Nicotine Question

[C4nine]

Hi all! (New here...)

I have been vaping for a long time now (over a year and a half) and have run into a sudden bit of paranoia that Google cannot seem to solve. I know that there is a lot of controversy surrounding how toxic nicotine really is. I have always been decently responsible with my vaping, primarily used vuse products, but there is always a possibility for anyone who vapes to have the tiniest leak... not the persistent kind, but the usual stuff.. This is what bred my paranoia, wiki says that the lethal dose for children is 0.1 mg/kg ... that would mean a fraction of a drop could kill an infant. What bothers me even more is that nowhere can I find any info on whether or not e juice in small drop/smudge/ect amounts evaporate or dry over time, or become non-harmful. The only related info I can find on Google are people concerned with whether their stock is evaporating and steeping related things. I have recently started a job where I work with playground equipment and have become paranoid that somewhere in my house there is a drop of juice just chilling waiting for me to stick my hand in it, not notice, and somehow have it end up somewhere and hurt somebody. I know this probably sounds paranoid to most but, I still find it odd that nowhere on the internet is there any info (that I can find) that would calm my paranoia. I suddenly feel the urge to wipe down every surface of my house with rubbing alcohol...and have smoked my first pack or two of cigarettes in years...

Any knowledge to help with this would be greatly appreciated...

 

[HigherStateD]

Ok, first, anecdotally, the other day while teaching a friend how to mix, I calmed his fear by pouring about a ml of 100mg base on my palm. Swirled it around with a finger, then rinsed it off. It will absorb through the skin, but not quickly. Patches use a chemical, dimethelsulphoxide (DMSO) to make the nicotine pass more rapidly, but it still takes a day for the patch to fully absorb. NOW, if I were working around playground equipment, I wouldn't have a bottle of juice on me to even possibly leak, and if a pod from a vuse broke open, I'd be wanting to clean it up right away, but I wouldn't be worried that any residual nicotine left on the surface would be above toxicity levels, even with a 5% pod. Also, nicotine is water soluble, so rinse, then dry, and most all of it should be gone.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

I know that there is a lot of controversy surrounding how toxic nicotine really is..

Welcome to ECF, C4nine.
There shouldn't be any controversy, nicotine IS toxic, but at the low levels we use it at it is not that dangerous. As HigherStateD stated, getting some 100 mg/ml (10%) nic liq on your skin isn't going to harm you. Just rinse it off fairly quickly or one will probably get some skin irritation. Now drinking it will give you an upset stomach, but you'll throw it up before it would seriously harm you.

 

[zoiDman]

Hi all! (New here...)

I have been vaping for a long time now (over a year and a half) and have run into a sudden bit of paranoia that Google cannot seem to solve. I know that there is a lot of controversy surrounding how toxic nicotine really is. I have always been decently responsible with my vaping, primarily used vuse products, but there is always a possibility for anyone who vapes to have the tiniest leak... not the persistent kind, but the usual stuff.. This is what bred my paranoia, wiki says that the lethal dose for children is 0.1 mg/kg ... that would mean a fraction of a drop could kill an infant. What bothers me even more is that nowhere can I find any info on whether or not e juice in small drop/smudge/ect amounts evaporate or dry over time, or become non-harmful. The only related info I can find on Google are people concerned with whether their stock is evaporating and steeping related things. I have recently started a job where I work with playground equipment and have become paranoid that somewhere in my house there is a drop of juice just chilling waiting for me to stick my hand in it, not notice, and somehow have it end up somewhere and hurt somebody. I know this probably sounds paranoid to most but, I still find it odd that nowhere on the internet is there any info (that I can find) that would calm my paranoia. I suddenly feel the urge to wipe down every surface of my house with rubbing alcohol...and have smoked my first pack or two of cigarettes in years...

Any knowledge to help with this would be greatly appreciated...

Can you Post a Link to where you saw 0.1 mg/kg value? Because I believe that it is Orders of Magnitude Incorrect.

Toxicity is many times measured in the the LD50 Scale. The MSDS HyperGlossary: LD-50, 50% Lethal Dose

You will get a Wild Range of Values for the LD50 of Nicotine. Because there is so much Hype and FUD that surrounds Nicotine.

Absolutely e-Liquids needed to be Stored where Children or an Infant can Not get access to them. Either Yours or a Child or Infant that may come into you home.

But the concept of Wiping Surfaces with Alcohol is Irrational Fear. And a Person probably have a Greater Risk lurking in the Cabinet under their Sink. Or the Chemicals in their Garage than you they do by keeping e-Liquids in a Safe, Out-of-the-Way place.

BTW - If the LD50 for was actually that Low, and if casual Surface Contact actually was a Problem, wouldn't there be a Non-Stop wave of reports of Child and Infant Hospitalizing in the News Every Day?

 

[zoiDman]

Hi all! (New here...)

I have been vaping for a long time now (over a year and a half) and have run into a sudden bit of paranoia that Google cannot seem to solve. I know that there is a lot of controversy surrounding how toxic nicotine really is. I have always been decently responsible with my vaping, primarily used vuse products, but there is always a possibility for anyone who vapes to have the tiniest leak... not the persistent kind, but the usual stuff.. This is what bred my paranoia, wiki says that the lethal dose for children is 0.1 mg/kg ... that would mean a fraction of a drop could kill an infant. What bothers me even more is that nowhere can I find any info on whether or not e juice in small drop/smudge/ect amounts evaporate or dry over time, or become non-harmful. The only related info I can find on Google are people concerned with whether their stock is evaporating and steeping related things. I have recently started a job where I work with playground equipment and have become paranoid that somewhere in my house there is a drop of juice just chilling waiting for me to stick my hand in it, not notice, and somehow have it end up somewhere and hurt somebody. I know this probably sounds paranoid to most but, I still find it odd that nowhere on the internet is there any info (that I can find) that would calm my paranoia. I suddenly feel the urge to wipe down every surface of my house with rubbing alcohol...and have smoked my first pack or two of cigarettes in years...

Any knowledge to help with this would be greatly appreciated...

BTW2 - Welcome to the ECF.

 

[C4nine]

The Wikipedia page on Nicotine Poisoning says the ld50 for adults is 0.5-1 mg/kg and 0.1 mg/kg for children. It also states that it could also be somewhere between 6.5 and 13 mg/kg. (I can't post links here yet).

The fear seems irrational yes as nobody else is afraid, but it does bother me that according to Google searches one would be lead to believe that:

Ld50 is either micro or huge, with the cdc taking the smaller numbers

Neither PG, VG, or Nicotine evaporate to any significant degree, meaning it just sits there for a long long time

Nicotine takes an eternity to lose its strength

Those 3 factors together are terrifying and nowhere in my searches have I found anyone even mention this concern

I just imagine a scenario where someone unknowingly (or carelessly) gets juice on something, then a parent touches it and tends to their infant not noticing.

Another part of it is, in a perfect world everyone is a responsible vaper... but the reality is that most are not. I have seen people do some concerning stuff, as if it were Apple juice they were handling. People cleaning their mods/wiping their leaks with their shirt for instance...

I would love for my paranoia to go away, and was expecting to find something like "oh, no.. it just evaporates in a day or two in small amounts" when searching, but was surprised to find no mention on any of this.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

I can understand an initial caution when getting into this whole vape thing, but keep reading stuff and pay attention to ALL of it, not just danger/risky things, all of which are over blown up by anti vaping/nicotine people/organizations. Stick around here for a while, I think if you're serious about this, you'll be pleasantly surprised that it's not even close to as bad as some people want people to believe.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

This post has been deleted.

 

[zoiDman]

The Wikipedia page on Nicotine Poisoning says the ld50 for adults is 0.5-1 mg/kg and 0.1 mg/kg for children. It also states that it could also be somewhere between 6.5 and 13 mg/kg. (I can't post links here yet).

The fear seems irrational yes as nobody else is afraid, but it does bother me that according to Google searches one would be lead to believe that:

Ld50 is either micro or huge, with the cdc taking the smaller numbers

Neither PG, VG, or Nicotine evaporate to any significant degree, meaning it just sits there for a long long time

Nicotine takes an eternity to lose its strength

Those 3 factors together are terrifying and nowhere in my searches have I found anyone even mention this concern

I just imagine a scenario where someone unknowingly (or carelessly) gets juice on something, then a parent touches it and tends to their infant not noticing.

Another part of it is, in a perfect world everyone is a responsible vaper... but the reality is that most are not. I have seen people do some concerning stuff, as if it were Apple juice they were handling. People cleaning their mods/wiping their leaks with their shirt for instance...

I would love for my paranoia to go away, and was expecting to find something like "oh, no.. it just evaporates in a day or two in small amounts" when searching, but was surprised to find no mention on any of this.

I found the Link you are referring to...

The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 0.5–1.0 mg/kg can be a lethal dosage for adult humans, and 0.1 mg/kg for children.[18][19] However the widely used human LD50 estimate of 0.5–1.0 mg/kg was questioned in a 2013 review, in light of several documented cases of humans surviving much higher doses; the 2013 review suggests that the lower limit causing fatal outcomes is 500–1000 mg of ingested nicotine, corresponding to 6.5–13 mg/kg orally.[20] An accidental ingestion of only 6 mg may be lethal to children.[21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning

As I said earlier, the Difference between the 0.5-1.0 mg/kg and the However is an Order of Magnitude Difference. Or More.

Do your Due Diligence. And Good that you are Concerned about Toxicity. But I think you are Fearful of something that just Isn't occurring in the Real World.

Else in our Over-Hyped Media Age, where anything Negative about e-Cigarettes is Banner News, you would have heard a Lot About it. Instead of Nothing.

 

[HigherStateD]

When I first started vaping with a real mod, I was using 6mg juice, 30+ml a day. I barely weigh 180lbs. So, about 80kg. At stressful times, I could suck down 10ml of juice in an hour.
I quickly tapered down, and am now at 0.4mg per ml, so If I do have a tolerance, it isn't much. If your figures are right, the 100mg I spilled on my hand would have had a higher than 50% chance of killing me... I barely felt anything from it, and took a few pulls off my vape immidatly after to demonstrate.

 

[C4nine]

Oddly enough, I don't have any fears regarding my own safety, or my family's (youngest is 7)... When my paranoia began I went out and bought my first box of Marlboro Menthols in like 8 years lol...It's the little little kids... Fear of contaminating a surface they touch... Friend just had a baby and visits, get paranoid my pen spit or leaked at some point in the past without me noticing. Start to question if I became complacent at any point and have juice or gunk hiding on some surface somewhere... Probably just second guessing myself however, bit the possibility combined with the fact that to my knowledge it would just sit... indefinitely... still bugs me...