Need Input Please!?

[Catfishy]

Ok folks here’s the deal. My place of employment (a hospital) just recently allowed vapeing as an alternative for patients to a patch or gum while on campus. I was fine with that. As an employee I am still on the down-low. However last night one of the nursing supervisors took it upon herself to ban vapeing because of what I feel is her lack of education on the subject. This is the mass email she sent to the entire facility…8-o
Everyone,

Just so we are all clear, electronic cigarettes are no longer permitted on the campus of St. BLA BLA. There are some brands that still contain tobacco and we do not always know how to distinguish between the two. As a result, none of them are permitted on the campus. If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you,

Heather

Heather Xxxxx, RN, BSN, CMSRN
Nurse Manager
3 East and TCU


Now someone please correct me if I am wrong! There is no tobacco in e-juice correct? There is Nicotine I will agree. I think the argument comes from rule that our campus is “Tobacco Free.” And just so I can even take it a step further what is the idea of second hand nicotine from vapeing? I really need some words of clarity and wisdom here.

 

[CCC]

Bummer, she really needs to do her research. Technically nicotine is a tobacco product but patches and gum contain it too. As long as nobody blows it directly into someone elses mouth there is really no harm from being around a vaper.

 

[Retriever]

She sounds ignorant. She needs educating.

Maybe give her boss this: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/index.php/what-are-e-cigarettes.html

That is, if it won't get you in trouble. If so, then just share it with her. Couldn't hurt.

 

[Catfishy]

She sounds ignorant. She needs educating.

Maybe give her boss this: What Are E-Cigarettes?

That is, if it won't get you in trouble. If so, then just share it with her. Couldn't hurt.

Thank you Retriever! That was a little biased but very cool to have in my arsenal!

 

[BluSwatch]

Who authorized the vaping in the first place ..... I would think a hospital administrator. And if it's for your entire campus, can a ward supervisor over-ride him or her?
What are the other wards doing that are not under her 3 East and TCU umbrella?
Geesh .....

 

[SHM0KEY]

I'm not sure how good your relationship with her is, but you could always try talking to her. Keep it casual if you can, then politely and respectfully explain away her concerns/issues (you would have to do your research of course). I think that's probably your best chance of changing things.

I find that many managers/supervisors are fairly insecure about their authority. So the key to being successful would be to absolutely NOT make her feel like she's retreating or losing a battle in anyway. Everyone has an ego, and you certainly do attract more flies with honey.

Just my two bits.

 

[Retriever]

I'm not sure how good your relationship with her is, but you could always try talking to her. Keep it casual if you can, then politely and respectfully explain away her concerns/issues (you would have to do your research of course). I think that's probably your best chance of changing things.

I find that many managers/supervisors are fairly insecure about their authority. So the key to being successful would be to absolutely NOT make her feel like she's retreating or losing a battle in anyway. Everyone has an ego, and you certainly do attract more flies with honey.

Just my two bits.

I agree. Talking is probably the best route. I am a licensed RN (not practicing) and I know how nurses and nurse managers are. Nurse managers are control freaks, so the "attracting flies with honey" is most likely the best approach. The only question I have is this: Who wants to attract flies?

 

[Catfishy]

Who authorized the vaping in the first place ..... I would think a hospital administrator. And if it's for your entire campus, can a ward supervisor over-ride him or her?
What are the other wards doing that are not under her 3 East and TCU umbrella?
Geesh .....

BluSwatch,
Not really sure how this came down but I think that because it was over the weekend and administration was not there she made a "command decision."
I am almost certain that there will be a debate on the subject and I am looking for assistance to defend what I know in my heart is the right thing to do. But thank you so much for pointing that out to me. She may have authority on her wing but as for making a policy I think you are correct she has fired her cannons a bit prematurely.

 

[Catfishy]

SHM0KEY,
I used to have a great rep-or with Heather. That is until she moved to management. The brain has been assimilated and the taste of power is what she knows now.
I so agree with your kindness approach. My fear is that I am too emotionally attached to the argument to maintain a cool head. I am fearful that Heather will not or won't want to see our views as a part of a movement to end analogs.
Your Two Bits are always welcome!

 

[BluSwatch]

......she has fired her cannons a bit prematurely.

LOL That's great! Can I borrow that?
I guess all you can do is get information ready in the event you'll need it. Hopefully the situation will pan out ..... Good luck!
I worked in Navy Medicine for 25 yrs .... I know how those "command decisions" go.

 

[Catfishy]

LOL That's great! Can I borrow that?

YOU MAY ABSOLUTELY BORROW IT!
I was in Artillery for 12 years with the Army. I think that is where I got those ideas. So they aren't really mine to claim.

 

[SHM0KEY]

SHM0KEY,
I used to have a great rep-or with Heather. That is until she moved to management. The brain has been assimilated and the taste of power is what she knows now.
I so agree with your kindness approach. My fear is that I am too emotionally attached to the argument to maintain a cool head. I am fearful that Heather will not or won't want to see our views as a part of a movement to end analogs.
Your Two Bits are always welcome!

Well, I know it's tough to change someone's mind once they've made their "executive decision". And quite frankly, I don't think your chances are that great, but I still think the route with the best chances are to approach her as a friend and not an adversary. Don't think of it as some kind of bad decision that must be reversed, because Heather won't go for that. Instead, treat it like a slower more gradual process where you're trying to make her almost figure it out on her own. Bring it up casually and regularly, but without pressing. That's your best bet IMHO.

 

[BluSwatch]

Catfishy - are the docs behind letting their patients vape? That will be the biggest factor .....

 

[Catfishy]

Catfishy - are the docs behind letting their patients vape? That will be the biggest factor .....

BlueSwatch,
I know several are. But that is a great question! It just so happens I have an advocate in my corner. I was so caught up in the issue I failed to remember that the Chief of Staff and I have a close personal relationship! Thank you so much for jogging my brain in the correct direction!

I am so consumed with defending from haters that I am loosing my clarity on the real issue at hand.

 

[AttyPops]

The funny part is

There are some brands that still contain tobacco and we do not always know how to distinguish between the two.

OK, well. That's the sad part.

1) Have her talk to someone in the lab. Hell, they can do toxicology on blood samples, figuring this out should be a piece of cake.
2) It's really just an excuse... maybe because someone else .....ed.
3) Education is the best option, but often doesn't overcome rationalization unless that education is in logic skills. So it's probably a "you're screwed" situation. You're lucky it isn't a nicotine free policy like some hospitals have. Very Orwellian.

 

[tidegirl]

It may be best to let the chief of staff take up the fight for you. We all know how witches on power trips can be to deal with... usually not much luck. Hopefully when admin shows up this morning it will all be overturned anyway. After all, one nursing supervisor does not write the hospital policy, and this has already been approved.

As a side note, I was just hearing on the news last night (CBS overnight stuff I think?) That a higher percentage of bosses are crazy (I forget what kind of crazy) than in the overall population. This is just more proof of that. I really wish I had paid better attention now , would be nice to have my facts straight. I heard it at least 3 times but wasn't really paying attention.

 

[hairball]

Here's a start for you...good luck. I personally hate control freaks.

Electronic cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy for tobacco control: A step forward or a repeat of past mistakes? If you have problems viewing that one...try here...http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/centers-institutes/population-development/files/article.jphp.pdf

CASAA.org

I forgot to add...yes, some vendors actually make some of the ejuice from tobacco leaves. These do...damn tasty stuff I might add but it clogs attys and cartos rather quickly...want2vape, primevaping, and some of AVE's.

I also want to add that if she is going to ban ecigs, then she also need to ban ALL NRT because nicotine, unless synthetically made, comes from tobacco.

 

[Catfishy]

Here's a start for you...good luck. I personally hate control freaks.

Electronic cigarettes as a harm reduction strategy for tobacco control: A step forward or a repeat of past mistakes? If you have problems viewing that one...try here...http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/centers-institutes/population-development/files/article.jphp.pdf

CASAA.org

I forgot to add...yes, some vendors actually make some of the ejuice from tobacco leaves. These do...damn tasty stuff I might add but it clogs attys and cartos rather quickly...want2vape, primevaping, and some of AVE's.

I also want to add that if she is going to ban ecigs, then she also need to ban ALL NRT because nicotine, unless synthetically made, comes from tobacco.

OMG Hairball!!!!
LOVE YOU!!!!
THANK YOU!!!
This is just the kind of stuff I love!
You are Awesome!

 

[hairball]

OMG Hairball!!!!
LOVE YOU!!!!
THANK YOU!!!
This is just the kind of stuff I love!
You are Awesome!

You're welcome. CASAA has some really good literature that you want to print off and take to her so she can read it for herself. I hope she can understand that it's no more harmful than drinking a caffeine drink. Also pg is used in hospitals all the time..read something about IV's and inhalers somewhere but for the life of me (and being up since yesterday afternoon) I can't remember where...might be in the CASAA lit but don't quote me on that. Good luck to you in getting it through her thick head.