Newer tech much harsher on nicotine delivery?

[Cicatrize]

I started vaping in July, 2009, so I've been doing this for almost 6 years. I've had the pleasure of watching the tech go from 501/801/901, 510, "Janty Stick", the screwdriver, eGo, etc, all the way to now, where we have 100w+ devices and sub-ohm coils that just rip through juice, albeit much more efficiently. I originally started at 18-24mg juice and have worked my way down to 12mg. I haven't been too good at keeping up with the times, since I quickly find something that I like and stick with it for a while until something else meets my needs a little better, so my knowledge might be a little less than your average 5+ year vaper.

Ever since the ProTank came out, I feel like the nicotine delivery is getting harsher with each new atomizer design. I had the ProTank 1, 2 and 3, and recently upgraded to a SubTank Mini (which itself is somewhat of a misnomer as "mini", lol). My primary mod is the iStick 20w, which I run at 15w with the subtank mini (1.2ohm coil, since the 20w iStick can't do sub-ohm). GREAT vape, but occasionally I get a nasty throat hit that makes me cough, and sometimes it actually hurts it's so bad. I don't understand why, since I see my vaping peers in my local shop hitting sub-ohm coils at 30w all day long with no issues.

Is 12mg considered high nic now? I'm a mouth-to-lung vaper, and I've noticed that the more closed the airflow is, the harsher the throat hit is, so I've actually opened up my subtank to the 2-hole flow, which for me is too airy, as I'd prefer something slightly more open than the fully closed position, but less than the 1 hole, but I just can't do it.

 

[440BB]

I found the same increased harshness with the Protank and every subsequent bottom coil device I've tried. I don't want to give up the flavor and smoothness that I found with earlier devices, but vapor volume and sub ohm high power vaping are the current trend that gets buyers to keep buying another setup. I found throat hit to just be irritation early on, and like you, stuck to what works for me.

Finding the setup that meets your needs and sticking with it is logical, but difficult in an environment that is constantly replacing one model with another. It is also less profitable for suppliers, whose successful marketing creates the perception that what is new is inherently better. Stocking up on what works well for you is almost mandatory, before it is discontinued.

Not all of us are tolerant of the harshness that many newer devices have introduced. It may be necessary to adjust your vaping style to match your newer setup, if you are willing to do so. Shorter draws and possibly not inhaling might help. Good luck finding that consistent tasty sweet spot!

 

[Cicatrize]

Thanks for the post. My problem is that I actually really enjoy these bottom fed coils, and I really love the new mod tech. I think the subtank mini has the best flavor of any device I've used in the past 3 years or so. I get almost two days battery life with my iStick and I chain vape. Having doing this for so long, that's really impressive to me. I remember when I'd have to charge my 510 batteries every couple hours and keep spares on me. The main thing I want to know is what kind of nic levels are people using nowadays with these new devices? Is 12mg considered a lot?

 

[DavidOck]

While it's often said that when sub-ohming you should reduce the nic level, since you tend to get so much more volume per draw, the IStick20 uses mean voltage regulation, not RMS, and can not provide anything lower than the battery voltage. Due to the mean regulation, at low power levels it will run hot. Maybe very or too hot for a particular flavor. I find I need to set it a full 2 watts lower than different batteries, with the same topper and same juice.

That said, I run the same level nic in it as in all my other toppers (18) - just have to crank it way down to taste, not number.

 

[Cicatrize]

Yeah, I noticed that the first day with my iStick 20W. I used 8.5W on my ProTank 3 and had to dial that down to 7.6W on the iStick, lol. Did they fix that with the 30W and 50W versions?

 

[DavidOck]

I've heard they have, but don't know. We can only hope they figured out RMS is the way to regulate!

But the step-down depends on the chip set, so I don't think that's changed.

 

[Cicatrize]

I've heard they have, but don't know. We can only hope they figured out RMS is the way to regulate!

But the step-down depends on the chip set, so I don't think that's changed.

I read the chipset is new for the 30 and 50W, but haven't really heard any proof from other vapers.

 

[readeuler]

I read that for the 30w, they did fix it to RMS (still off by 5-10% if I recall, but nowhere near as bad as before). I don't know that anyone with enough tech skills has their hands on the 50W yet.

All that said, apparently yes, 12mg is considered high for high wattage devices. I think in your case, the lack of airflow is an issue. Mouth-to-lung just doesn't provide enough airflow, in my experience, to introduce enough fresh air to keep things smooth and cool.

But I'm vaping 15mg/ml in a super airy dripper at 45 watts, so I'm probably not the person to ask

 

[tj99959]

After smoking for almost 60 years direct lung hits are not an option for me. @ 74 years old I guess I lack the lung capacity of a 20 year old kid.

So while I've tried most of the newer tech. toppers their just to airy to be a good vape with my limited lung capacity.
I mix my unflavored base at 12mg/ml, but when I add flavoring that knocks it down to about 10mg/ml.

Mouth to lung requires a stiffer draw to be any good, and that means less liquid to go with the less air. Less liquid & less air requires less power. So with mouth to lung .... less becomes more.

For mouth to lung vapors the Kayfun is a better option than these new sub ohm tanks. With my KF (1.25 ohm coil) I use the Evolv Kick-2 because it has true DC step down, and it's set at 8 watts (3.16v) Devices like the Istick can't do that, it would need to be recharged before it ever got down to my desired voltage.

IMO there is no right or wrong with vaping. Someone can say what works for them, but that has no bearing on what will work best for you.
Way I look at it is, my old carto tanks satisfied me just fine 4 years ago .... so why wouldn't they be just as satisfying now. Those old Camels stayed the same for 60 years, which makes it kinda silly to think that a vape has to be changed out with some new type of topper every month.

 

[Cicatrize]

I went to my local vapor shop on lunch and talked to the guys there about it, whose styles are all sub-ohm and high wattage, of course. They said as a general rule, people will cut their nic level in half for that kind of vaping, so I picked up some 6mg liquid and I'll see how it goes. They were all pretty surprised I was using 12mg, lol.

Bummer they didn't have the 30w iStick in stock. After some more research, I think I may pick one up. I don't really need the extra wattage, but given how common the sub-ohm coils are (subtank comes with 1, plus an RBA that's reading 0.7ohm), I'd like a device that can use them.

 

[Cicatrize]

IMO there is no right or wrong with vaping. Someone can say what works for them, but that has no bearing on what will work best for you.
Way I look at it is, my old carto tanks satisfied me just fine 4 years ago .... so why wouldn't they be just as satisfying now. Those old Camels stayed the same for 60 years, which makes it kinda silly to think that a vape has to be changed out with some new type of topper every month.

My old carto tanks satisfied me too 4 years ago, and so did the 510. The problem back then was that I always felt there was something...missing. It just wasn't everything I wanted. The draw wasn't exactly what I liked, they had to be filled frequently, the flavor always left something to be desired, and the battery life was nothing short of abysmal. Fast forward a few years, and now we have all this wonderful tech. Instead of wondering if there's a product out there that's better, we're left looking for devices that just provide a little something different instead, and perhaps a little customizable. I kinda like that, even though it takes me a while to catch on.

 

[USMCotaku]

I started vaping in July, 2009, so I've been doing this for almost 6 years. I've had the pleasure of watching the tech go from 501/801/901, 510, "Janty Stick", the screwdriver, eGo, etc, all the way to now, where we have 100w+ devices and sub-ohm coils that just rip through juice, albeit much more efficiently. I originally started at 18-24mg juice and have worked my way down to 12mg. I haven't been too good at keeping up with the times, since I quickly find something that I like and stick with it for a while until something else meets my needs a little better, so my knowledge might be a little less than your average 5+ year vaper.

Ever since the ProTank came out, I feel like the nicotine delivery is getting harsher with each new atomizer design. I had the ProTank 1, 2 and 3, and recently upgraded to a SubTank Mini (which itself is somewhat of a misnomer as "mini", lol). My primary mod is the iStick 20w, which I run at 15w with the subtank mini (1.2ohm coil, since the 20w iStick can't do sub-ohm). GREAT vape, but occasionally I get a nasty throat hit that makes me cough, and sometimes it actually hurts it's so bad. I don't understand why, since I see my vaping peers in my local shop hitting sub-ohm coils at 30w all day long with no issues.

Is 12mg considered high nic now? I'm a mouth-to-lung vaper, and I've noticed that the more closed the airflow is, the harsher the throat hit is, so I've actually opened up my subtank to the 2-hole flow, which for me is too airy, as I'd prefer something slightly more open than the fully closed position, but less than the 1 hole, but I just can't do it.

The issue stems from the sub tank producing so much vapor, you need to look at it like a dripper as far as Nic levels are concerned. 12mg is double what I use in mine, and I was using 21mg on my aerotanks. Those guys at the shops blowing huge clouds out of sub ohm rigs aren't using 12mg..... Many are using 3mg, 6 tops

 

[BoomerFZ1]

eLeaf has resolved the issue. I run my iStick 30w at the same wattage as my IPV Mini and other mods while my 20w still stays a watt lower on average. And I think you're absolutely right...I have some 12mg juices that are just too harsh on anything but my Nautilus or Genitank. If I'm using an RTA I use a 6mg juice and I never build below 1 ohm. It's just too harsh a hit with 12 (which is considered the equivalent to a "light" cig).

 

[billybc96]

I haven't sub ohm'd, yet, but my experience with 1.6 ohm Nautilus BVCs and a Kayfun Lite Plus (built close to 1 ohm) clearly indicates you'll get more throat hit as the resistance goes down. My next tank (on order) is a Kanger Subtank Mini, with 1.2 ohm replacement heads. For using that on my iStick 30, I just ordered some 6mg non-PG juice (Mythos Athena Dessert Tobacco). Previously, I typically used 12mg of nicotine (stepping down over time from about 18mg nicotine strength originally), but had good success using 6mg on higher performance equipment. Before that, the best I could do was mix 6mg and 12mg juices to get a happy medium that gave me decent throat hit on a typical near 2 ohm type clearomizer. A 6mg nicotine level should be good for you at 1.2 ohms, but at 0.5 ohms I would definitely try taking the nicotine down to 3mg, or even mix 0mg with 3mg to get 1.5mg. Yes, if you are sub ohm'ing, and not a total nicotine fiend, you may need to go down that low! But that's a good thing, right? For the 1.2 ohm Subtank Mini, 6mg may be too much nicotine for me, but I am a mouth-to-lung guy, not a lung hit guy, so it should be close to about right. When I'm ready to drop down in nicotine level, which I've been doing for years now, 3mg will probably be just fine. I hope.

 

[e-pipeman]

Have you tried using a Nautilus Mini with BVC coils (1.8 ohm) on your iStick? I'm using one on my 20w istick and it's great - at 4.5 watts/3 volts. Sounds too low but it vapes like a charm for me. Might be worth trying this before splashing out on a 30w istick.

 

[DavidAmonettNashville]

I had to drop my nicotine from 24 to 18 when I started using the Aspire nautilus with the BVC coils....Then I had to drop it again when I got the Atlantis...Down to 6mg. But due to the sheer volume of extra vapor I dont feel that I've "Truly" reduced my Nic intake. YMMV , Dave

 

[billybc96]

I had to drop my nicotine from 24 to 18 when I started using the Aspire nautilus with the BVC coils....Then I had to drop it again when I got the Atlantis...Down to 6mg. But due to the sheer volume of extra vapor I dont feel that I've "Truly" reduced my Nic intake. YMMV , Dave

Exactly. That's why I still want to go down to 3mg nicotine strength, even after going to 6mg juice using a 1.2 ohm Subtank.

 

[USMCotaku]

Have you tried using a Nautilus Mini with BVC coils (1.8 ohm) on your iStick? I'm using one on my 20w istick and it's great - at 4.5 watts/3 volts. Sounds too low but it vapes like a charm for me. Might be worth trying this before splashing out on a 30w istick.

The thing about the istick 20w is it can't actually output that low of voltage. Do a test, starting out at that setting, slowly bump up, it will have the same output until you reach around 4.1 volts (on full battery), then it will start heating up

 

[crxess]

The newer, or actually what you mean is BETTER equipment is NOT making the Nicotine Harsher.
What the better tanks are doing is increasing the amount of e-liquid being Vaporized in a single draw.
The more e-liquid Vaporized, the More Nicotine hitting you. This and this alone is the reason People have no problem reducing Nicotine strength vaping on Low Ohm or High performance gear.

Example:
My Kanger T3-mini 1.7Ml with a 1.8 ohm coil will last about 2 hours relaxed vaping.
My Orchid Mini, dual coil .3ohm 2ml tank will empty in 15 minutes.
Roughly the same amount of e-liquid delivered in 1/8th the time.

 

[James Wilson]

On my aerotank mini I have been using between 18mg and 36mg. I got a bunch of 12mg nic ordered though to go along with my new subtank I got coming. I was planning on dropping anyways. I got mixed opinions from people on if I should go lower on nic or not for it. So I just went with what I was going to step down with anyways. If it doesn't work well, well then next time when i run low on juice I will go lower on nic.