New Info on Vaping

[Eskie]

This popped up tonight in the New England Journal of Medicine which is one of the leading medical journals in the world and highly respected in pretty much all medical fields. In a nutshell, people stopped smoking twice as much with e cigs than NRT. It's the first real study to address this head on. There are some accompanying editorials that still express concern on flavorings, appeal to minors, and long term use, but it's still a big deal. Already written up in the NY Times even though it literally came out tonight.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1808779

The NYT coverage is here E-Cigarettes Are Effective at Helping Smokers Quit, a Study Says

This is a pretty important event. It's not without caution, and it doesn't settle the flavoring issues, nicotine as a gateway drug (I think it's settled but not everyone agrees) and long term use issues, but it's a lot tougher to dispute the role it actually plays in combustible tobacco cessation which up until now lacked anything that points right at the issue.

 

[bombastinator]

This is the second major highly vape positive article in as many days. Why suddenly now?

 

[jtbje]

I saw that too on NYT!! Will be interesting to see how it plays out...

 

[Eskie]

This is the second major highly vape positive article in as many days. Why suddenly now?

These studies have been in the works for several years. They finished gathering data in the last year, so a few months for statistical analysis, a few months writing it, submitting to peer review which is another one or two months, revise as required, then wait in line for publication. For a journal like the New England Journal that can mean an 8 to 12 week wait or more ( published weekly so faster than the monthly journals) so in all maybe a year from completion to publication. The next year or so will see these actually getting out there. The Moffitt study wrapped up I believe about a year ago so that should be out in 2019, hopefully the first half of the year.

This stuff takes time. I'm just glad it's finally hitting and the results appear positive. Let's hope that the trend continues. One nice thing about the New England Journal and say The Lancet are they are read across medical fields, so unlike promising work that already appeared in the Annals of Internal Medicine about a year ago, this will be read by more than just internal medicine folks. That is helpful as a broader group of medical specialists get exposure to information like this.

 

[JCinFLA]

I found the following statements in the NY Times article...pretty amazing...for both what they convey and also what they don't.

"In their editorial, Drs. Borrelli and O’Connor pointed to other research on smoking cessation therapies: In one study nicotine-replacement therapy and the antidepressant buproprion (Wellbutrin) achieved slightly higher abstinence rates than did e-cigarettes in this latest trial. The prescription drug varenicline (Chantix) has performed even moderately better. Moreover, these products have been proven safe, they said."

Those 2 meds achieved "slightly higher abstinence rates" and "performed even moderately better" than did ecigarettes. Yeah, but with what known potential side effects to those who took them?

I'd love for 2 sets of known side effects to be shown...including behavioral, emotional, and mental ones experienced by (1) people using those medications to quit smoking and (2) people using ecigarettes to quit smoking. I don't recall hearing, nor reading about, anyone's ecigarette use contributing to them attempting to nor actually commiting suicide, becoming manic depressive, having very vivid nightmares and even such disturbing thoughts during the day, and many other side effects experienced by people taking those meds. I would think that the medical community would've reported them, and the anti-vaping zealots would've shouted from the rooftops about them...if they were experienced by ecigarette users.

 

[JCinFLA]

The Moffitt study wrapped up I believe about a year ago so that should be out in 2019, hopefully the first half of the year.

I took part in the beginning of the Moffitt Cancer Center's $3.6 million study. Can't wait to see the findings on it. Hopefully they'll be as encouraging as this one.

By the way - I went back and found the following info on the 1 I was involved with, and it'll be awhile before the results are known. Maybe you were aware of another one though, that was supposed to have ended about a year ago?

From interview with Thomas H. Brandon, PhD on Nov. 30, 2016 -

Thomas H. Brandon, PhD, chair of the department of health outcomes and behavior at Moffitt Cancer Center, spoke with HemOnc Today about the trial, as well as the potential implications the findings may have for cancer prevention and diagnosis.

"The grant began in April 2015. We spent the first year developing the intervention. We held focus groups and meetings with e-cigarette users, and we consulted experts as well as our own research on how to modify our existing smoking-cessation intervention for use by dual users. The clinical trial started in July. We are recruiting a sample of 2,500 dual users throughout the country. Accrual will continue through July 2017. The study will end in 2020."

 

[Eskie]

I took part in the beginning of the Moffitt Cancer Center's $3.6 million study. Can't wait to see the findings on it. Hopefully they'll be as encouraging as this one.

By the way - I went back and found the following info on the 1 I was involved with, and it'll be awhile before the results are known. Maybe you were aware of another one though, that was supposed to have ended about a year ago?

From interview with Thomas H. Brandon, PhD on Nov. 30, 2016 -

Thomas H. Brandon, PhD, chair of the department of health outcomes and behavior at Moffitt Cancer Center, spoke with HemOnc Today about the trial, as well as the potential implications the findings may have for cancer prevention and diagnosis.

"The grant began in April 2015. We spent the first year developing the intervention. We held focus groups and meetings with e-cigarette users, and we consulted experts as well as our own research on how to modify our existing smoking-cessation intervention for use by dual users. The clinical trial started in July. We are recruiting a sample of 2,500 dual users throughout the country. Accrual will continue through July 2017. The study will end in 2020."

Thanks for the update. I thought it would be sooner. Still, at least they're progressing. And 2020 isn't quite so far away. Which is sorta scary. We're already coming up on 2020, that just feels so odd to me.

 

[DeloresRose]

Anecdotal though it is, Chantix was NOT safe for my son or myself! I take issue with the idea that an antidepressant can be handed out by any doctor other than a psychiatrist, and with zero patient follow up until something goes horribly wrong.

 

[dreamvaper]

And yet they do this

 

[United States]

Thanks for this Eskie.

Sounds like things are changing for the better in terms of smoking cessation using nicotine vape devices.

I wonder how much affect the Juul and other pods have had since an older study that did not bode well for vaping.

Folks I know were successful with Welbutrin (spelling?) But Chantix caused more anxiety than the good it did for folks I know who tried it.

 

[Kickingthesticks]

Oh today I just heard a add for juul on the radio. I guess two positive things I've seen today

 

[Brewdawg1181]

edit: Whoa, that got messed up somehow. I meant to quote @JCinFLA:
Yeah, but with what known potential side effects to those who took them?

I don't recall hearing, nor reading about, anyone's ecigarette use contributing to them attempting to nor actually commiting suicide, becoming manic depressive, having very vivid nightmares and even such disturbing thoughts during the day, and many other side effects experienced by people taking those meds.

Back in the 90's, my sister "quit" with Welbutrin, and convinced me to try it. OMG!!! In the 70's, I literally did probably over 50 kinds of drugs...I mean virtually anything any of you would have heard of, and more. But NOTHING made me feel so weird as that. I thought I was losing my mind completely.

It was seriously worse than acid (which could be pretty bad sometimes for making you pray to come down!) I didn't realize at the time that it was an anti-depressant. I thought it was just a drug to make avoiding cigarettes easier. That's the one drug, out of everything I've ever done, that I absolutely would never touch, no matter how much someone paid me. It took days to get out of my system.

Oh, and she was already smoking again by the time I went to tell her how horrible it was.

 

[ScottP]

Back in the 90's, my sister "quit" with Welbutrin, and convinced me to try it. OMG!!! In the 70's, I literally did probably over 50 kinds of drugs...I mean virtually anything any of you would have heard of, and more. But NOTHING made me feel so weird as that. I thought I was losing my mind completely.

It was seriously worse than acid (which could be pretty bad sometimes for making you pray to come down!) I didn't realize at the time that it was an anti-depressant. I thought it was just a drug to make avoiding cigarettes easier. That's the one drug, out of everything I've ever done, that I absolutely would never touch, no matter how much someone paid me. It took days to get out of my system.

Oh, and she was already smoking again by the time I went to tell her how horrible it was.

Now I feel strangely compelled to try Welbutrin.

 

[Katya]

That's the one drug, out of everything I've ever done, that I absolutely would never touch, no matter how much someone paid me. It took days to get out of my system.

Let me tell you my Wellbutrin story. I quit smoking with Wellbutrin for about 4 or 5 months. It was easy. I didn't want to smoke on Wellbutrin. I didn't want to do anything, come to think of it. I just didn't care. I felt numb and stupid. My problems started when I tried to quit Wellbutrin. I turned into a raving lunatic. One night I threw a bowl of spaghetti against a kitchen wall and started sobbing uncontrollably. At 2:30 AM that night I drove to my gas station and got a pack of cigs. The first one tasted like venom and made me sick. An hour later I had another one and that felt much better. The third one--I was back to my old normal self and back to smoking 1PAD. And off of Wellbutrin forever.

 

[Katya]

Now I feel strangely compelled to try Welbutrin.

You've been warned.

 

[charlie1465]

My advice....don't take any of these modern drugs. They're just there to make money from your addiction. The drugs with a long history are safer IMO. Take a look at the recreational drugs.....they have been taken for 1000's of years.

 

[muth]

This popped up tonight in the New England Journal of Medicine which is one of the leading medical journals in the world and highly respected in pretty much all medical fields. In a nutshell, people stopped smoking twice as much with e cigs than NRT. It's the first real study to address this head on. There are some accompanying editorials that still express concern on flavorings, appeal to minors, and long term use, but it's still a big deal. Already written up in the NY Times even though it literally came out tonight.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1808779

The NYT coverage is here E-Cigarettes Are Effective at Helping Smokers Quit, a Study Says

This is a pretty important event. It's not without caution, and it doesn't settle the flavoring issues, nicotine as a gateway drug (I think it's settled but not everyone agrees) and long term use issues, but it's a lot tougher to dispute the role it actually plays in combustible tobacco cessation which up until now lacked anything that points right at the issue.

Hi Eskie. Thx for posting that. A friend of mine who is an Internist/Admin and specializes in the addictions at Boston Medical Center (BMC) called me last year and asked for information on vaping for her patients. I was astonished, to say the least. She explained that she had been collaborating with a researcher dedicated to smoking cessation and other addictions for 20 years. I was pleasantly happy with their conclusion on vaping and were going to start recommending it to their patients. TA DA !!!

 

[bombastinator]

My advice....don't take any of these modern drugs. They're just there to make money from your addiction. The drugs with a long history are safer IMO. Take a look at the recreational drugs.....they have been taken for 1000's of years.

Hoping this is sarcastic since it’s on a website that is literally about one of those modern drugs and how it’s unlike the ancient version which will kill you slowly and horribly.

 

[dreamvaper]

the thing is that ancient version might be much worse like in case of cigs vs e-cigs and it also might me much better for you like weed vs welbutrin or some other strange drug.

 

[Eskie]

Hi Eskie. Thx for posting that. A friend of mine who is an Internist/Admin and specializes in the addictions at Boston Medical Center (BMC) called me last year and asked for information on vaping for her patients. I was astonished, to say the least. She explained that she had been collaborating with a researcher dedicated to smoking cessation and other addictions for 20 years. I was pleasantly happy with their conclusion on vaping and were going to start recommending it to their patients. TA DA !!!

I've had friends in the medical field do the same thing. Last one was a friend who's a pulmonary specialist out of Harvard at one of their hospitals in Boston who was excited to have a new way to help his smokers. All of them also agreed without hesitation that nicotine wasn't their concern, cigarettes were.

Also, despite claims to the contrary about other NRT like gum and patches not being used long term, I've known more than one person who continues to use gum for more than a year. And now that it's OTC there's no medical monitoring of its use, and folks can keep buying and using it as long as they want.

There are particular people who develop terrible vascular problems from nicotine no matter how it's delivered. They also have the toughest nicotine addiction and will not stop even when they see themselves having amputations from using it. So severity of addiction varies, and it can be bad for some, not many, to use long term, but under normal circumstances I'd worry more about pollutants inhaled and chemicals in the food chain than about my nicotine use.