Need some advice regarding 100% VG base

[Nate M.]

Hi guys,

I'm completely new to DIY, when I got my DIY vapemail I jumped the gun and wasted a bunch of liquid (50%VG + 50%flavor) lol. Tasted like.. rose petals in my brain.

Anyways, I'm looking for some advice in regards to starting with a 100% VG base. I have some 100% PG (nic) coming in this week from WL hopefully, but will delve into that later.


Questions:

-When using 100% VG base and PG flavoring, do I still need to add water?

-When using 100% VG base, what is a general % of flavoring I can expect to use? 20-25%?(I read that VG hardly carries flavor)

-With MBV flavorings, what % of flavoring do you suggest to start with?

I guess I should've started with a 50VG/50PG base to keep things simple.. But all I have at the moment to work with is VG. Any suggestions would be great. I haven't been able to taste much, it's either a floral overdose or no taste except what ends up on my tongue.

There is a Michael's down the street and I was thinking about getting some flavoring there if my MBV stuff isn't working out.

I have a few jars at home in the rice cooker at 70%vg+25%flavor+5%water, 75%vg+25%flavor, and 80%vg+15%flavor+5%water.

Any help would be great!
Nate

 

[Kurt]

I am not familiar with Michael's flavorings, but for most regular flavors (not superconcentrates or tobacco absolutes) most people vape between 5% and 20%, depending on the person.

I make only VG juices, but I do use flavors that are often solutions of flavor compounds in PG, so many of my juices do have PG. My flavored juices are between 5% and 10% flavoring...more than that is too much PG for me. Many here use a mix of PG and VG for the base, but there are also many here that cannot tolerate PG much.

My general formula for a flavored VG juice is %flavor + %water (distilled) = ~22%. Water thins a little more than PG, but that is a good ball park for me. At this consistency they wick well and tend to not burn or clog.

I also enjoy unflavored VG juices (just nic, VG and water). For that I use 20% water.

Of course it is ALL subjective, and what I like you may not like. So experimenting with small amounts is a good thing to do, and expect a little time before you are able to make something you like.

 

[awsum140]

I'd say to look around for a good mixing calculator. There are several here on ECF, some of which need Xcel and some of which don't. It will give you exact quantities at your finger tips, eliminate errors, especially with nicotine, and generally make mixing a lot easier. I can't offer advice regarding how much flavoring to use because I mix at 60/40 and use, almost exclusively, strong tobacco flavors.

 

[Screamin Eagle]

I use all VG as well. I cut it with 10% distilled water for a bace. I don't use nicotine so my only other additives are flavoring and liquid sweetener. My Evod seems to like the thicker liquid.

One thing that I've learned in my very short time getting into mixing is that there are some flavors that are really light (such as some apples) and others that are very strong (such as caramel). I'm right now working on a caramel apple recipe where, in this last batch, I'm using 20% Lorann apple and 5% LorAnn caramel. We'll see how that turns out.

I've also tryed my hand at making a spearmint. I went 15% flavoring on my first try and it was way Way WAY too much. Read a little. Learned a little. Made my next batch using 2% flavoring and it's still a tiny bit spicy but OH does it tast good droped on my finger. Right now all I have is plastic clearomisers so I have to let it set up while I wait till the glass tank clearo I want comes out the beginning of this month.. But if it vapes as good as it tastes I may have I first winner.

 

[release the kraken]

as a rule of thumb you are always going to use around 20% flavoring, but as the apple caramel example above, some flavors are stronger than others so its always safer to start low, test, add more flavor, test, add more flavor, test. Its like cooking, a little more salt, a little more oregano, etc.

For your question on the 100% vg and adding water with pg based flavors... Here is an example for a 10ml bottle (I always work in 5 ml and 10ml because it makes the math easy). If you have a pg based flavor, you would add 8ml of your nic base (assuming its the right level nic. if you need to dilute the nic, this wont work) and then 2ml of your flavor. Thats it your done. You have a 20\80 juice carring 20% flavor.

I recommend you download the ejuice me up calc (search breaktru) and then just run a bunch of simulations without actually making the juice. If you make a mistake in your recipe, it will tell you that wont work.

Also the only reason people add water to vg is because the juice may be too thick for their hardware. Adding water will thin the juice making it more hardware friendly. By no means is water a mandatory item, and I personally like to keep the ingredients to a bare minimum.

 

[FinallyQuit]

At michaels you will probably find Wiltons and Loranns flavors. Some of them are oils, have sugars and dyes, and some of them are okay. There is a sticky above telling you which to avoid.

I also recommend a good calculator, and searching here for percentages to use certain flavors at. Your mbv flavors are 20% and down, I believe, although I never used them. Keep those batches you overflavored and cut them down, you may be able to save them.

 

[SouthernBliss]

Start the MBV closer to 12.5% and work up. I do 100% (excluding the flavorings which are PG often) all the time and I don't find I need to increase flavors more than 1 or 2 percent over what I would do with a much higher PG percentage. Adding more flavor is easier than going the other way. And don't forget that with some flavorings you will either need to speed steep or be patient while it steeps because the flavor will change and stop being perfumy.

 

[buffaloguy]

As someone who has worked for more than a year in primarialy VG juice, Kurt's reply is spot on and you cannot go wrong with it period. He and I have been in agreement on the percentages for a long time now. I keep my flavoring, water, and any other additives to a total of 20%.

Sure there will be time.more flavor will be necessary especially in multi flavor juices that might be more complex to make. However a single flavor juice start at a low percentage and add a little more till it gets to your liking. Starting off at something like 20% flavor is generally too high for most.

No disrespect to our ecf friend release the kracken but adding distilled water is not just used to thin VG juices. DW adds body to the vapor, increases vapor output, and also helps to carry the flavoring in VG far better because it can disperse easier into rhe VG.

For those that believe VG requires far more flavoring than PG juices... Ill say it again.. its a myth. The amount of flavoring needed in VG vs a comparable high PG juice is a meager 1%-2% at best.

Good luck and dont give up. As you gain experience in mixing it is very rewarding.

 

[Nate M.]

I love you guys. Thank you so much for all of the information.

I did manage to save a lot of juice. I've found that the 80%vg/5-10%dwater/10-15%flavoring has become my reference point.

I'll be receiving my pg nic soon from Wizard Labs, can't wait!

Thanks so much for the help,
Nate