lolll i am a very light vaper, i only smoke about 8 drops max a day of low nic, i am shocked when i hear people smoke more than twice as much of the 36mg stuff. Can't be good for them. I really don't think half the e-smokers know how much they are getting, it should be made very clear by every supplier.
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Skeptah, go to this URL and read this. It answers all your questions from a clinical trial. These are important questions, to be sure, and they are NOT unknowns.
http://healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport21-Oct-08.pdf
http://healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport21-Oct-08.pdf
Just paged through the report. A couple of things to question:
- This was funded by Ruyan.
- the 98% absorption figure is refers to a research report done specifically on PG and not on nicotine.
The problem with this is the report they are referring to, which is a toxicology report on PG. Did they really test nic absorption in this report which is solely focused on PG? Does that 98% figure actually mean the absorption rate of PG and not nicotine?
Can anyone get their hands on the report?
Anonymous. Final Report on teh Safety Assessment of Propylene Glycol and Polypropylene Glycols J Am College of Toxicology. 1994; 13: 437-491. Final Draft
- This was funded by Ruyan.
- the 98% absorption figure is refers to a research report done specifically on PG and not on nicotine.
The problem with this is the report they are referring to, which is a toxicology report on PG. Did they really test nic absorption in this report which is solely focused on PG? Does that 98% figure actually mean the absorption rate of PG and not nicotine?
Can anyone get their hands on the report?
Anonymous. Final Report on teh Safety Assessment of Propylene Glycol and Polypropylene Glycols J Am College of Toxicology. 1994; 13: 437-491. Final Draft
Is two drops in five minutes a lot? Maybe the Kissbox atomiser I usually use is more efficient than your device?
I stopped vaping 36 neat when I got palpitations, it's very potent stuff. Some people say they vape 3ml of that a day ... that's 108mg!
Without expensive lab tests to check potency levels we are kind of stuck with having to take the manufacturers word for it. Don't expect tests soon, not much is quality assured with eliquid.
Some people have had overdose symptoms so we are definitely getting nicotine, how accurate the dose is we have to guess.
Quitting is possible for both cigs and nicotine without being certain about nic levels, it's just not as scientific when measuring doses and decreasing to zero. Many do give up cigs and some go down to zero nic.
You seem to be misreading that New Zealand report. Some of it mentions propylene glycol and external tests but the full report is about Ruyan cartridge eliquid with and without nicotine.
Understand that theres a human element to quitting called will..which is derived from a spectrum of sources -- mine would be resting on a more scientific foundation.
It would be silly to compare ...... addiction to nicotine addiction. But I like the model they use to treat ...... addiction. Switch to a harmless, non-narcotic, monitor carefully as you taper off. I never tried ...... btw so rest assured.
I'm sure some people differ..that's totally cool. I'm just weird like this.
CW
It would be silly to compare ...... addiction to nicotine addiction. But I like the model they use to treat ...... addiction. Switch to a harmless, non-narcotic, monitor carefully as you taper off. I never tried ...... btw so rest assured.
I'm sure some people differ..that's totally cool. I'm just weird like this.
CW
Well, like you I like certainty in what I'm taking. Unfortunately there isn't much of it in an unregulated product such as eliquid at the moment. The only one that has produced lab tests is the Wicked range from Pillbox, that's probably pretty reliable.
Don't forget that nicotine is relatively one of the less harmful ingredients in tobacco so quitting smoking is a good start. Good luck with it.
Don't forget that nicotine is relatively one of the less harmful ingredients in tobacco so quitting smoking is a good start. Good luck with it.
How much nicotine we get in one cigarette? Ex.: Marlboro
How much nicotine we get in one drop of e-liquid with 11mg of nicotine?
How much nicotine we get in one drop of e-liquid with 11mg of nicotine?
It's easier to figure it using the Health New Zealand tests. Each inhalation of 16mg e-liquid gives you approximately one-half the nicotine of an equivilant puff on a real cigarette. Thus, you can vape twice as much as you smoke -- and get the same nicotine blood level.
Hey Tropical Bob, haven't been here in a while and was looking to see what the latest and greatest developments are when this last post caught my eye.
We had been discussing Ruyan's 2nd Safety Report, that you had posted earlier this year, and the revision on nicotine absorption stated in the first study, that of the absorption being decreased from the 1/2 down to about 1/5. Now you state here that it's back up to 1/2 of what a real smoke delivers.
Is there another test I missed where their second test's revisions were found faulty and they're now re-upped the figures? I've been perusing and read the latest test but missed that they changed their findings again. Merry Xmas to all!
From Ruyan's 2nd report:
Conclusion.
These two methods give different results. Further tests in human subjects will clarify how many puffs are obtained by most smokers per cartridge. If the e-cigarette contained a 16 mg per 1 g of cartridge liquid, instead of the 0 mg cartridge as in Table 2, then, assuming the nicotine was equally concentrated across all puffs, and assuming all breaths are lung inhalations, 1.5 mg of liquid went into the
average puff, providing an estimated 1.5 * 16ug nicotine per puff = 24 micrograms of nicotine,. Fifteen puffs would thus supply 360 ug or 0.36 mg of nicotine, that is one fifth of the amount from one cigarette. And 15 shallow puffs would only supply 0.12 mg of nicotine. Volume and weight calculations thus give differing values. Pharmacokinetic
testing will show whether smokers obtain sufficient nicotine from the e-cigarette."
We had been discussing Ruyan's 2nd Safety Report, that you had posted earlier this year, and the revision on nicotine absorption stated in the first study, that of the absorption being decreased from the 1/2 down to about 1/5. Now you state here that it's back up to 1/2 of what a real smoke delivers.
Is there another test I missed where their second test's revisions were found faulty and they're now re-upped the figures? I've been perusing and read the latest test but missed that they changed their findings again. Merry Xmas to all!
From Ruyan's 2nd report:
Conclusion.
These two methods give different results. Further tests in human subjects will clarify how many puffs are obtained by most smokers per cartridge. If the e-cigarette contained a 16 mg per 1 g of cartridge liquid, instead of the 0 mg cartridge as in Table 2, then, assuming the nicotine was equally concentrated across all puffs, and assuming all breaths are lung inhalations, 1.5 mg of liquid went into the
average puff, providing an estimated 1.5 * 16ug nicotine per puff = 24 micrograms of nicotine,. Fifteen puffs would thus supply 360 ug or 0.36 mg of nicotine, that is one fifth of the amount from one cigarette. And 15 shallow puffs would only supply 0.12 mg of nicotine. Volume and weight calculations thus give differing values. Pharmacokinetic
testing will show whether smokers obtain sufficient nicotine from the e-cigarette."
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The third report doesn't state it, as far as I can ascertain. You might be right, although I think most e-smokers believe they're getting at least half as much nicotine. Me? I can't feel it. I can vape 24mg or 4 mg and not be able to tell you the difference.
Welcome back. Still snusing?
Welcome back. Still snusing?
Im with T/Bob on this one ..... I used to have 2 real cigs from Aberdeen A/pt to the city .... now i have been able to have 5 puffs on an ecig instead..... Good or bad, you say .... From Aberdeen Apt to the town is about 11mls.
Thanks TBob. Yep, still snusin and snuffin quite a bit as well too. I found that with a little practice, snuff can help quell the urge to smoke, along with some healthy doses of snus of course. Some of the American Scotch snuffs in particular can give a pretty healthy dose of vitamin N.
With snuff, nicotine or not, I just find it an enjoyable habit regardless. As much of a nicotine addict as I am, I still enjoy tobacco too. Evidently, the negative health repercussions from snuffin are practically non-existent. A couple of cigars here and there doesn't hurt either. Merry Xmas!
BTW, did you find the new 36mg smokejuices much better TBob?
With snuff, nicotine or not, I just find it an enjoyable habit regardless. As much of a nicotine addict as I am, I still enjoy tobacco too. Evidently, the negative health repercussions from snuffin are practically non-existent. A couple of cigars here and there doesn't hurt either. Merry Xmas!
BTW, did you find the new 36mg smokejuices much better TBob?
Haven't yet had a chance to try any 36mg. I need to order some from Cash, I think. Pillbox is across the pond. I'm almost exclusively Janty 16mg now. Not strong enough, but at least it doesn't sacrifice atomizers like E-Cig 24mg did for me.
I know this is an old thread but to give my own personal (I know it's not scientific but still worth looking at) experience. You can draw your own conclusions.
I pretty much vape constantly (12mg strength on average, moving it up once the package gets here), and have never felt any nicotine symptoms good or bad. I still feel the urge to smoke but for the most part am successful at denying it. I used to be a 1.5 pack a day cigarette smoker.
I had two atomizers go out in 24 hours and found myself without my vape fix so I went and bought a pack of smokes.
Sat down and smoked 1.5 cigs (usually sucked down 2-3 in a 10 min break, yea I smoke fast and often) and felt like I had smoked my first cig ever, light headed and everything.
We really have alot to learn/test as far as these things go. Personally I take that to mean that my vaping nicotine intake is much less than my smoking nicotine intake even though I'm doing it constantly instead of hourly.
Does anyone know of a way to test nic content without the $10k+ machine?
TropicalBob, do you inhale your pipe? I was a pipe smoker for many many years, inhaling.
The pipe was strong, compared to smokes, so I thought maybe that was the reason I can't seem to get a e-nic buzz, even puffing non-stop on two cigars loaded with 24mg (alternating as they got hot)
I feel a tiny throat hit, sometimes, and easily go thru 3 cigar carts in a day.
I even tried to OD - just to know how far to push it. Couldn't do it.
And ya, like rhyddereh, an analog lasts me about 90 seconds, a couple BIG drags and it's gone.
But I CAN get a nic buzz off a real smoke... in the morning, anyway
I'm really glad I read this, I'm not alone. I was beginning to wonder, with all these guys watering down their juice to 6mg because they were OD'ing... lol
The pipe was strong, compared to smokes, so I thought maybe that was the reason I can't seem to get a e-nic buzz, even puffing non-stop on two cigars loaded with 24mg (alternating as they got hot)
I feel a tiny throat hit, sometimes, and easily go thru 3 cigar carts in a day.
I even tried to OD - just to know how far to push it. Couldn't do it.
And ya, like rhyddereh, an analog lasts me about 90 seconds, a couple BIG drags and it's gone.
But I CAN get a nic buzz off a real smoke... in the morning, anyway
I'm really glad I read this, I'm not alone. I was beginning to wonder, with all these guys watering down their juice to 6mg because they were OD'ing... lol
Yep, I'm with you guys and couldn't OD nor wait to finish vapin to have a real smoke. I just don't seem to get any nicotine at all with e-cigs. I find it hard to believe all these OD's are in fact that when the most common OD symptoms are seldom described; hiccups. More power to those with success but I wouldn't be surprised if they've already beat their addiction to nicotine.
Having a real smoke and experiencing strong reactions to nicotine is undeniable evidence that your system is no longer accustomed to nicotine, at least in that amount. Obviously the e-cig is a useful device and can help a percentage of people stop smoking but I bet it's not by nicotine replacement. I wonder if and when the e-cig is properly tested there won't be some surprises.
I believe there is an easy and cheap way to know for certain how much nicotine these devices deliver, if anyone really wants to know. Obviously there's quite a bit of interest in it with an entire section devoted to nicotine and concerns of OD's, tapers and healthy daily dosing. Any succesful e-smoker who doesn't use any other nicotine supplements could easily find out at home whether there's been any nicotine in their system for the last couple days.
Cotinine tests would be such an easy fix for all these dosing questions. A quick Google of "cotinine test" will net you dozens of DIY kits. Cotinine tests are cheap and easy and they can supposedly measure accurately how much nicotine is in your system if any at all. I wonder why noone has done this yet...
Having a real smoke and experiencing strong reactions to nicotine is undeniable evidence that your system is no longer accustomed to nicotine, at least in that amount. Obviously the e-cig is a useful device and can help a percentage of people stop smoking but I bet it's not by nicotine replacement. I wonder if and when the e-cig is properly tested there won't be some surprises.
I believe there is an easy and cheap way to know for certain how much nicotine these devices deliver, if anyone really wants to know. Obviously there's quite a bit of interest in it with an entire section devoted to nicotine and concerns of OD's, tapers and healthy daily dosing. Any succesful e-smoker who doesn't use any other nicotine supplements could easily find out at home whether there's been any nicotine in their system for the last couple days.
Cotinine tests would be such an easy fix for all these dosing questions. A quick Google of "cotinine test" will net you dozens of DIY kits. Cotinine tests are cheap and easy and they can supposedly measure accurately how much nicotine is in your system if any at all. I wonder why noone has done this yet...
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