

 

[tj99959]

I understand that. Also understand that I tried both the Atlantis and Subtank and like them both. What's wrong with that? As others have said, the sub ohm clearos are hardly cloud chasing devices contrary to how they're marketed/advertised.

There isn't anything wrong with that if they are what you like. They're just not the only way is the point.

(maybe I should have said sub ohm instead of cloud)

Actually I find it kind of funny that these sub ohm tanks are just now showing up when the trend is now shifting to higher resistance at a higher wattage. Proving once again that <~ way or ~> way does not effect the ability to get the vape that you want.