New to mods and looking for some general advice (and coils)

[EBates]

Welcome aboard
Always verify that your coil builds heat up from the inside out evenly. If not you have how spot(s) that will result in harsh burnt vapes.
The same is true for hot leg. This is where the attachment leads of the coil glow red.

 

[edyle]

Hi everyone

I've been interested in vaping for awhile now, and started out on some of the cheaper, "gas station" E-cigs. I've just recently started exploring mods, and I purchased a KeCig K100. (On the recommendation of an experienced vaper.) It came with two simple cartomizers, and I really enjoyed vaping with it right out of the box, using oils I purchased from Alien Vapors. After doing some research, I decided to purchase a Nimbus RDA clone. So now I need to learn to wrap coils.

I'm VERY experienced in electronics, being in the tech industry for over a decade. I'm very capable when dealing with circuits and have a strong understanding of Ohm's law and how electricity works. That being said, mechanical mods are right up my alley. I love mine already, and I've done a LOT of research, and I believe I have a fair understanding of coils and batteries. I tried wrapping my first coils last night, and I broke the first few, but the third try worked out alright. I made a dual coil setup with the 34G Kanthal wire and organic cotton I received with the Nimbus clone. I used a small watch screwdriver, and wrapped the wire 6 times. I ran the wires through the posts, tightened, and clipped the ends, and repeated with the second. I then threaded a tuft of cotton through each coil. I tried measuring the resistance with a multi-meter and was getting a few different readings, but all around 3.5-4.0 Ohms. I know that is higher than it's supposed to be, but I made sure the wires weren't touching the posts or deck, added some oil and after it soaked in, I tried it anyway. It was EXTREMELY harsh. Very little vapor, almost unusable. I used it again this morning with a fresh battery, and It was a lot better, but still a bit harsh. Using it throughout the day, it began working better and better, until later today, it started to get worse again. I noticed the cotton was a little dry, so I added some oil. Now it's like it was last night, harsh, with very little vapor. I haven't done anything except refill the oil, so why is the taste and volume of smoke changing so much? It seems I have much to learn.

Any help or tips would be great, as I am really enjoying these new toys.

Thanks!
Nik

When you buy an rba or rda, you usually need to give it an overnight soak in dishsoap to clean out any machine oil in it.
Take the screws out too, to make sure you get rid of any machine oil in the threading;
Afterwards, give it a rinse in warm or hot water to clean out the soap.

When you put your juice on dry cotton, it needs to soak in the cotton; when the cotten is a bit damp it absorbs better.

and every now and then you need to add a few drops to your wick to keep it damp enough; you get the hang of it after a while.

 

[Green Street]

Frustrating but worth the tweaking. difficult to diagnose the root problems without more detail or pics, but I'll offer my humble opinion.

I think you're using way too thin wire. 34 gauge is causing such high resistance. A key benefit of using an RDA is that you can build low ohm / sub ohm and get more vaporization of your juice.

18 mg nicotine is waaaay too high for most people when dripping. that's fine for clearomizer vaping, but when you drip 6 mg feels like 18 in a clearomizer. That might be why you're getting that harsh throat hit (probably a wicked nic buzz too).

The cotton should not look yucky and burnt. I'd change that. The cause could be you're not dripping your cotton soon enough. Drench it when you put new cotton wicks in, even puddle it up around the pan. you only get about 5 or 6 good hits until you need to drip more juice. When the cotton starts to look dry on top is when you drip again. Also when the starts tasting like dry laundry....if you keep hitting on it without dripping then you'll get nasty dry hits and then burning taste. RDA's use a lot of juice. It's the decadent side of the sport.

Is there a vape shop in your area? I'm fortunate there's some great folks in my local shop that helped me build my first coils, gave me pointers, let me sample a bunch of flavors. I promise you're not the first person to have questions and seek advice and they should be happy and patient to help.

If not, there are a lot of great videos on youtube that I find extremely helpful.

 

[bjm3992]

Welcome aboard
Always verify that your coil builds heat up from the inside out evenly. If not you have how spot(s) that will result in harsh burnt vapes.
The same is true for hot leg. This is where the attachment leads of the coil glow red.

I checked before I added the cotton, both coils heated from the middle outward, and evenly.

There ya go, between us we missed the details, but got there in the end

I've never used 34ga, 32ga is just too springy for me even after torching, so 34 must be a nightmare.

Wrapping the coils was pretty easy actually...I was surprised. It only took about 5 minutes per coil, if that. I got it on my third try. The only reason the first two didn't work out is because I broke them when trying to tighten the post.

Again, great information from all of you! I'm beginning to like this community. Thanks all!

So, some progress has been made. I do believe that 90% of my problems have come from the incorrect alignment of the air-holes! I've been playing and making minor changes, and I've been vaping non-stop all day with maybe 2-3 harsh hits. I've learned the correct amounts of oil to drip, I think I was over-saturating the coils. I also believe I've honed in on the air-hole position for best vapor production and smoothest hits. I've also figured my coil resistance, and over-all, I am around 2.0 ohms, with the same dual coil setup I started this thread with.

Here's some pictures... (I know the pictures are bad, sorry)

 

[Warpigs]

I started out with and still use to this day 1 Your Online Electronic Cigarette Store. 5 AW 18650 Protected 3100 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Battery - AltSmoke. 5 EH IMR 18650, 30amp, 1600mAh, Flat Top. 20 Smok Tech Replacement Bottom Coils. 10 PBC TANK. 1 TrustFire TR-001 Lithium Ion Battery Charger, Black. And my all day vapes are $3.58 Hangsen E-liquid for Electronic Cigarettes (30ml) - Ruyan 4 flavor / 24mg/ml nicotine at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping. And Blue Moon Ice Cream - Killer Juice.


Just an example were I started and still use.

 

[The Ocelot]

Ah well in that case - I'll post it.

View attachment 395228

Lol! I thought you were referring to my cartoon. Someday when I have less Real Life stuff going on I will finish the series.

Thank you to all who have offered me ways to remember thinner wire/higher resistance. I do understand the theory, it's just that it seems counterintuitive to my mind. So do fish.

 

[InTheShade]

Lol! I thought you were referring to my cartoon. Someday when I have less Real Life stuff going on I will finish the series.

Well I know it's not your cartoon really, but I saw it for the first time when you posted it. I enjoy it, it makes me laugh.

As for your cartoon, I am not quite sure what is going on. In my mind I see evil kitty in jail and the good kitty is smuggling in a file in a balloon (inside its stomach, obviously) for the evil kitty to use to escape.

As we cut to the action, the good kitty is regurgitating the balloon with the file (like a big old furball) for the evil kitty to use.

Good kitty has a nice tail and markings like a Phidias mod.

Evil kitty has impeccable teeth shaped like batman logos.

I know I am close with this...

I think I would like to see more of this cartoon.

Sorry for the thread hijack OP, normal service will be resumed shortly.

 

[The Ocelot]

Well I know it's not your cartoon really, but I saw it for the first time when you posted it. I enjoy it, it makes me laugh.

As for your cartoon, I am not quite sure what is going on. In my mind I see evil kitty in jail and the good kitty is smuggling in a file in a balloon (inside its stomach, obviously) for the evil kitty to use to escape.

As we cut to the action, the good kitty is regurgitating the balloon with the file (like a big old furball) for the evil kitty to use.

Good kitty has a nice tail and markings like a Phidias mod.

Evil kitty has impeccable teeth shaped like batman logos.

I know I am close with this...

I think I would like to see more of this cartoon.

Sorry for the thread hijack OP, normal service will be resumed shortly.

Oh my, your mind is quite creative! This is only one frame from the series, but I didn't think it needed an explanation on the forum. (In the series there are clear descriptions of what is represented and what is occurring.)

The spotted kitty is blowing up a balloon with a straw. The kitty's breath is voltage. The air inside of the straw is current. The balloon represents watts. As Psycho Kitty's paw squeezes the straw it creates resistance. In the actual frame in the series, instead of "Mew" he says "Ω." In another panel, Psycho Kitty squeezes tighter and the spotted kitty's cheeks puff out, so she can produce enough volts to keep the balloon from deflating.

The tighter the squeeze the higher the resistance and the more (higher) volts are needed to keep the balloon the same size (watts). Does it make sense now? (Or do you already know and just pulling my tail?)

 

[IXIShogunR1]

The cotton is very dark under the coils, and the coils are turning black, but the rest of the cotton is fine, and it doesn't taste like burnt cotton. (I learned what that tasted like when I first started all this)

I meant 3-4 Ohms, not .03-.04. That's according to my multimeter I use for my electronics work, so I don't know if it's getting a correct reading or not. Also, I don't know if I'm measuring from the right point... where exactly should I be touching on the atomizer to measure the resistance? I think I have been measuring the over-all resistance of the atomizer, not of each coil.

It's a dual coil setup, I wrapped each coil 6 times over a 2mm screwdriver. I dry-fired them once or twice and they heated evenly, so I tried it out. It's still working okay.... sometimes it's a little harsh, sometimes not, but the clouds vary, but over-all, not getting a ton of vapor.

I don't have a preference, if you have a recommendation, this dual coil setup is just what I decided to try first after doing some research. As I said...any advice is welcome!

so at 34g and 6 wraps on a dual coil setup should put you at around 1.7-1.8 ohms. that setup there is only going to need about 9 watts to hit the theoretical sweet spot.

my suggestion to you would be to get some 26-28ga wire. idk how you really wanna set this up and what your after.
on my mechs when i have an RDA i prefer around .3-.4 ohms which is 6-7 wraps each coil with 26ga
9-10 wraps will get you in the .5-.6 range

use the steam engine Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
plug in the numbers and see what you get that way

basicly just gotta figure out what kind of vape your after.... and the hardness you can lower the nic a little and try that.. i drip 2.4nic from time to time and the first hit or 2 can be really harsh

measuring ohms i have one of those atty ohm measures instead of a multi meter.... but if memory serves me right, its + on the center contact post on the bottom and - on the treads..... (the part that connects to the mod)

so lets go from this point and see if we can get you figured out

 

[super_X_drifter]

Here's some solid advice regarding battery and build safety:




http://youtu.be/QQbWVHSiltQ

And here is a Tutorial on using a digital Multimeter to check voltages and resistances of your builds:


http://youtu.be/69GFyPbcCOk

 

[Kaezziel]

Dammit! Super_X is in the newbie section.... y'all done pulled out the big guns now...

That's some good advice/links.... listen to the man.

 

[bjm3992]

so at 34g and 6 wraps on a dual coil setup should put you at around 1.7-1.8 ohms. that setup there is only going to need about 9 watts to hit the theoretical sweet spot.

my suggestion to you would be to get some 26-28ga wire. idk how you really wanna set this up and what your after.
on my mechs when i have an RDA i prefer around .3-.4 ohms which is 6-7 wraps each coil with 26ga
9-10 wraps will get you in the .5-.6 range

use the steam engine Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
plug in the numbers and see what you get that way

basicly just gotta figure out what kind of vape your after.... and the hardness you can lower the nic a little and try that.. i drip 2.4nic from time to time and the first hit or 2 can be really harsh

measuring ohms i have one of those atty ohm measures instead of a multi meter.... but if memory serves me right, its + on the center contact post on the bottom and - on the treads..... (the part that connects to the mod)

so lets go from this point and see if we can get you figured out

As I said previously, I'm not really sure what I'm after exactly, because I don't really know what builds are better than others. The reason I chose the dual coil design, is because I assumed more surface area (two coils instead of one) meant more vapor. It's been working pretty well for the past two days, after my initial errors. I suppose what I am after is whatever setup will give me the most vapor with the least harshness.

I don't have a problem going down to a lower nic content, but as a christmas gift, someone has already purchased me a 30mL bottle of oil in 1.8mg...

Also, my girlfriend is joining me in this venture soon, and she's a heavy smoker looking to switch completely, but she needs the higher nic content to feel satisfied enough to keep her away from real smokes. I quit a few weeks ago when I first got my mod, and haven't had one since, but I've never had much trouble quitting. So any advice on keeping it smooth, is especially welcome, so I can pass it along to her when she gets started.

I've purchased a new battery:UltraFire 18650 Battery - Alien Vapor
* Capacity: 3000mAh
* Voltage: 3.7V
* weight: 39g
* Size:18 x 65mm

My current battery is 4.2V...will I notice much difference between that and 3.7V?

So I guess the bottom line is, what kind of setup will be fairly easy to build (The dual coil was pretty easy), produce a lot of vapor, while maintaining smoothness?

 

[Kaezziel]

Both of those batteries are 4.2V... that is what they are at full charge, fresh off the charger... that being said, I personally suggest never purchasing a battery with the word "Fire" in it... just bad juju
(These are good batteries: Xtar 30A

As far as easy build, good vapor, smooth vape... single or dual coil, large ID (2.5 to 3mm), around 0.75 - 1.25 ohms... drop the nic level (just get some VG from Walmart and mix it in 50/50) That'll cut your juice from 18mg to 9mg nic, and it'll raise your VG ratio which will smooth things out a bit as well...

 

[edyle]

I've purchased a new battery:UltraFire 18650 Battery - Alien Vapor
* Capacity: 3000mAh
* Voltage: 3.7V
* weight: 39g
* Size:18 x 65mm

Use "IMR" type batteries for vaping; they are safe chemistry batteries.

Do not use "protected" batteries; 'protected' batteries are unsafe chemistry batteries, which is why they are sold with 'protection'.

 

[edyle]

As I said previously, I'm not really sure what I'm after exactly, because I don't really know what builds are better than others. The reason I chose the dual coil design, is because I assumed more surface area (two coils instead of one) meant more vapor. It's been working pretty well for the past two days, after my initial errors. I suppose what I am after is whatever setup will give me the most vapor with the least harshness.

You'll learn better by starting with 1 coil;

then you wouldn't be questioning whether you're measuring the resistance of 1 coil or the entire atomizer.

 

[bjm3992]

Both of those batteries are 4.2V... that is what they are at full charge, fresh off the charger... that being said, I personally suggest never purchasing a battery with the word "Fire" in it... just bad juju
(These are good batteries: Xtar 30A

As far as easy build, good vapor, smooth vape... single or dual coil, large ID (2.5 to 3mm), around 0.75 - 1.25 ohms... drop the nic level (just get some VG from Walmart and mix it in 50/50) That'll cut your juice from 18mg to 9mg nic, and it'll raise your VG ratio which will smooth things out a bit as well...

Haha, that's a good point. I will definitely check out those cells when I get some more extra cash. Thanks!

Use "IMR" type batteries for vaping; they are safe chemistry batteries.

Do not use "protected" batteries; 'protected' batteries are unsafe chemistry batteries, which is why they are sold with 'protection'.

I just bought that battery because it was the only one that I saw on the site I get my oil from, so I thought I'd try it. Thanks for the info though!

You'll learn better by starting with 1 coil;

then you wouldn't be questioning whether you're measuring the resistance of 1 coil or the entire atomizer.

That's probably something I should have considered in the beginning, lol. It seems to me this dual coil I setup I built is actually working pretty well (given the circumstances) now that I've worked out the kinks, like air-hole positioning!

 

[BrushyHillGuide]

Lots of great info already posted. I would strongly encourage you to either find some reviews with builds for your atty OR go buy a atty (even a clone) that has loads of reviews and builds on YouTube. Start there. Mimic builds you find there and use the steam engine calculator to predict resistance or help you design a coil build to a specific resistance. If you pick popular reviewers it's like getting into the pool in the shallow end - you can venture into deeper water once you get experience. You'll avoid some of those harsh experiences you've been having. Using those builds as tutorials makes it FUN and easy to build and enjoy rebuildables, right away.

Considering your claim that you're very experienced with electronics its a little concerning to read what looks like dismissive attitude about battery safety. Flavor and clouds are great but you BETTER take the battery safety seriously. Some of your statements really show a lack of understanding of some of the basics of rebuilding. That's not meant as a slam - it's genuine concern. Don't let your "experience" lull you into complacency. Battery safety is no joke and you'll learn the art of coil building and wicking a whole lot faster if you start at the beginning and don't try diving off into the deep end and relying to much on similar but not specific "experience" in the area of vaping.

Good luck and vape safe!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kaezziel]

That's a good point, Brushy! I've been an electronics technician for 20 years, myself... but I quickly found out that we are dealing with stuff here that I never really had to worry about in my day-to-day job... batteries being a particular part of that... in no part of my job am I intentionally shorting out a battery to heat up a piece of wire...... in a very short period of time here, I realized that I was using the wrong battery for my application and picked up some decent batteries (VTCs at the time)... One should never assume that just because they have experience in a similar field that EVERYTHING will cross over... you still need to apply the basics of electronics and use the wisdom that one can gather here to keep everything on the level...

 

[bjm3992]

Lots of great info already posted. I would strongly encourage you to either find some reviews with builds for your atty OR go buy a atty (even a clone) that has loads of reviews and builds on YouTube. Start there. Mimic builds you find there and use the steam engine calculator to predict resistance or help you design a coil build to a specific resistance. If you pick popular reviewers it's like getting into the pool in the shallow end - you can venture into deeper water once you get experience. You'll avoid some of those harsh experiences you've been having. Using those builds as tutorials makes it FUN and easy to build and enjoy rebuildables, right away.

Considering your claim that you're very experienced with electronics its a little concerning to read what looks like dismissive attitude about battery safety. Flavor and clouds are great but you BETTER take the battery safety seriously. Some of your statements really show a lack of understanding of some of the basics of rebuilding. That's not meant as a slam - it's genuine concern. Don't let your "experience" lull you into complacency. Battery safety is no joke and you'll learn the art of coil building and wicking a whole lot faster if you start at the beginning and don't try diving off into the deep end and relying to much on similar but not specific "experience" in the area of vaping.

Good luck and vape safe!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I appreciate the concern, but my attitude towards battery safety is anything but dismissive, or complacent...battery safety just wasn't what I was seeking information on. I'm well aware of the risks. Rather than being dismissive, it's more of a "I don't have the money for another battery right now" attitude. So, I make due with what I've got for now. I am aware of the issues. The information I was looking for was concerning clouds and flavor, not batteries, because I didn't have any other batteries. As for just "buying an atty that has good reviews"... I don't have money to go out and just buy something if what I have isn't good enough. I was looking for information with what I already have to work with.

Also, just thought I'd mention, that my dual coil setup was built following a guide, which also happened to be for the exact atty I bought.

I am having fun, and I'm a "jump off the deep end" kind of guy anyway. Best way to learn is to create a need to learn (for me anyway), and I don't mind the harsh experiences. Bad experiences come with learning anything new. I've actually learned quite a lot in just a few days, and my K100 is working great now, thanks to a few of the posts in this thread.

I have never assumed any experience would carry over, except the experience that DOES carry over, such as Ohm's law, resistance, and how the coil wraps increase/decrease resistance.

Thanks to everyone for all the help

 

[IXIShogunR1]

well i tried looking up the amp rating for the battery you have and i can't find anything about, so i dont even know what to suggest for you
your 34g wire is a bit tricky too... being so thin it heats up fast with more power

just from looking at stuff with steam coil builder, a good place for you to start would be a 1.8 ohm dual coil setup for 34g wire

i normally use 26-28ga for my builds so im not too familiar with thinner wire for coils