Nitecore UMS4 Charger Question

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Hey, vapers.

I recently purchased the Nitecore UMS4 charger, hoping to increase my charge time from my Nitecore UM4 charger.

The UMS4 is listed as pushing 2A per slot when charging two batteries.

This is curious because the unit itself, and the QC charger I'm using with it, are both 3 amps.

How can a 3A charger supply 2A per slot (4A) ?

Charging the batteries, I found the UMS4 to charge slower than my UM4 at 1.5A per slot.

I've followed all the directions, including using slot 2/4 or 1/3... I've tried two different QC chargers.... the box literally says '3A' charger on it..... so....

What is the story here. Is the battery meter giving false information, saying that the slots are receiving 2000mA each ? What do you think ?

Any comments will be appreciated. I've reached out to Nitecore via this forum, and was told to email customer service. Still haven't heard back.

Here's the post I created on their offical thread here: Nitecore UMS4 Intelligent USB Battery Charger

I'm charging 21700 batteries, Samsung 40T.

All the best !

 

[zoiDman]

...

So it does sound like some Vodo magic is going on. 2A input and get 4A out ?????

...

But at What Voltage?

If the Battery Charger's Input was 5 Volts @ 2 Amps, then you Can't have a 5 Volt output to the Batteries @ 4 Amps. That would be a "Free Lunch".

But what if the the Battery Charger's Input was 12 Volts @ 1.5 Amps?

Could the Battery Charger Step Down that Higher Voltage and trade Volts for Amps to make Two Channels of 4.5 Volts @ 2 Amps each?

And 4.5 Volts x 2 Amps x 2 Channels would be 18 Watts of Power.

Like I said Earlier, I'm not an Expert in all this. And I could be Way Off Base here. But, at Least, the Math seems to Jive.

 

[zoiDman]

I'm not quite sure where your confusion lies. ...

Where I Think the Confusion lies is that DJ Colonel Corn thinks that His QC Wall Charger is sending 5V @ 3 Amps (MAX) to his Battery Charger.

And that is Not what I think is going on.

What I think is happening is when DJ plugs his QC Wall Charger into the Battery Charger, the QC Wall Charger sends a "Handshake" and asks...

"Hi. Are you a QC Device?"

Then the Battery Charger replies... "I Sure Am!"

Then the QC Wall Charger says... "Cool! What is the Maximum Voltage you can handle?"

Then the Battery Charger replies... "12 Volts Please"

Then the QC Wall Charger says... "OK. 12 Volts coming right up"

And then the QC Wall Charger starts sending 12 Volts @ 1.5 Amps (or so).

Now, if the QC Wall Charger is plugged into a Non-QC Device, then when it Asks if the device is a QC Device, it gets No Reply. So the QC Wall Charge reverts to it's 5 Volt out put at a Maximum 3 Amps.

So all that Stuff about the QC Wall Charger having a Maximum of 3 Amps ONLY Applies when it is Outputting 5 Volts. And when the QC Wall Charger is Connected to DJ's QC Capable Battery, it Isn't. It is sending 12 Volts to the Battery Charger. And the 12 Volts is at 1.5 Amps (or so).

This is Also why you see the Dual Input numbers in Specs for the UMS4 Battery Charger.

Input
DC 5V/2A 12V/1.5A
18W (MAX)

The Battery Charger will use 5V @ 2 Amps Input if you plug an Non-QC Wall Charger into it.
But will use 12V @ 1.5 Amps Input if it is connected to a QC Wall Charger.

---

On the Battery Charger:

I can see why the Maximum Single Slot Amperage is 3 Amps. Because the Battery Charger really Doesn't have Single Slots. It has Two Set of Dual Slots. Or 2 Lanes each made up of 2 Slots.

And if the Battery Charger allowed 3 Amps to flow thru Both Slots in a a Lane, then that would Exceed the 18 Watts that the Battery Charger can handle.

JMO after a Restless night of Little Sleep. And perhaps Too Much Coffee.

 

[zoiDman]

I have a few from XTAR but my are rated at 4.5-6.0V 0-2.5A. I also don't have a QC wall charger.

Yeah... that is how my XTAR VC4 is.

I also like to Charge Batteries at 0.5 Amps.

 

[Seiggy]

I agree, it comes down to what the QC AC connected adapter is capable of / what's used:
Quick Charge 3.0 - 3.6-6V=3A; 6-9V=2A; 9-12V 1.5A output, using Quick ChargeTM 3.0 Technology
Quick Change 2.0 - 3.6V-6.5V/2.4A, 6.5V-9V/2A, 9V-12/1.5A output

Parameters:
Input: DC 5V/2A or 12V/1.5A 18W (Max)
Output: 4.35V±1%/ 4.2V±1%/ 3.7V±1%/ 1.48V±1%
QC Output Current: 3000mA*1 (Max), 2000mA*2 (Max), 1000mA*4 (Max)
Standard Output Current: 2000mA*1 (Max), 1000mA*2 (Max), 500mA*4 (Max)

With the right QC Adapter, the max. mA per the UMS4 would be 3A for a signal battery or 2A for two batteries or a MAX charge of 4A.

The comment above "I set the mA charge to 3000 on both slots (slots 1 and 3, two batteries) and it read 2500-3000 mA per battery going in." through me WAY OFF since the max of 4A is all the UMS4 can do.

Still confused.....

 

[zoiDman]

...

Still confused.....

I hear you.

We can do Deep Dives into Figuring Out what a Charger like this is Capable of Doing using things like Ohms Law and Cryptic Manual Descriptions. But that's all Based on the Charger doing what it is Supposed to be Doing.

And I'd say that there is probably a 50:50 Chance that it Isn't.

LOL

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

"I set the mA charge to 3000 on both slots (slots 1 and 3, two batteries) and it read 2500-3000 mA per battery going in." through me WAY OFF since the max of 4A is all the UMS4 can do.

To be clear,
The charger READS 2500-3000mA going into each slot, as I set the allowable charge per slot to 3000mA on each one (the charger allows for this).
Whether the charger is actually doing that is of course unlikely.
However, with the mA manually upped to 3000, the batteries charged much faster, almost an hour faster.

Also, are you assuming it does 2A/slot by its manual ? How can a QC3.0 with 3A max provide 4A of power ?

Your guess is as good as mine, which is why I created this thread, to try to figure this thing out.
Customer service ignores me so far.

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

when their charger specs. stated max of 4A

Yes, and why they get 4A (where they claim 2000mA per slot) from a 3A charger is also a mystery.
Obviously the charger's current monitor is not actually reading the mA going into the batteries.
Or is it ?
They certainly charged much faster on the 3000 setting. Maybe that's how to actually get 2A per slot.
Saying that it takes 2A at 12volts, wouldn't make it generate 4A, to answer @zoiDman .

So I'll write to customer service again from a different email, and see if I can get some replies !

 

[zoiDman]

...

Saying that it takes 2A at 12volts, wouldn't make it generate 4A, to answer @zoiDman .

...

You can't turn 12V @ 1.5A into 4 Amps at a Lower Voltage?

Like 4.5 Volts?

 

[zoiDman]

OK folks
A kind forum member, @HigherStateD , in the thread Nitecore UMS4 Intelligent USB Battery Charger , has reminded me that Watt's Law dictates the forumula Watts = Volts * Amps.
Therefore, since the UMS4 can output 18 watts (4*4.2 leaves room to spare), it can charge two slots at 2000mA each.
Still unsure why then, the QC charger and Nitecore charger are both rated 3amps maximum, but that just shows my lack of understanding regarding electricity.
If anyone wants to chime in on why these units claim a 3A limit, I'd be interested to hear it.
Because at 18 watts, charging at 4.2 volts, it can ouput just over 4 amps.

What is the Brand/Model of the QC Charger you are using?
And what are the Complete Output Specs for it?

 

[HigherStateD]

Yes, I understand this, it lowers the charge as the batteries approach 4.2 volts.
Still, at 18 watts, the UMS4 is more than capable of charging @ 2000mA.
My question is why the devices have a 3A rating.

I'm not quite sure where your confusion lies. The equation looks like this, at the point where the output of the charger is hitting the maximum output, as stated by nitecore:

Output of ac-dc brick is: 5v * 3A = 15w.
Output of charger with 4 full slots is 4 (3.7v) * 1A = 14.8w
So the output of the charger is below the threshold of tolerance of the adapter.

 

[HigherStateD]

Where I Think the Confusion lies is that DJ Colonel Corn thinks that His QC Wall Charger is sending 5V @ 3 Amps (MAX) to his Battery Charger.

And that is Not what I think is going on.

What I think is happening is when DJ plugs his Wall Charger into the Battery Charger, the Wall Charger sends a "Handshake" and asks...

"Hi. Are you a QC Device?"

Then the Battery Charger replies... "I Sure Am!"

Then the QC Wall Charger says... "Cool! What is the Maximum Voltage you can handle?"

Then the Battery Charger replies... "12 Volts Please"

Then the QC Wall Charger says... "OK. 12 Volts coming right up"

And then QC starts sending 12 Volts @ 1.5 Amps or so.

Now, if the QC Wall Charger is plugged into a Non-QC Device, then when it Asks if the device is a QC Device, it gets No Reply. So the QC Wall Charge reverts to it's 5 Volt out put at a Maximum 3 Amps.

So all that Stuff about the QC Wall Charger having a Maximum of 3 Amps ONLY Applies when it is Outputting 5 Volts. And when the QC Wall Charger is Connected to DJ'd QC Capable Battery, it Isn't. It is sending 12 Volts to the Battery Charger. And the 12 Volts is at 1.5 Amps (or so).

This is Also why you see the Dual Input numbers in Specs for the UMS4 Battery Charger.

Input
DC 5V/2A 12V/1.5A
18W (MAX)

The Battery Charger will use 5V @ 2 Amps Input if you plug an Non-QC Wall Charger into it.
But will use 12V @ 1.5 Amps Input if it is connected to a QC Wall Charger.

---

On the Battery Charger:

I can see why the Maximum Single Slot Amperage is 3 Amps. Because the Battery Charger really Doesn't have Single Slots. It has Two Set of Dual Slots. Or 2 Lanes each made up of 2 Slots.

And if the Battery Charger allowed 3 Amps to flow thru Both Slots in a a Lane, then that would Exceed the 18 Watts that the Battery Charger can handle.

JMO after a Restless night of Little Sleep. And perhaps Too Much Coffee.

See, my thought is that it's similar to the confusion over amperage displays on most mods... It displays the coil side amperage, not the battery side. The 3A max of the adapter doesn't in anyway correlate to the 3.7v amperage of the two rails of the charger.

 

[zoiDman]

Where I Think the Confusion lies is that DJ Colonel Corn thinks that His QC Wall Charger is sending 5V @ 3 Amps (MAX) to his Battery Charger.

And that is Not what I think is going on.

What I think is happening is when DJ plugs his Wall Charger into the Battery Charger, the Wall Charger sends a "Handshake" and asks...

"Hi. Are you a QC Device?"

Then the Battery Charger replies... "I Sure Am!"

Then the QC Wall Charger says... "Cool! What is the Maximum Voltage you can handle?"

Then the Battery Charger replies... "12 Volts Please"

Then the QC Wall Charger says... "OK. 12 Volts coming right up"

And then QC starts sending 12 Volts @ 1.5 Amps or so.

Now, if the QC Wall Charger is plugged into a Non-QC Device, then when it Asks if the device is a QC Device, it gets No Reply. So the QC Wall Charge reverts to it's 5 Volt out put at a Maximum 3 Amps.

So all that Stuff about the QC Wall Charger having a Maximum of 3 Amps ONLY Applies when it is Outputting 5 Volts. And when the QC Wall Charger is Connected to DJ'd QC Capable Battery, it Isn't. It is sending 12 Volts to the Battery Charger. And the 12 Volts is at 1.5 Amps (or so).

This is Also why you see the Dual Input numbers in Specs for the UMS4 Battery Charger.

Input
DC 5V/2A 12V/1.5A
18W (MAX)

The Battery Charger will use 5V @ 2 Amps Input if you plug an Non-QC Wall Charger into it.
But will use 12V @ 1.5 Amps Input if it is connected to a QC Wall Charger.

---

On the Battery Charger:

I can see why the Maximum Single Slot Amperage is 3 Amps. Because the Battery Charger really Doesn't have Single Slots. It has Two Set of Dual Slots. Or 2 Lanes each made up of 2 Slots.

And if the Battery Charger allowed 3 Amps to flow thru Both Slots in a a Lane, then that would Exceed the 18 Watts that the Battery Charger can handle.

JMO after a Restless night of Little Sleep. And perhaps Too Much Coffee.

BTW - If DJ put one of these Inline USB Meters in between the QC Wall Charger and the Battery Charger...

... I feel Confident enough to bet @Mooch next Paycheck that it would read 12V @ 1.5 Amps (or so).

 

[HigherStateD]

I totally understand. This was more of a joke on my side- I'm partially too lazy to go into so much detail about batteries/ chargers (mainly due to price- If batteries were expensve i'd really explore the topic), and partially not concerned too much as I use only regulated mods, so chances of blowing up the batteries for me are rather small. If I was a mech user my approach would be totally different

The battery market being a grey market, and regulated mods only being as good as the engineering, I prefer to monitor the health of the 20700 30A 3000maH cell or two I place so close to my mouth. I also check the tires, signals, breaks and such before driving.

 

[PeterKay]

The battery market being a grey market, and regulated mods only being as good as the engineering, I prefer to monitor the health of the 20700 30A 3000maH cell or two I place so close to my mouth. I also check the tires, signals, breaks and such before driving.

Again, I totally understand. Thanks to this forum and my own online research, I managed to get my batteries from a trusted vendor.
I wasn't saying that i completely ignore battery safety- I check wraps, I am aware of Mooch's recommended CDR, and I never go past or even up to for the batteries I have.

The only exception for me was the AVB Avatar 21700 battery by Eleaf (?), that I treated like the values provided by the manufacturer were correct. Which I soon found out to be wrong with ECF memebers' help. But my mod didn't blow up

 

[Seiggy]

BTW2 - An Inline USB Meter is a Handy little Gadget to have.

I have a few from XTAR but my are rated at 4.5-6.0V 0-2.5A. I also don't have a QC wall charger.

 

[zoiDman]

Hey, vapers.

I recently purchased the Nitecore UMS4 charger, hoping to increase my charge time from my Nitecore UM4 charger.

The UMS4 is listed as pushing 2A per slot when charging two batteries.

This is curious because the unit itself, and the QC charger I'm using with it, are both 3 amps.

How can a 3A charger supply 2A per slot (4A) ?

Charging the batteries, I found the UMS4 to charge slower than my UM4 at 1.5A per slot.

I've followed all the directions, including using slot 2/4 or 1/3... I've tried two different QC chargers.... the box literally says '3A' charger on it..... so....

What is the story here. Is the battery meter giving false information, saying that the slots are receiving 2000mA each ? What do you think ?

Any comments will be appreciated. I've reached out to Nitecore via this forum, and was told to email customer service. Still haven't heard back.

Here's the post I created on their offical thread here: Nitecore UMS4 Intelligent USB Battery Charger

I'm charging 21700 batteries, Samsung 40T.

All the best !

From the Nitecore site...

UMS4

Input
DC 5V/2A 12V/1.5A
18W (MAX)

Output voltage
4.35V±1% / 4.2V±1% / 3.7V±1% / 1.48V±1%

Output current
QC Mode: 3,000mA*1 (MAX) 2,000mA*2 (MAX) 1,000mA*4 (MAX)
Standard Mode: 2,000mA*1 (MAX) 1,000mA*2 (MAX) 500mA*4 (MAX)

Compatible withIMR/Li-ion/LiFePO4: 10440, 14500, 14650, 16500, 16340(RCR123), 16650,
17350, 17500, 17650, 17670, 17700, 18350, 18490,
18500, 18650, 18700, 20700, 21700, 22500, 22650,
25500, 26500, 26650, 26700
Ni-MH/Ni-Cd: AA, AAA, AAAA, C, D

---

Maybe you are in "Standard Mode"?

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

Maybe you are in "Standard Mode"?

Yes, I have read all that data, also.
It only supports my argument that it can't be 2A per slot.
I AM on 'quick charge' mode.
I realize their site claims 2A per slot. However, I'm not getting those resutls.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes, I have read all that data, also.
It only supports my argument that it can't be 2A per slot.
I AM on 'quick charge' mode.
I realize their site claims 2A per slot. However, I'm not getting those resutls.

Not sure what is Going On? Maybe you got a Defective Charger?

How do you Power the Charger?

 

[zoiDman]

...

How do you Power the Charger?

BTW - This might have something to do with it...

Qualcomm's Quick Charge 2.0 technology explained

Because the USM4 Manual talks about QC 2.0 input. But I'm Not very familiar with this technology.

https://charger.nitecore.com/Uploads/FLASHLIGHTS/download/ums4.pdf

Maybe if @Mooch has some time, or someone else Familiar with "Quick Charging", the He/They can chime in on it.