Nitecore UMS4 Charger Question

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Hey, vapers.

I recently purchased the Nitecore UMS4 charger, hoping to increase my charge time from my Nitecore UM4 charger.

The UMS4 is listed as pushing 2A per slot when charging two batteries.

This is curious because the unit itself, and the QC charger I'm using with it, are both 3 amps.

How can a 3A charger supply 2A per slot (4A) ?

Charging the batteries, I found the UMS4 to charge slower than my UM4 at 1.5A per slot.

I've followed all the directions, including using slot 2/4 or 1/3... I've tried two different QC chargers.... the box literally says '3A' charger on it..... so....

What is the story here. Is the battery meter giving false information, saying that the slots are receiving 2000mA each ? What do you think ?

Any comments will be appreciated. I've reached out to Nitecore via this forum, and was told to email customer service. Still haven't heard back.

Here's the post I created on their offical thread here: Nitecore UMS4 Intelligent USB Battery Charger

I'm charging 21700 batteries, Samsung 40T.

All the best !

 

[zoiDman]

Hey, vapers.

I recently purchased the Nitecore UMS4 charger, hoping to increase my charge time from my Nitecore UM4 charger.

The UMS4 is listed as pushing 2A per slot when charging two batteries.

This is curious because the unit itself, and the QC charger I'm using with it, are both 3 amps.

How can a 3A charger supply 2A per slot (4A) ?

Charging the batteries, I found the UMS4 to charge slower than my UM4 at 1.5A per slot.

I've followed all the directions, including using slot 2/4 or 1/3... I've tried two different QC chargers.... the box literally says '3A' charger on it..... so....

What is the story here. Is the battery meter giving false information, saying that the slots are receiving 2000mA each ? What do you think ?

Any comments will be appreciated. I've reached out to Nitecore via this forum, and was told to email customer service. Still haven't heard back.

Here's the post I created on their offical thread here: Nitecore UMS4 Intelligent USB Battery Charger

I'm charging 21700 batteries, Samsung 40T.

All the best !

From the Nitecore site...

UMS4

Input
DC 5V/2A 12V/1.5A
18W (MAX)

Output voltage
4.35V±1% / 4.2V±1% / 3.7V±1% / 1.48V±1%

Output current
QC Mode: 3,000mA*1 (MAX) 2,000mA*2 (MAX) 1,000mA*4 (MAX)
Standard Mode: 2,000mA*1 (MAX) 1,000mA*2 (MAX) 500mA*4 (MAX)

Compatible withIMR/Li-ion/LiFePO4: 10440, 14500, 14650, 16500, 16340(RCR123), 16650,
17350, 17500, 17650, 17670, 17700, 18350, 18490,
18500, 18650, 18700, 20700, 21700, 22500, 22650,
25500, 26500, 26650, 26700
Ni-MH/Ni-Cd: AA, AAA, AAAA, C, D

---

Maybe you are in "Standard Mode"?

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Maybe you are in "Standard Mode"?

Yes, I have read all that data, also.
It only supports my argument that it can't be 2A per slot.
I AM on 'quick charge' mode.
I realize their site claims 2A per slot. However, I'm not getting those resutls.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes, I have read all that data, also.
It only supports my argument that it can't be 2A per slot.
I AM on 'quick charge' mode.
I realize their site claims 2A per slot. However, I'm not getting those resutls.

Not sure what is Going On? Maybe you got a Defective Charger?

How do you Power the Charger?

 

[zoiDman]

...

How do you Power the Charger?

BTW - This might have something to do with it...

Qualcomm's Quick Charge 2.0 technology explained

Because the USM4 Manual talks about QC 2.0 input. But I'm Not very familiar with this technology.

https://charger.nitecore.com/Uploads/FLASHLIGHTS/download/ums4.pdf

Maybe if @Mooch has some time, or someone else Familiar with "Quick Charging", the He/They can chime in on it.

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Maybe if @Mooch has some time, or someone else Familiar with "Quick Charging", the He/They can chime in on it.

I've been discussing this with @Mooch and he recommended I post my question here in this thread.

Also, I'm well aware that Nitecore claims what they claim, however, I'm not getting those results in real life.
As you can see by the documentation on both of those links you provided, the max charge a QC charger can output is 3A. Even the box for the Nitecore charger says '3A".
So how can it do 2A x 2 slots (4A) ?
Why doesn't it charge faster than my 1.5A/slot um4 charger ?
( I've also asked this question here: Nitecore UMS4 Intelligent USB Battery Charger )
( There's even an option to charge two batteries @ 3A each, which would be 6A! I may try it on this 3A setting to see if it kicks it into 2A mode, dunno)

 

[mimöschen]

Review of Nitecore UM4

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Review of Nitecore UM4

Yes that is the UM4 which I also own, but my question is about the UMS4.

 

[mimöschen]

Review of Nitecore UMS4

 

[zoiDman]

I've been discussing this with @Mooch and he recommended I post my question here in this thread.

Also, I'm well aware that Nitecore claims what they claim, however, I'm not getting those results in real life.
As you can see by the documentation on both of those links you provided, the max charge a QC charger can output is 3A. Even the box for the Nitecore charger says '3A".
So how can it do 2A x 2 slots (4A) ?
Why doesn't it charge faster than my 1.5A/slot um4 charger ?
( I've also asked this question here: Nitecore UMS4 Intelligent USB Battery Charger )
( There's even an option to charge two batteries @ 3A each, which would be 6A! I may try it on this 3A setting to see if it kicks it into 2A mode, dunno)

I just Don't Know what to tell you. Because I'm Not exactly sure how that Charger Works.

I could see a Battery Charger doing 2 Amps x 2 Slots. But limiting to Max Amps to a Single Slot at 3 Amps to stay under the Max Watts?

And then there is this from the Specs...

Input
DC 5V/2A 12V/1.5A
18W (MAX)

So does that mean that Battery Charger has (or can use) Two Independent sources of Input Voltage? Where the 5v Rail feeds maybe the Board/Display and the 12v Rail is Stepped Down to Charge the Batteries?

Or does it mean that the Battery Charger is Compatible with Non-QC wall chargers that only supply 5v?

And on top of All This, is the Battery Charger looking at the Battery to be charged and then making determinations as to what the Battery Charger thinks is the Maximum Amps that battery should get?

Or maybe the Unit is just Wacked? And should be RMA-ed.

I Dunno?

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Input
DC 5V/2A 12V/1.5A
18W (MAX)

I believe this rating only applies to non-qc mode.

With a QC charger, the charger accepts 3 amps from the QC charger, which is its maximum output, and applies that charge, thru 5V, to the batteries.

I have discovered something, however.

I may try it on this 3A setting to see if it kicks it into 2A mode, dunno

I set the mA charge to 3000 on both slots (slots 1 and 3, two batteries) and it read 2500-3000 mA per battery going in, and it charged them an hour faster then on 2000mA.

So what is going on here ? The charger is either extremely incorrect, or, they have some kind of magic going on. It can't be 2.5-3a per slot. The QC can only output 3A.

 

[zoiDman]

I believe this rating only applies to non-qc mode.

With a QC charger, the charger accepts 3 amps from the QC charger, which is its maximum output, and applies that charge, thru 5V, to the batteries.

I have discovered something, however.



I set the mA charge to 3000 on both slots (slots 1 and 3, two batteries) and it read 2500-3000 mA per battery going in, and it charged them an hour faster then on 2000mA.

So what is going on here ? The charger is either extremely incorrect, or, they have some kind of magic going on. It can't be 2.5-3a per slot. The QC can only output 3A.

Definitely some Weird Mojo going on.

BTW - Can a QC wall charger output at 12v?

Because you keep Mentioning 3 Amps. But if the Battery Charger can receive 12v @ 1.5 Amps, can't it turn that into 2 Channels of 4.5v @ 2 Amps?

"
Quick Charge (QC)

QC is a charging technology designed by Qualcomm. Both device side and charging side must be equipped with QC chipsets to enable the QC charging. QC uses high voltage and high current (5V, 9V or 12V, 1A-2A) to charge devices. QC charging usually supports smartphones or tablets.

*Notice: If only one side has QC chipset, a device will use "Fast charging" instead of "Quick Charge "."

Difference between Fast Charging, Quick Charge (QC) and USB Power Delivery (USB-PD) | AVLT Technology｜ Found by AVLAB

 

[Seiggy]

Based on what I've read in the online manual (I don't own a UMS4)
Copied right from the manual and documentation.

Default charge mode:
When charging 1 or 2 batteries, it is recommended to put them into Slot 1 and Slot 3, or into Slot 2 and Slot 4, to achieve a higher default charging current of 2,000mA. Otherwise the default charging current is 1,000mA.

QC charge mode:
** When charging 1 or 2 batteries, it is recommended to put them into Slot 1 and Slot 3, or into Slot 2 and Slot 4,to achieve a wider selectable range of charging current of 300mA-3,000mA. Otherwise the selectable range of charging current is 300mA-2,000mA.

QC Charging Mode
The UMS4 is QC 2.0 input available. When the charger is powered by a QC supportive device or connected to a QC adapter, the screen will show “Quick Charge” and the single slot max output will achieve 3,000mA.

Also noted:
The UMS4 will reach a maximum total output of 4000mA when using a 2A output USB power adapter. When the charger is powered or connected to quick charge (QC) power adapter, the screen will show “Quick Charge” and the single slot will achieve a max output of 3000mA

So it does sound like some Vodo magic is going on. 2A input and get 4A out ?????

I'm confused...... Normally with that I'm aware of is MAX amps into charger is MAX amps out to the batteries being changed (within limits of each battery slot or combination(s))

 

[zoiDman]

...

So it does sound like some Vodo magic is going on. 2A input and get 4A out ?????

...

But at What Voltage?

If the Battery Charger's Input was 5 Volts @ 2 Amps, then you Can't have a 5 Volt output to the Batteries @ 4 Amps. That would be a "Free Lunch".

But what if the the Battery Charger's Input was 12 Volts @ 1.5 Amps?

Could the Battery Charger Step Down that Higher Voltage and trade Volts for Amps to make Two Channels of 4.5 Volts @ 2 Amps each?

And 4.5 Volts x 2 Amps x 2 Channels would be 18 Watts of Power.

Like I said Earlier, I'm not an Expert in all this. And I could be Way Off Base here. But, at Least, the Math seems to Jive.

 

[zoiDman]

From mimöschen's above link...

Measurements

• Discharges LiIon with 0.2mA and NiMH with 0.05mA when not connected to power
• Below 0.8 volt the charger will show EEEE and charge with about 0.5mA.
• At 0.8 volt the charger will assume NiMH and start charging.
• The charger will assume NiMH below 1.7 volt and LiIon above 2.0 volt.
• Will not restart if battery voltage drops.
• Charges with 0.05mA when LiIon battery is full.
• Voltmeter readout freezes when charging is finished
• Voltmeter is within 0.03 volt.
• Voltmeter has a max. readout of 4.20 volt when LiFePO4 or 4.3V is not selected.
• Slot #1 & #3 shares a charge circuit, the same with #2 & #4, i.e. charge speed will be halved when they are used together.
• Change between 1A and 2A for LiIon in QC mode is around 55mm long batteries.
• Charger uses 12V in QC mode and up to 2A current.
• Charge will restart charging after power loss or battery insertion.
• Power consumption from USB when idle without batteries is 32mA for standard USB and 50mA from QC

 

[Seiggy]

I agree, it comes down to what the QC AC connected adapter is capable of / what's used:
Quick Charge 3.0 - 3.6-6V=3A; 6-9V=2A; 9-12V 1.5A output, using Quick ChargeTM 3.0 Technology
Quick Change 2.0 - 3.6V-6.5V/2.4A, 6.5V-9V/2A, 9V-12/1.5A output

Parameters:
Input: DC 5V/2A or 12V/1.5A 18W (Max)
Output: 4.35V±1%/ 4.2V±1%/ 3.7V±1%/ 1.48V±1%
QC Output Current: 3000mA*1 (Max), 2000mA*2 (Max), 1000mA*4 (Max)
Standard Output Current: 2000mA*1 (Max), 1000mA*2 (Max), 500mA*4 (Max)

With the right QC Adapter, the max. mA per the UMS4 would be 3A for a signal battery or 2A for two batteries or a MAX charge of 4A.

The comment above "I set the mA charge to 3000 on both slots (slots 1 and 3, two batteries) and it read 2500-3000 mA per battery going in." through me WAY OFF since the max of 4A is all the UMS4 can do.

Still confused.....

 

[zoiDman]

...

Still confused.....

I hear you.

We can do Deep Dives into Figuring Out what a Charger like this is Capable of Doing using things like Ohms Law and Cryptic Manual Descriptions. But that's all Based on the Charger doing what it is Supposed to be Doing.

And I'd say that there is probably a 50:50 Chance that it Isn't.

LOL

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

"I set the mA charge to 3000 on both slots (slots 1 and 3, two batteries) and it read 2500-3000 mA per battery going in." through me WAY OFF since the max of 4A is all the UMS4 can do.

To be clear,
The charger READS 2500-3000mA going into each slot, as I set the allowable charge per slot to 3000mA on each one (the charger allows for this).
Whether the charger is actually doing that is of course unlikely.
However, with the mA manually upped to 3000, the batteries charged much faster, almost an hour faster.

Also, are you assuming it does 2A/slot by its manual ? How can a QC3.0 with 3A max provide 4A of power ?

Your guess is as good as mine, which is why I created this thread, to try to figure this thing out.
Customer service ignores me so far.

 

[Seiggy]

DJ, please let us know what they say. Yea, I would be concerned with a charger that is telling me it total mA charging with 2 batteries is between 5A & 6A when their charger specs. stated max of 4A is a little scary.

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

when their charger specs. stated max of 4A

Yes, and why they get 4A (where they claim 2000mA per slot) from a 3A charger is also a mystery.
Obviously the charger's current monitor is not actually reading the mA going into the batteries.
Or is it ?
They certainly charged much faster on the 3000 setting. Maybe that's how to actually get 2A per slot.
Saying that it takes 2A at 12volts, wouldn't make it generate 4A, to answer @zoiDman .

So I'll write to customer service again from a different email, and see if I can get some replies !