Nic strength and exhale method: a word of caution

[TheBhikkhu]

I am posting this experience in hopes it will help other people. I am an avid happy vaper. I started on an ego and pro tank. Now I am into mods and RBAs.

Prior to to quitting smoking, I was a two pack a day smoker. I also had high blood pressure because of smoking. Anyways, when I quit, I used 24mg liquid because I was such a heavy smoker. I found that, that wasn't quite working so I started changing my exhale method to exhaling through my nose. With in a week, I developed unusual cardiac issues that were new. My blood pressure dropped to 90/60 which actually isn't a bad thing but my body didn't tolerate it well. I also developed an arrhythmia and chest pains. I sought medical attention and my doctor dismissed it as nothing harmful. And it wasn't harmful per se at all. Many people have that low of blood pressure and benign arrhythmias. It's especially common in athletes. However, the symptoms were alarming because of my family cardiac history and uncomfortable. I had really bad headaches, fainting, dizziness and fatigue.

I did a little research myself and came up with that I was somehow getting too much nicotine. I attributed this to the strength and my exhale style. You obviously absorb things faster through the mucus membranes of your nose. When I was a smoker I never exhaled that away. So I stopped exhaling through my nose and dropped to 16mg. The problem went away over night and hasn't returned since. My blood pressure is textbook perfect at 110/70. I go to the gym 3 times a week and I feel absolutely wonderful. Something I could have never done while I was a smoker.

I am posting this in hopes that other people experiencing and possibly frightened by the same symptoms will relax, make the same adjustments and not give up on vaping. Many doctors aren't up to speed on vaping at all so physician assistance may not always been helpful like it wasn't in my case. Although, I did get a literal standing ovation from my doctor when I told him I quit smoking. The moral of this story is when in doubt, drop your nic strength and/or change your draw and exhale. Together, we can keep each other healthy and smoke free by communicating our experiences.


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[TheBhikkhu]

I should have probably also added that if you have cardiac symptoms, always seek professional advice. The heart is nothing to play with. While my symptoms were related to vaping, yours actually may not be and require medical attention. There are several types of arrhythmias and causes for the symptoms that I mentioned. Some benign, some not. Always get it checked out by a medical professional.


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[ativ]

I've been buying 0mg of nic in my juice to avoid the nic od symptoms. This way I can vape all day and when I need a good nic hit I grab a fully loaded tank.

Thanks for the warning, your sending a good message.

 

[Deeo]

I love the throat hit I get from ecigs therefore I drag it like a cigarette but when I feel I need a nic rush I vape with blowing it out my nose. which isn't that often as I don't get cravings too often. Thanks for sharing this.

 

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Thank you for the heads up. I agree that any physical maladies need to be checked out by a doctor. If you are in discomfort, you should have it checked out.

 

[BigEgo]

I find it hard to believe that your "exhale method" has anything to do with any sort of cardiac arrhythmia. How do you know you have cardiac issues? If your doctor (who is the only person qualified to diagnose it) says your heart was fine then what makes you think you had an arrhythmia? An EKG would quickly show whether you had an arrhythmia or not.

I have issues with chest pains. I have been to the ER a number of times for it, only to find out (after a battery of tests) that there is absolutely nothing wrong with my heart. The diagnosis? Severe anxiety attacks. Point is, there are lots of things that can be responsible for chest pains, and not all of them are serious (though I do agree you should always seek help if you have chest pains, especially severe ones).

Though I will agree that nicotine dosing is still a problem for us e-cig users. It's impossible to really tell how much we are absorbing and AFAIK there have been no studies done on it. A fatal dose is around 60mg for an adult human. However, this has to be ingested pretty much all at once (which would be quite hard to do by vaping or smoking). There have been a few cases of deaths from nic OD from tobacco. According to Wikipedia, two brothers died after smoking "17 and 18" pipes full of tobacco. I read somewhere else that a man died after smoking like 7 packs of cigarettes over a few hour period. Thus, I guess it's possible to suffer serious effects from inhaling nicotine. However, it seems it would take someone almost trying to OD in order for there to by any serious consequences (in an otherwise healthy person).

 

[AgentAnia]

.... A fatal dose is around 60mg for an adult human. However, this has to be ingested pretty much all at once (which would be quite hard to do by vaping or smoking). There have been a few cases of deaths from nic OD from tobacco. According to Wikipedia, two brothers died after smoking "17 and 18" pipes full of tobacco. I read somewhere else that a man died after smoking like 7 packs of cigarettes over a few hour period. Thus, I guess it's possible to suffer serious effects from inhaling nicotine. However, it seems it would take someone almost trying to OD in order for there to by any serious consequences (in an otherwise healthy person).

The 60mg fatal dose has been questioned and pretty much debunked. Please see: Nicotine lethal dose in humans: a common argument by regulatory authorities, based on poor science

 

[aikanae1]

I also experienced a blood pressure drop, 80/60 (if I remember right) I was in the ER for unrelated reasons (knee problem) but the staff seemed concerned it wouldn't rise. They gave me 5 liters of fluid and it finally rose. I was dehydrated. I hadn't increased my water intake at all from smoking -> vaping.

 

[roadkill46]

many, many moons ago, when this forum first started, i was a lurker prior to joining and then joined later. i was on the first 510's that came out. no mods were out then and folks were just starting to build them...aka Batleby, Chuck, etc. I had had some DVT's that were being treated with blood thinners and they dissolved and disappeared but will be on coumadin for life.
anyway, long story short....i had a HA in 2005!

I thought immediately it was from vaping, i usually was using 70/30 or 100% PG at 24mg. after my 5 day hospital visit, every test in the book including a cardiac cath that showed nothing...no plaque...no heart damage, etc (we work at the the only hospital in town and the cardiac doc is a bud of my wife's and she made him look longer than usual) nothing!

put me on some drugs (coreg) that makes your heart beat more efficiently, but i was scared so i went back to cigs. they finally found out that somehow, they still don't know how, a piece of the clot got into the artery and went to my heart instead of the normal vein travel which would have resulted in a PE, not an HA. doc said they still don't know too much about the vein/artery barrier and things can cross even if there is a pin hole in either one.

anyway, i've been vaping going on 90 days, banner is wrong since i forgot the exact date, and it feels totally different than when i first started. i think that vaping being so experimental back then...MAY have had something to do with it, then i dismiss that thought, but it does stay in the back of your mind.

but i feel 100% better, can smell again, taste again, etc. could not believe how bad my house smelled after about a week...smoking, 2 dogs, 3 grandkids, etc. went through keeping all the windows open and a case of fabreeze to finally get the smell gone!

so there is my story, don't know what you will get out of it, but i now use an MVP and Kanger T3 tanks and 24mg RY4 from my B&M is my go to and have had no problems.

 

[FireDragon1138]

I am surprised 24mg or higher is recommended so often. I would feel ill vaping at that level.

It seems to me some amount of withdrawl is inevitable going from tobacco to nicotine. People are missing the alkaloids in tobacco and they think increasing the nicotine will compensate for that, but it really won't completely. All it will do is cause anxiety and other problems.

I get panic attacks and find pure nicotine can sometimes trigger them, or at least it doesn't work as well as whole tobacco at easing them.

 

[roadkill46]

it's the SSRI's in cigs and other chems that the brain has gotten used to having while on stinks. vape does not provide that, just affects your nicotine receptors so until you are off awhile, you get not as much dopamine released. at least that is what my doc told me.

 

[BigEgo]

it's the SSRI's in cigs and other chems that the brain has gotten used to having while on stinks. vape does not provide that, just affects your nicotine receptors so until you are off awhile, you get not as much dopamine released. at least that is what my doc told me.

There's no SSRI's in cigs, though there is a mild MAOI effect. MAOI's primarily work on monoamine and not serotonin. Here is an interesting study that explains why cigarettes (though not necessarily nicotine) is so addictive:

The massive health problem associated with cigarette smoking is exacerbated by the addictive properties of tobacco smoke and the limited success of current approaches to cessation of smoking. Yet little is known about the neuropharmacological actions of cigarette smoke that contribute to smoking behaviour, or why smoking is so prevalent in psychiatric disorders and is associated with a decreased risk of Parkinson's disease. Here we report that brains of living smokers show a 40% decrease in the level of monoamine oxidase B relative to non-smokers or former smokers. MAO B is involved in the breakdown of dopamine, a neurotransmitter implicated in reinforcing and motivating behaviours as well as movement. MAO B inhibition is therefore associated with enhanced activity of dopamine, as well as with decreased production of hydrogen peroxide, a source of reactive oxygen species5. We propose that reduction of MAO B activity may synergize with nicotine to produce the diverse behavioural and epidemiological effects of smoking.

Inhibition of monoamine oxidase B in the brains of smokers

I have noticed that ever since I started vaping I do not have those severe cravings anymore. Sure, I still use my e-cig all throughout the day, but the cravings are nowhere near what they were when I smoked. If I went without an analog for an hour, I went crazy. Not really the case with e-cigs. The MAOI effect of tobacco leaves might explain this.

 

[SamNapolitanke]

I started at 24, went down to 18 then 12 and I am now at 6 or 0... listen to your body people. it's not that hard.

 

[roadkill46]

my bad, i'm on an SSRI, so i got them confused. I'm 21 years retired, 100% disabled vet, can still work, but have a serious case of PTSD and chronic panic/anxiety disorder. doc has me on 1mg Xanax 3 times a day prophylaxis so i don't get them. if i vape too much i do get the shakes just like too much caffeine. no tinnitus, no other issues, pulse goes a little higher but did with cigs also.

secret like everyone says is to find the right dosage and inhale method and stick with it. i'm at a 24mg and BP is down at last MD check, so he may take me off my BP meds, wait and see. just another pill the VA pushes on you instead of actually finding out the problem like my civilian PCP (who vapes 6mg BTW) he's a Veteran also.

chest pain, any type, from 'tall person syndrome' where your intercostal muscles get more pressure on them, to indigestion, to a cracked rib, to an HA. I count mine as my term 'nic anxiety' and put the PV down for awhile. i also vape 70/30 pg since i like the flavor over vapor production.
i do agree that the mucos membranes in the nose absorb faster with vaping, hence asthma inhalers that are for the nose, antihistamines, etc that have propylene glycol as a carrier.

I was not a doctor but an 18D which is a Special Forces Medic (Green Beret) and had all the qualifications to be a PA when i retired in 99 but couldn't stand sick people anymore!!!!

Now why do my farts smell so different and BAD!!!???????????