My take on the FDA "report"

[BigJimW]

I want to give my take on this FDA "report". Basically a rundown of what they supposedly "found" and my opinions.

From their report:

Specifically, DPA's analysis of the electronic cigarette cartridges from the two leading brands revealed the following:

* Diethylene glycol was detected in one cartridge at approximately 1%. Diethylene glycol, an ingredient used in antifreeze, is toxic to humans.
* Certain tobacco-specific nitrosamines which are human carcinogens were detected in half of the samples tested.
* tobacco-specific impurities suspected of being harmful to humans—anabasine, myosmine, and β-nicotyrine—were detected in a majority of the samples tested.
* The electronic cigarette cartridges that were labeled as containing no nicotine had low levels of nicotine present in all cartridges tested, except one.
* Three different electronic cigarette cartridges with the same label were tested and each cartridge emitted a markedly different amount of nicotine with each puff. The nicotine levels per puff ranged from 26.8 to 43.2 mcg nicotine/100 mL puff.
* One high-nicotine cartridge delivered twice as much nicotine to users when the vapor from that electronic cigarette brand was inhaled than was delivered by a sample of the nicotine inhalation product (used as a control) approved by FDA for use as a smoking cessation aid.

Lets break it down:

* Diethylene glycol was detected in one cartridge at approximately 1%. Diethylene glycol, an ingredient used in antifreeze, is toxic to humans.

Found in HOW MANY cartridges in HOW MANY you tested? I think this was more of a manufacturing defect that needs to be addressed so this does not happen again. Yet, this is the FDAs flagship banter on these things

* Certain tobacco-specific nitrosamines which are human carcinogens were detected in half of the samples tested.

Care to specify WHICH ONES were found? It is amazing the news outlets also were silent on the list of these supposed "nitrosamines" you found. Just harped on the anti-freze angle. Without specifics, you can say just about anything you want. And only in HALF the cartridges. What was found in the OTHER half?

* Tobacco-specific impurities suspected of being harmful to humans—anabasine, myosmine, and β-nicotyrine—were detected in a majority of the samples tested.

"Suspected" with absolutely no evidence to be a fact. And even if they were found, they were in such small traces you had to practically suck on these cartridges with machines that measured in PARTS PER BILLION! You could find impurities in Holy Water if you looked hard enough

* The electronic cigarette cartridges that were labeled as containing no nicotine had low levels of nicotine present in all cartridges tested, except one.

Alcohol Free Beer also contains trace elements of alcohol, yet is labeled alcohol free. The nicotine found were in such small traces that legally, like alcohol free beer, could be labeled "nicotine free", as it is in such minute traces it would be impossible for someone to get hooked. PPB tests can reveal a lot. Do the same test on a tomato and you'll find nicotine, and probably in the same trace quantities.

* Three different electronic cigarette cartridges with the same label were tested and each cartridge emitted a markedly different amount of nicotine with each puff. The nicotine levels per puff ranged from 26.8 to 43.2 mcg nicotine/100 mL puff.

Same thing happens with a real cigarette. The range of nicotine delivered is in proportion to how the person draws in the drug. Since you were doing such minute testing, it is easy to see a difference in nicotine levels. And the nicotine levels you describe are no higher than a real full strength, non filter cigarette. Which are still legal by the way. Nicotine is NOT cancer causing either.

* One high-nicotine cartridge delivered twice as much nicotine to users when the vapor from that electronic cigarette brand was inhaled than was delivered by a sample of the nicotine inhalation product (used as a control) approved by FDA for use as a smoking cessation aid.

Which is WHY NRTs do not work. The nicotine levels provided do not compensate for the ACTUAL nicotine people get from real cigarettes. Do the same test using a real cigarette and compair it to that inhaler, THEN get back yo us.

I will leave you all to draw your own conclusions.

 

[BigJimW]

I also released this as a press release to PRLog and placed it here

Moonport Productions Pressroom 1 - Editorial: Our Take On The FDA Lab Report

 

[Houdini]

Well the last 3 they should not even have listed. These are nicotine replacement devices and at the levels they found in the no-nic carts. what is there to worry about? Nicotine in the amount they found wouldn't even have an effect on a mouse.

The second one, tobacco-specific nitrosamines, is also in cigarettes. Why don't they ban cigarettes for that one reason alone then?

The first one, Diethylene glycol. If you took that one % they found in one cartridge it might make a fly a little sick but a human I'm sure would not even realize it was there. I accidentally took a whole mouth full of pure antifreeze one time when I was flushing my radiator. Of course I spit it out but I did ingest some of it and had no ill feeling whatsoever.

Adults build immunities to these kind of things in the doses they found or else we'd all be dead a long time ago just from breathing. If e-cigs were that dangerous as they want us to believe wouldn't there have been a reported death by now?

 

[BigJimW]

Well the last 3 they should not even have listed. These are nicotine replacement devices and at the levels they found in the no-nic carts. what is there to worry about? Nicotine in the amount they found wouldn't even have an effect on a mouse.

The second one, tobacco-specific nitrosamines, is also in cigarettes. Why don't they ban cigarettes for that one reason alone then?

The first one, Diethylene glycol. If you took that one % they found in one cartridge it might make a fly a little sick but a human I'm sure would not even realize it was there. I accidentally took a whole mouth full of pure antifreeze one time when I was flushing my radiator. Of course I spit it out but I did ingest some of it and had no ill feeling whatsoever.

Adults build immunities to these kind of things in the doses they found or else we'd all be dead a long time ago just from breathing. If e-cigs were that dangerous as they want us to believe wouldn't there have been a reported death by now?

The basic bottom line is this FDA "test" is a sham. I work with many people who don't smoke and even THEY realize this report for what it is. Since the FDA gained control over cigarettes, they are doing their best to protect the hands that feed them (big pharma, now big tobacco)

This is not the first time the FDA made errors that ultimately cost people their lives, and sadly it will not be the last.

 

[ProtoType]

BigJimW, you did your homework and I whole-heartedly agree. I have to say good job and good comments. Very true.

I wonder if anyone that uses electronic cigarettes has any family members in the FDA. It would be nice to have an inside man to "show them the light" so to speak. But the guy would probably end up getting fired anyway so I would understand if a man or woman wouldn't want to risk losing their job in this economy.

 

[Kent C]

Do the same test on a tomato and you'll find nicotine, and probably in the same trace quantities.

It's been a while since I read it but with the carcinogens that are in a tomato, mainly in the skin, if it were made by man the FDA would ban it. Fruits and vegetables have their own built in herbicides and pesticides where levels of these chemicals are way beyond the level of 'trace'.

As for the Diethylene Glycol that has to be some Monday or Friday deal of cleaning out the vats/lines/etc. for a switch over to PG. It could happen anywhere and I'm guessing if a thorough testing of any PG made in any country, you'd very likely get similar results in any food product or any other product that uses PG or VG. The FDA doesn't test every batch that's produced and all it takes is one guy or gal not being Monk.

 

[thePOXcrew]

hmm, greensmokes e cigs were approved by the fda.
y werent these.
>.>

 

[BigJimW]

It's been a while since I read it but with the carcinogens that are in a tomato, mainly in the skin, if it were made by man the FDA would ban it. Fruits and vegetables have their own built in herbicides and pesticides where levels of these chemicals are way beyond the level of 'trace'.

As for the Diethylene Glycol that has to be some Monday or Friday deal of cleaning out the vats/lines/etc. for a switch over to PG. It could happen anywhere and I'm guessing if a thorough testing of any PG made in any country, you'd very likely get similar results in any food product or any other product that uses PG or VG. The FDA doesn't test every batch that's produced and all it takes is one guy or gal not being Monk.

I am more than convinced that this was the case. Somehow this got into one of the cartridges that the FDA tested. The FDA tested what I believe was over 30 carts and found this in only one. Maybe the manufacturer will learn from this and not make the same mistake again.

But the sad fact remains is that this one defect ended up in the hands of the FDA, who has every reason to seek their ban. Instead of the usual corrective action that would take place, the FDA instead uses this argument as their flagship banter on the evils of the electronic cigarette. They must have loved every minute of it.

 

[Kent C]

I am more than convinced that this was the case. Somehow this got into one of the cartridges that the FDA tested. The FDA tested what I believe was over 30 carts and found this in only one. Maybe the manufacturer will learn from this and not make the same mistake again.

But the sad fact remains is that this one defect ended up in the hands of the FDA, who has every reason to seek their ban. Instead of the usual corrective action that would take place, the FDA instead uses this argument as their flagship banter on the evils of the electronic cigarette. They must have loved every minute of it.

BigJim,

I passed along some info to Mary Kay in a PM, she thought I might note on board:

Basically that Diethylene glycol is a substance near and dear to the heart of the FDA. It is what got the agency started in the first place.

FDA has banned on all China made toothpaste due to its poisonous chemical: diethylene glycol (DEG). U.S. health officials are beginning to check all shipments of

"Diethylene glycol is toxic to humans and animals. It has been responsible for a number of mass poisonings. The most infamous incident was the 1937 Elixir Sulfanilamide disaster in the USA, in which 107 people died after taking sulfanilamide dissolved in diethylene glycol. This episode was the impetus for the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act of 1938."

And it is this type of reaction that our gov't had during those times and a bit before during the 'progressive age'. Rather than arresting and convicting and sentencing the actual people who were responsible - which is one of the best deterrences for it happening again, they form some 3 or 4 letter agency that grows into some behemoth that perpetuates itself by harrassing and threatening businesses and individuals and making all of us less free.

When 'caveat emptor' where buyers are responsible as well, is no longer a monitoring factor in what people buy, and they leave their health in the hands of some gov't bureaucrat, what you get is a country of 'victims'.

And when gov't takes over functions that could be done and has been done well by either private industry such as consumer reports, UL listing and other companies who make their money by testing products upon which manufactures, distributers, and retailers depend, then you get more harm, injuries and deaths to consumers and workers.

And it might be noted that you can't save everyone from themselves. You have a 'darwin award' factor that will be there no matter how many 'big brother' agencies are created and how closely they monitor every action of every human being - people will still find a way to harm or kill themselves and yet the impetus to stop that from happening takes away the freedom of those who just want to live their lives in peace out of the reach of the long arm of gov't.

 

[guero]

All I know is that I was smoking a pack a day and since I got my e cig two weeks ago, I havent had or even wanted a real cig.

 

[planetjacker]

I'm glad I found this thread.

A co-worker told me he heard on the news that e-cigs had a chemical from anti-freeze in them but I had nothing to come back with other than I had not heard that. Now I have something to tell him.

 

[ddouglas01]

so booze? cool.
analog cigarettes that kill, not so cool, but cool.
e-cigarettes, make common sense, but NOT cool.
we all know it's ridiculous.

by the way...what is the ATF now? AF?

just wandering.

 

[BigJimW]

so booze? cool.
analog cigarettes that kill, not so cool, but cool.
e-cigarettes, make common sense, but NOT cool.
we all know it's ridiculous.

by the way...what is the ATF now? AF?

just wandering.