Njoy files for bankruptcy

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BreSha6869

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And to think just two years ago they received funding valuing the company at 1 billion dollars !

If i recall correctly they were in talks to sell to Lorillard in 2012, before Lorillard bought Blu instead for $ 135 million.

It was always gonna be difficult for njoy to retain their market share when BT moved into the cigalike market in 2012/2013. Reynolds went from nothing to over 30% of the market in less than a year. Altria is making huge inroads too with their Mark Ten brand. BT has a huge built-in advantage with their distribution network and ddep pockets.
Almost an unfair advantage for BT. What is stopping them from threatening stores with no Marlboros, Camels, Winstons, etc. unless they sell their respective ecigs?

Hate to say it, but if I ran a big tobacco company (and the aforementioned was actually legal), I would fight for a certain percentage of ecigs being mandatory with every cigarette order.
 
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Mazinny

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Name recognition, even wider distribution networks, mailing lists to send coupons to. Tough to compete with for anyone.
Yup, if the FDA regs are struck down and there is still a striving open system market in 2018, they will likely dominate that market too imo. Ditto with the pod mod system.
 

Racehorse

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The controversy surrounding aspartame was a media sham

We didn't have much in the way of genome science, nutrigenomic science and DNA back then.

That is going to change.

Geneticists are seeing some interesting gene expression type things with this stuff (as well as with trans fats and monosodium gluatmate) now, but that is a subject for another topic.

Science is way more sophisticated now then it was then.
 
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Racehorse

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Yup, if the FDA regs are struck down and there is still a striving open system market in 2018, they will likely dominate that market too imo. Ditto with the pod mod system.

There are tons of new entries into the market, going on behind the scenes, including Nerudia w/ pharma grade ecig products, and other companies working on ecig models that will only work w/synthetic nicotine, and working on sythetic nic which is not made from tobacco, etc.

Vaping is not going to go away. It is going to grow very big, but it will be more highly technological and scientifically vetted, and ecigs will have touch screens and such. I'm looking forward to it.

As much as everybody in the "hobby" sector thinks we have sophisticated products now, I think most of these products are kinda like dinosaurs in a way, clunky and fiddly and really pretty elementary.

Just wait. :)
 
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Semiretired

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As much as everybody in the "hobby" sector thinks we have sophisticated products now, I think most of these products are kinda like dinosaurs in a way, clunky and fiddly and really pretty elementary.

Just remember it was not that many years ago when hard drives were mega drives when they were over 100mb... Go back a few more years - floppy drives were amazing and breaking 1mb memory you had a killer machine...
 

Mazinny

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Lessifer

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Just remember it was not that many years ago when hard drives were mega drives when they were over 100mb... Go back a few more years - floppy drives were amazing and breaking 1mb memory you had a killer machine...
Yes, now imagine that in order to release a new computer related product you had to perform hundreds of thousands of dollars in psychological testing(on top of R&D costs) in order to prove that your computer product was not likely to appeal to non computer users, and not likely to encourage computer users to continue using computers.
 

Mazinny

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There are tons of new entries into the market, going on behind the scenes, including Nerudia w/ pharma grade ecig products, and other companies working on ecig models that will only work w/synthetic nicotine, and working on sythetic nic which is not made from tobacco, etc.

Vaping is not going to go away. It is going to grow very big, but it will be more highly technological and scientifically vetted, and ecigs will have touch screens and such. I'm looking forward to it.

As much as everybody in the "hobby" sector thinks we have sophisticated products now, I think most of these products are kinda like dinosaurs in a way, clunky and fiddly and really pretty elementary.

Just wait. :)
Oh I don't doubt that there will be significant innovation in the market going forward. Progress will be uneven and there will be temporary setbacks, but innovation will continue. I also have no doubt that BT will have a large segment of the market in the future regardless of what direction this innovation takes us.

It's not a popular point of view on these boards, but i don't believe a majority of smokers will ever become the type of vapers we are, even in a completely unregulated market. Everyone drives a car, but only a small subsection become enthusiasts, rebuilding engines and modding their cars. I think simplicity of use, lack ( or ease ) of maintenance, and consistency in performance, are key in converting the majority of smokers. Vaping will really take off when we can consistently get the same satisfying vape with each and every puff with little to no preep work or maintenance required. We aren't close, but we will get there.
 
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Semiretired

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Yeah of course cost, but i believe the other factors are more important so long as cost is not ridiculous. I don't think the majority of smokers will ever diy and rebuild coils, rewick, etc .... regardless of savings.

Naw, but they could tax the lure out of existence. If you were looking at ecigs for the first time, but found that it was more expensive your desire to try would be hampered - remember it does not take much for a smoker to have an excuse not to quit...
 

Mazinny

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Naw, but they could tax the lure out of existence. If you were looking at ecigs for the first time, but found that it was more expensive your desire to try would be hampered - remember it does not take much for a smoker to have an excuse not to quit...
sorry i'm not quite sure what you are saying here. I agreed that cost is a factor, but my main point was that in order for the number of vapors to surpass smokers, cost is not the only or even primary issue. The majority of smokers don't find cigalikes satisfying, and they will never deal with the time and effort it takes to diy, rebuild and fiddle with the devices, as enthusiasts do. I am speaking from first hand experience with friends and family. I have pointed many unsatisfied cigalike users in the direction of our style of vaping. They just don't want to deal with the hassle.
 
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Semiretired

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The majority of smokers don't find cigalikes satisfying, and they will never deal with the time and effort it takes to diy, rebuild and fiddle with the devices, as enthusiasts do.

While I do DIY I would not be considered an enthusiast... My current PV is 4 yrs old and I am happy with it. I have backups waiting in line for this one to bite the dust. I can rebuild, but don't - not much at least.

What I was referring to was back when I first started looking into vaping. I was tired of wasting so much money on cartons of cigs. I researched for a long time first - what was available in the malls or the gas stationed did not interest me. Their costs were greater than cigs and I was not looking to go into further debt. I did not know the health benefits yet.

I found ECF - they helped me find my first PV - it only took a few days of being a member. We had to fiddle a lot back then, but I really wanted to quit - I survived. As I had been passing up the mall/gas station options due to costs - so will others. I wasn't having health problems at least not visible ones yet beyond heavy breathing when I exerted myself and I had already tried all the other methods of quitting.

I wanted to quit, but the option I tried had to be within certain cost factors and was going to work. There are many like me - I have gotten a lot of people to switch and many of them even quit vaping down the road, but none of them were going to on what was being offered in the gas stations... A lot of them had already tried them...
 

Mazinny

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While I do DIY I would not be considered an enthusiast... My current PV is 4 yrs old and I am happy with it. I have backups waiting in line for this one to bite the dust. I can rebuild, but don't - not much at least.

What I was referring to was back when I first started looking into vaping. I was tired of wasting so much money on cartons of cigs. I researched for a long time first - what was available in the malls or the gas stationed did not interest me. Their costs were greater than cigs and I was not looking to go into further debt. I did not know the health benefits yet.

I found ECF - they helped me find my first PV - it only took a few days of being a member. We had to fiddle a lot back then, but I really wanted to quit - I survived. As I had been passing up the mall/gas station options due to costs - so will others. I wasn't having health problems at least not visible ones yet beyond heavy breathing when I exerted myself and I had already tried all the other methods of quitting.

I wanted to quit, but the option I tried had to be within certain cost factors and was going to work. There are many like me - I have gotten a lot of people to switch and many of them even quit vaping down the road, but none of them were going to on what was being offered in the gas stations... A lot of them had already tried them...
Fair enough, we have had different experiences. Perhaps it has to do with the cost of cigarettes where we lived. A pack of cigarettes in NYC is $ 14. Any ecig is cheaper, cigalike or otherwise. The vast majority of smokers have tried vaping, most didn't stick with it. I don't believe cost was the reason for most of them, but perhaps i'm wrong. I have yet to speak to anyone who has told me they don't vape because it costs too much compared to smoking.
 

Semiretired

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Fair enough, we have had different experiences. Perhaps it has to do with the cost of cigarettes where we lived. A pack of cigarettes in NYC is $ 14. Any ecig is cheaper, cigalike or otherwise. The vast majority of smokers have tried vaping, most didn't stick with it. I don't believe cost was the reason for most of them, but perhaps i'm wrong. I have yet to speak to anyone who has told me they don't vape because it costs too much compared to smoking.

In our area cigarettes are still less than $5... $6 for premium brands...
 
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Mazinny

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In our area cigarettes are still less than $5... $6 for premium brands...
Yeah that explains somewhat why our experiences have been so different, and also partially why smoking rates are higher in the southeast of the country compared to the northeast.
 
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