Please don't ever reform Frenilla or ACB.... I might have to chop my arms off if those flavors are ever altered
(JK, your reasoning behind it is mensch-worthy, I just don't mind 'bad' chemicals that aren't cigarettes lol)Nicoticket Testing Results
- Thread starter Kent Brooks
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(JK, your reasoning behind it is mensch-worthy, I just don't mind 'bad' chemicals that aren't cigarettes lol)
I just stumbled across this thread, as I sit and happily vape CLS/Frenilla. The smile on my face is ear-splitting! I can only reiterate what so many have said: transparency and integrity are like the front and back of one's hand; they are inextricably joined. I am delighted to associate with a vendor whose ethics are so top of mind that he willingly shares such information. I consider such a vendor to be a friend. Thank you, Clark Kent Brooks. This is why you are our super hero.
vaping on radioactive now... my favorite still the virus but radioactive is top notch as well.
Hmm.. I'm a bit paranoid/concerned. Maybe I'm just bad at interpreting the data.
It seems to me that Sure Bert actually has more AP/diacetyl than any of the other juices in the line (pretty much). I thought this would be the opposite, since Sure Bert isn't very creamy at all.
Not only that, but is ug/mL the same as ppm? Because I think things like Cuttwood Sugar Bear only measure in ~500 ppm of AP (and not a lot of diacetyl). I'd be shocked to find out that Sure Bert has 4x the amount of AP.
I've been vaping Sure Bert thinking that it pretty much doesn't have any of the AP/diacetyl that I've been so worried about, since it's more of a fruity (less creamy) flavor. Now I'm reading it's kind of the opposite.
Very paranoid. Please advise.
It seems to me that Sure Bert actually has more AP/diacetyl than any of the other juices in the line (pretty much). I thought this would be the opposite, since Sure Bert isn't very creamy at all.
Not only that, but is ug/mL the same as ppm? Because I think things like Cuttwood Sugar Bear only measure in ~500 ppm of AP (and not a lot of diacetyl). I'd be shocked to find out that Sure Bert has 4x the amount of AP.
I've been vaping Sure Bert thinking that it pretty much doesn't have any of the AP/diacetyl that I've been so worried about, since it's more of a fruity (less creamy) flavor. Now I'm reading it's kind of the opposite.
Very paranoid. Please advise.
Hmm.. I'm a bit paranoid/concerned. Maybe I'm just bad at interpreting the data.
It seems to me that Sure Bert actually has more AP/diacetyl than any of the other juices in the line (pretty much). I thought this would be the opposite, since Sure Bert isn't very creamy at all.
Not only that, but is ug/mL the same as ppm? Because I think things like Cuttwood Sugar Bear only measure in ~500 ppm of AP (and not a lot of diacetyl). I'd be shocked to find out that Sure Bert has 4x the amount of AP.
I've been vaping Sure Bert thinking that it pretty much doesn't have any of the AP/diacetyl that I've been so worried about, since it's more of a fruity (less creamy) flavor. Now I'm reading it's kind of the opposite.
Very paranoid. Please advise.
I'm seeing if I can get someone on this...
Hmm.. I'm a bit paranoid/concerned. Maybe I'm just bad at interpreting the data.
It seems to me that Sure Bert actually has more AP/diacetyl than any of the other juices in the line (pretty much). I thought this would be the opposite, since Sure Bert isn't very creamy at all.
Not only that, but is ug/mL the same as ppm? Because I think things like Cuttwood Sugar Bear only measure in ~500 ppm of AP (and not a lot of diacetyl). I'd be shocked to find out that Sure Bert has 4x the amount of AP.
I've been vaping Sure Bert thinking that it pretty much doesn't have any of the AP/diacetyl that I've been so worried about, since it's more of a fruity (less creamy) flavor. Now I'm reading it's kind of the opposite.
Very paranoid. Please advise.
Hey you!
We can't really compare and contrast our liquid with other vendors liquid. We also can't interpret the data for you. We can not and will not suggest that liquid X is safer than Y, etcetera... What we can do is provide the data.
There is no such thing as "safe" vaping.
There is no substitute for clean, fresh air.
We sincerely hope every vaper (who so desires) relieves themselves of nicotine and quits vaping.
Beyond that, we encourage everyone to educate themselves.
I know that's not tremendously helpful, but... There is insufficient evidence to make any definite statement about relative safety.
many people vaping years ahead of me... maybe 5-8 years earlier? no one reporting getting any disease yet and the other option is stickies so vape on!!!
anyway about popcorn lung... i know that it is dangerous once you caught it so better to choose open and reliable vendor such as nt. however, so far I have not heard any case of popcorn lung because of vaping
Don't get me wrong, there is real reason for concern. I'm not trying to minimize the risk at all... All I can say is that no one knows the effect it will have... The unknown is the risk we have all chosen... But, I personally like the chances as compared to the real and confirmed risk of smoking.
At a bare minimum, if someone's wishes to avoid diketones (or, whatever the latest greatest molecular cause for concern is)... They have the data required to make an informed decision.
I really appreciate this conversation... Please, continue to ask the "difficult questions" - it will only make Nicoticket and the whole industry better.
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As a nurse and fellow vaper - I will tell you up front that nothing we inhale into our lungs is safe - not even the air we breathe. Look at all the pollutants that are in the air around us. I will say that vaping while we do not have any long term studies and results at this time is safer than a cigarette. That is why we should be diligent is the use - know your supplier, and vape responsibly. Thanks Clark for being at the forefront of industry transparency.
As someone whose "fresh" air is below health standards I agree. My GP says living in Denver equals a pack a day cigarette habit in lung damage.
I've missed you Bill!!!
I definitely understand that "safe vaping" is kind of non-existent (at least for now). That said, I hate the comparison that, "Oh well you breathe gross city air every day" or whatever. Those are unavoidable risks (unless you decide to never go outside again), while vaping is a risk that I'm knowingly taking on. With that "avoidable risk", I'd like to minimize any possible negative effects, understandably, and I think most of us are in the same boat.
Definitely not trying to knock you or anything Kent, in fact, the data/paranoia hasn't kept me from vaping on Sure Bert -- at least, yet. I appreciate the response (sort of).
So speaking strictly mathematically, I'd just like to know if I'm correctly reading this info: Assuming a juice had 500 ppm of AP, is it safe to say that -- based solely on the data/numbers -- Sure Bert has 4x that amount of AP?
Beyond that, comparing juices only within the Nicoticket line, Sure Bert has the highest AP/diacetyl content?
Lastly, was this testing done by "Enthalpy"? I've heard their test results come under fire previously, as they've tested the same juice twice and yielded different results, and I'm pretty sure one of the owners of the lab actually has an e-juice company of his own.. I suppose this difference for the same juice could be because the AP/diacetyl content in each mL varies slightly (it's diffused throughout an entire given bottle)?
Just tryna make sense of the data, I'm no chemist.
Definitely not trying to knock you or anything Kent, in fact, the data/paranoia hasn't kept me from vaping on Sure Bert -- at least, yet. I appreciate the response (sort of).
So speaking strictly mathematically, I'd just like to know if I'm correctly reading this info: Assuming a juice had 500 ppm of AP, is it safe to say that -- based solely on the data/numbers -- Sure Bert has 4x that amount of AP?
Beyond that, comparing juices only within the Nicoticket line, Sure Bert has the highest AP/diacetyl content?
Lastly, was this testing done by "Enthalpy"? I've heard their test results come under fire previously, as they've tested the same juice twice and yielded different results, and I'm pretty sure one of the owners of the lab actually has an e-juice company of his own.. I suppose this difference for the same juice could be because the AP/diacetyl content in each mL varies slightly (it's diffused throughout an entire given bottle)?
Just tryna make sense of the data, I'm no chemist.
Hi Megan - been a wild last year -- but will be around a little more in the future - missed you tooAs someone whose "fresh" air is below health standards I agree. My GP says living in Denver equals a pack a day cigarette habit in lung damage.
I've missed you Bill!!!
.Hmm.. I'm a bit paranoid/concerned. Maybe I'm just bad at interpreting the data.
It seems to me that Sure Bert actually has more AP/diacetyl than any of the other juices in the line (pretty much). I thought this would be the opposite, since Sure Bert isn't very creamy at all.
Not only that, but is ug/mL the same as ppm? Because I think things like Cuttwood Sugar Bear only measure in ~500 ppm of AP (and not a lot of diacetyl). I'd be shocked to find out that Sure Bert has 4x the amount of AP.
I've been vaping Sure Bert thinking that it pretty much doesn't have any of the AP/diacetyl that I've been so worried about, since it's more of a fruity (less creamy) flavor. Now I'm reading it's kind of the opposite.
Very paranoid. Please advise.
Okay so we can wait for Kent`s response but here is my understanding.
If you look at this link (VaporShark E-Liquid Testing.pdf - Google Drive you will see that Sugarbear has 1.95 ug/ml of diacetly and 468 ug/ml of AP. Now, I am not sure how AP would translate into Kent`s published analysis. But as far as I know, AP would translate to Pentanedione only, not Acetoin. Somebody can correct me if I am wrong.
In that case, Sure Bert has 10 times diacetly of Sugarbear but still low enough. In terms of pentanedione or AP, Sure Bert actually has at least 450 times less than Sugarbear.
Now, if AP means acetoin + pentanedione, then yeah, Sure Bert has 4 times AP of Sugarbear.
So it is a matter of describing pentanedione and acetoin. As far as I know, AP`s chemical formula is 2,3-Pentanedione so that is why I assumed AP would mean pentanedione in this case.
I did a little research and I think I am correct on associating Pentanedione with AP. Acetoin is a different chemical that we we don`t have a lot of knowledge about. There are no extensive studies on the effect of Acetoin.
I think somebody should start studying this extensively, probably by using a spirometer. Hell, I might test myself with spirometer if it isn`t too expensive.
By the way, if you want to look at what is in a cigarette, check this link;
Ingredients and Additives in Cigarettes
Edit: You can also check this; Electronic Cigarette Trade Association (ECTA) of Canada
I think somebody should start studying this extensively, probably by using a spirometer. Hell, I might test myself with spirometer if it isn`t too expensive.
By the way, if you want to look at what is in a cigarette, check this link;
Ingredients and Additives in Cigarettes
Edit: You can also check this; Electronic Cigarette Trade Association (ECTA) of Canada
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While I sincerely appreciate Clark's disclosure, this is precisely why I'm personally not overly concerned with diketones. Even with them present in many if not all e-liquids, the harm reduction through vaping is exponential.
(My opinion, as it applies to me and only me.)
I agree with that. But Clark's approach is the right one. That is how as human species we innovate, evolve and always strive for the better. That is why human life doubled in 300 years. We have to keep asking questions and try to solve them.
I am certain that in time we will find new flavorings without diketones.
I am certain that in time we will find new flavorings without diketones.
Acetoin is basically AP with an extra carbon on the chain - they are all the same "class" - Diketones. I consider them all equally concerning until we get more definitive evidence. Longitudinal studies are what's needed! All that aside, common sense folks - these numbers are so much lower than a cigarette - and that's "the alternative".
Even if we don't know - I would think lower is still better. If you can make great liquid with no diketones, that's a huge + in my book. Going forward, that's what I am going to strive for.
I think that's the most important part. At this point, if I found a tasty juice that was guaranteed to have no diketones in it, it would become my ADV.
As it is though, I'm going to finish off some of the last of my flavored juices (Sure Bert, primarily), sell some of the stragglers, and switch to unflavored.
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