Need recipes with less than 5% total flavoring?

[survivalist538]

Some brands like RF are alcohol based, maybe try a couple of those. There are opinions out there for you.

I think you might be right about using flavors with alcohol as their base. I was wondering if ethanol/ethyl alcohol ever converts into diacetyl at any given condition? I did read up that it shouldn't be a problem with diacetyl inhalation as we intake very little amounts of it but it's good to know if that's the property I will end up with in my mixes. Another thing I would want to know is about how much flavor percentage would be used for alcohol based flavoring compare to PG based flavoring? I am really interested in checking the RF's line and see if that's something that might do me justice. Your comment was really helpful. Thank you.

 

[survivalist538]

I got some PEG400 because the DW doesn't do too much for my massive clouds. I have a bunch of it steeping (I tested it first to make sure I wasn't PEG400 sensitive, but I won't be touching those mixes for a while as I steep for about a month. It will be interesting to see results.
Anna

This sounds like a very good plan that might just work great on me. I was wondering as to why PEG400 is not used as a flavor agent? Another thing I was noticing is that not all flavors come with PG based, some are alcohol based as mentioned above by @Letitia as well. I was looking up NaturesFlavors that use natural ethyl alcohol as their base. Now I am a bit stuck on finding the right answer and I have looked everywhere. I just want to know a few things about this. I want to know if Ethyl Alcohol evaporates during steeping process of about 3-4 weeks without taking the cap off? Does ethyl alcohol ever change into diacetyl at any given condition (although I am not too worried about it, but just want to know if it will exist in my mixes) and what is the process of putting ethyl alcohol based flavoring into the calculator on ELR and at what percentage should it be used? Can I treat it just like a pg based flavor? and does the alcohol part of it calm down after 3-4 weeks of steeping? I don't know if you've ever used such flavors based off of ethyl alcohol but if you have, please do give me your advice on that. Thank you once again Anna for your comments. I really appreciate the support here!

 

[survivalist538]

I tried a couple of their VG based flavors and did not care for them. I had to use them at upwards of 20% to get any flavor. I only use their Super Concentrates now and I let them steep at least 30 days, usually longer though as I always make more than I need to be sure they have plenty of time to steep. Most are fine after a 2 or 3 week steep.

Yes I been searching up more about VG based flavoring and it's not something I would find myself interested in. Sounds like I would go through a lot of struggle trying to get those flavors to work good. I want to try some flavors with alcohol as their base to see how that works out for me. If it doesn't work well I will try to get me some SC. I just feel superbly offended by PG even at 5% in my mixes But thanks for your comments, they're well appreciated.

 

[Fozzy71]

Another thing I would want to know is about how much flavor percentage would be used for alcohol based flavoring compare to PG based flavoring?

The RF SC (alcohol based) flavors can vary wildly in terms of how much to use. Something like their Cheesecake can be overpowering above 0.5% in a mix while something like their Blueberry Pastry or Cookies and Cream you might use at 2.5% in a mix or 3 - 4% as a standalone single flavor recipe. The Flavor List on the ELR site is a good place for finding suggested percentages to use as a single flavor or as part of a recipe.

p.s. some of the RF SC's do have the baddies like diacetyl (sp?) which you can find detailed on their site.

 

[survivalist538]

I'm glad to help. I am even happier if you can find something useful in all my ramblings! I agree 100% that ECF is a great community!!

Thank you for all the information you've given me thus far. I did try making myself another mix using VG I bought from cvs until my order gets here from essential depot. It tasted slightly different but nothing bad. I tried making 5pg/95vg to see if the problems still exist. Not at first, but if I continued to vape it for 1 hour with breaks in middle, I was back to those problems again but slightly noticeable. May I say I even did this with 100% VG all day long without any problems before that So I am certain it's either my body that is not allergic to PG yet reacts to it in a sensitive way or it's an allergy to PG. I been smoke-free from 7 months now, and it may just be my body trying to fully recover from cigarettes as to why PG is becoming sensitive to my body. The reason I believe it might be a reaction to that is because once I went back to VG, within the next 1 hour I was back to normal again. I don't know if it was an allergy reaction because wouldn't my symptoms remain for longer duration? I have stop messing with it though, and went back to 100% VG again. I have VG/PG coming in, along with Pg based nicotine that I might not even use now. I still have VG based nicotine which is working great for me. I did get a lot of help here and they also recommended that I look into alcohol based flavorings such as NaturesFlavors and RF. I'm still searching more about them before I pull the trigger on buying flavors from them. I wanted to know about how much percentage I can use with them compared to Pg based flavoring, how long is the steeping method combining the 100%VG with it, and how can I plug it into the ELR calculator? I been trying to look everywhere for such answers. I guess I have to find posts with users using their mixes but even after that, most users aren't aiming for 100% VG. Thank you very much for your input, it's well appreciated!

 

[survivalist538]

The RF SC (alcohol based) flavors can vary wildly in terms of how much to use. Something like their Cheesecake can be overpowering above 0.5% in a mix while something like their Blueberry Pastry or Cookies and Cream you might use at 2.5% in a mix or 3 - 4% as a standalone single flavor recipe. The Flavor List on the ELR site is a good place for finding suggested percentages to use as a single flavor or as part of a recipe.

p.s. some of the RF SC's do have the baddies like diacetyl (sp?) which you can find detailed on their site.

I just realized RF SC's flavors are alcohol based :O.. Thanks!

 

[puffon]

NN also carries VG/alcohol based flavors
Concentrated Flavorings Archives - Nude Nicotine

 

[IDJoel]

I did get a lot of help here and they also recommended that I look into alcohol based flavorings such as NaturesFlavors and RF. I'm still searching more about them before I pull the trigger on buying flavors from them. I wanted to know about how much percentage I can use with them compared to Pg based flavoring, how long is the steeping method combining the 100%VG with it, and how can I plug it into the ELR calculator? I been trying to look everywhere for such answers. I guess I have to find posts with users using their mixes but even after that, most users aren't aiming for 100% VG.

I have yet to use alcohol-based flavors. I have used flavors that include alcohol... but not as the sole/primary carrier. Alcohol is neither PG, nor VG, so it does not affect the PG/VG ratio. It affects total volume; and therefore general dilution of ingredients (e.g. nicotine). The challenge is to find a calculator that allows you to specify a carrier other than PG or VG for your flavors (many will offer a separate line for single non-PG/VG ingredient like water or alcohol; but not multiple ingredients).

 

[Fozzy71]

Thank you for all the information you've given me thus far. I did try making myself another mix using VG I bought from cvs until my order gets here from essential depot. It tasted slightly different but nothing bad. I tried making 5pg/95vg to see if the problems still exist. Not at first, but if I continued to vape it for 1 hour with breaks in middle, I was back to those problems again but slightly noticeable. May I say I even did this with 100% VG all day long without any problems before that So I am certain it's either my body that is not allergic to PG yet reacts to it in a sensitive way or it's an allergy to PG. I been smoke-free from 7 months now, and it may just be my body trying to fully recover from cigarettes as to why PG is becoming sensitive to my body. The reason I believe it might be a reaction to that is because once I went back to VG, within the next 1 hour I was back to normal again. I don't know if it was an allergy reaction because wouldn't my symptoms remain for longer duration? I have stop messing with it though, and went back to 100% VG again. I have VG/PG coming in, along with Pg based nicotine that I might not even use now. I still have VG based nicotine which is working great for me. I did get a lot of help here and they also recommended that I look into alcohol based flavorings such as NaturesFlavors and RF. I'm still searching more about them before I pull the trigger on buying flavors from them. I wanted to know about how much percentage I can use with them compared to Pg based flavoring, how long is the steeping method combining the 100%VG with it, and how can I plug it into the ELR calculator? I been trying to look everywhere for such answers. I guess I have to find posts with users using their mixes but even after that, most users aren't aiming for 100% VG. Thank you very much for your input, it's well appreciated!

I have yet to use alcohol-based flavors. I have used flavors that include alcohol... but not as the sole/primary carrier. Alcohol is neither PG, nor VG, so it does not affect the PG/VG ratio. It affects total volume; and therefore general dilution of ingredients (e.g. nicotine). The challenge is to find a calculator that allows you to specify a carrier other than PG or VG for your flavors (many will offer a separate line for single non-PG/VG ingredient like water or alcohol; but not multiple ingredients).

I use @HotRod19579 diy juice calculator which you can read and learn more about here - New Calculator to try

I am not worried about pg/vg ratio other than not going over 70vg as 80vg juice caused me to have 'heavy chest/lung' issues which wasn't good for my asthma. I am not sure if it will do all of what you need but it is easily one of the most feature rich calcs out there, and it is free, though it is basically abandoned at this point as the developer has been AWOL for about a year.

 

[IDJoel]

I use @HotRod19579 diy juice calculator which you can read and learn more about here - New Calculator to try

...{edit by IDJoel}... I am not sure if it will do all of what you need but it is easily one of the most feature rich calcs out there, and it is free,

I just checked by setting up a test recipe and using 0PG/0VG based ingredients. It seemed to work fine. Here's what it looked like:
For the ingredients I set them up like this:

I created 3 identical ingredient profiles to see how it would handle the absence of PG and/or VG in the flavors.

With three "flavor" profiles, all having 0PG/0VG values, I threw together this arbitrary recipe using 100mg/mL VG nic, and with 10% total flavoring:

So, to me, it appears to handle multiple ingredients that have PG/VG ratios that equal less than 100%.

I have a secondary question for you @Fozzy71. I know that you have had some more detailed correspondence with the folks at RF. I see this statement in their FAQs:

As I understand it (and I could be completely wrong), the actual flavor-contributing components make up a very small percentage of the completed concentrate, and RF is saying they are using a "up to 3%" alcohol in their SC line. So what are they using for the rest of their carrier base? VG? PG? Water? Some combo of any or all three? I thought RF used to disclose that info; but I couldn't find it?

though it is basically abandoned at this point as the developer has been AWOL for about a year.

I'm not sure why folks are so fixated on this. I have never heard any discussion regarding developer access for any other software. I guess some of us got spoiled by weekly updates and virtually on-demand feature additions. I find it a good, feature rich, stable program; and have no qualms recommending it to others.

If I were to offer a caveat for DIY JuiceCalculator; it would be that it is written only for Windows operating systems. Though, some Mac and Linux users speak of success using Wine, or some other Windows emulator. Tablet/lap-top/phone users with Android, Google, FireFox operating systems will likely need to look elsewhere.

 

[Fozzy71]

As I understand it (and I could be completely wrong), the actual flavor-contributing components make up a very small percentage of the completed concentrate, and RF is saying they are using a "up to 3%" alcohol in their SC line. So what are they using for the rest of their carrier base? VG? PG? Water? Some combo of any or all three? I thought RF used to disclose that info; but I couldn't find it?

he addressed it on ELR once upon a time but I don't recall the specifics as I didn't really care to be honest. I imagine if you or this guy emailed them they would be able to find out.

I'm not sure why folks are so fixated on this. I have never heard any discussion regarding developer access for any other software.

It is mostly me that is 'fixated' on this as I do tech support for a software company. Ours is not free like juice calc of course but if we stopped updating our current software for a year all of our customers would call it abandoned. I have used many other free software programs over the years for online poker and if something didn't get updated for months, and the developer/support stopped replying to forum posts and emails, we def called it abandoned and moved on to something else if the software stopped working because of lack of updates.

juice calc obv still works just fine and I will use it until it doesn't but if it hasnt been updated in a year and the dev is awol that software is effectively abandoned at that point even if it still works for everything I need it for.

 

[survivalist538]

I use @HotRod19579 diy juice calculator which you can read and learn more about here - New Calculator to try

Cool, I will download this and check it out to see how it works out with me.

 

[Kickingthesticks]

Try ripe strawberry @2% dragon fruit @1% dx bavairan cream @ 1.5% koolada @.5%
It's still missing a few flavors but it's the base for one of my favorite recipes on elr