No faith in Government!

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Bryce

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I'm so sick of not being able to trust anyone in politics. I get so mad when I think about it because I feel helpless to do anything about it. Sure I can vote and I do...but when it's one douche or another, what do you do? Sadly this distrust, at least for me, is in most institutions.

If trust can be repaired, which at this point I'm not sure it can, how would that happen? I hate thinking that it's always going to be this way or worse...ya know?

I am genuinely asking the #1 question on my mind lately. I've got a young family and a brand new baby girl. I know this thread will have many varying points of view but PLEASE, I'd really like some drama free answers here. Thanks!
 

coolone1

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I totally agree with you but a socialist government will only keep the powerful in power. I do not trust either party but I do not like what is happening and the direction this country is going. I grew up in the time you where you were told work hard and you will succeed. Now if you work hard for your family it will be taken away and given to some body else that doesn't want to work so every body will be "equal". I feel sorry for a young couple trying to do things right because we have a government that does not want you to be successful and will punish you if you are.
 

BradSmith

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I won't vote. I see no point in providing support for anyone who lies to me.

If you are lucky enough to have even a small amount of money to invest, I would suggest Junk silver coins. Silver is very much underpriced and if the stuff really hits the fan silver coins will make a great medium of exchange. Please don't live beyond your means. If at all possible do not put yourself into any debt. Just say no to credit cards and car loans. Do everything possible to be self relient. Put yourself first. Yes that's right, put yourself first. If you are not in a position to help your familly you are most likely taking up their resources, instead of being an asset you become a liability. So take care of yourself, be healthy and take responibility for what you can actually change. The rest is just a needless distraction. Turn off your TV or at least the news channels, it's all BS and it just ticks you off for no good reason.

Peace!
 

eric

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This is a great question. How do "We the People" get our unalienable rights back to where they should be?

If they're unalienable rights, then you already have them. Just ignore the makeshift restrictions imposed on them. If enough people do so, the restrictions will dissipate.
 

Bryce

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I grew up in the time you where you were told work hard and you will succeed. Now if you work hard for your family it will be taken away and given to some body else that doesn't want to work so every body will be "equal". I feel sorry for a young couple trying to do things right because we have a government that does not want you to be successful and will punish you if you are.

I don't know if they don't want me to be successful or if they're just more interested in their own success.

All I've got to say is: the 3 most important things I've found in life to be: 1) Love your family; 2) Treat your friends, (mankind), well; and 3) Don't waste your time. Everything else is just so much B.S.

Part of me really wants to believe this. I want to believe that if I work hard, love my family and treat people well that all the rest will sort itself out in the end, but what if it doesn't? What if people like you and me don't create change? I wouldn't know what the long term change I'm looking for would even look like. In the meantime I'll keep these wise words close by.

I won't vote. I see no point in providing support for anyone who lies to me.

Do everything possible to be self relient. Put yourself first. Yes that's right, put yourself first. If you are not in a position to help your familly you are most likely taking up their resources, instead of being an asset you become a liability. So take care of yourself, be healthy and take responibility for what you can actually change. The rest is just a needless distraction. Turn off your TV or at least the news channels, it's all BS and it just ticks you off for no good reason.

Peace!

I like the idea of self reliance Brad! It's the only thing that gives me some sense of control over the situation. Getting out of debt and starting a family garden has been two of the most fulfilling things we've ever done. I'll tell you though that what I like even more than self reliance is close community connection. Who knows how in the world to get that back though! Most of the time though I feel like I can't even trust my own neighbors. Some level of distrust seems to be at every level for me; neighbors, city council, companies, non-profits, governments, religious institutions...etc. and I'm desperately looking for a way through it for my little girl.
 

DaveP

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If you stand back and assess what's happening in America today, the triple class society is rapidly changing into just the have and the have not classes. There is the highly educated class and the under-educated class and by that, I mean the Ivy League graduates and the rest of us.

The backbone of the U.S. has always been the middle class technical and factory workers who designed and made the products that we sold to the world. Now, the technology has moved to emerging countries and we can't continue to compete with them and pay high wages, or so the party line goes. Japan was once the China of today and they built cheap goods and sold them to subsist. As their people became educated and more experienced in the business world, the quality of the goods increased and those goods commanded higher prices. That translated to higher wages and soon Japanese workers were on the same standard of living as U.S. workers,

The cycle will repeat with China as their people gain status in the World as efficient workers who make quality products. The problem is that there will always be another emerging country whose people will work for peanuts and the prices will fall again. The U.S. has had its heyday and needs to develop a means of generating income through technology again.

U.S. companies aren't necessarily doing bad. They are manufacturing goods overseas and reaping enormous profits. The problem is that Americans aren't getting paychecks from that end of the manufacturing process. At most, they are making money through related service industries such as package delivery, shipping and receiving, packaging, and warehousing of the products coming from other countries.

Now, the kicker! Education is key to survival. You have to look at what types of jobs are out there that pay the salary you'd like to receive and hit the books again and get the education to match the requirements! No longer will a high school education pay you more than $15 per hour. If you want a $30 or $40 per hour job, you have to have the credentials and the drive to land that job and keep it.

To stay on topic, there's always been an agenda in government and it changes with the leaders we elect. If you want to live in a Socialist society, then vote for the one who promises a "chicken in every pot" to quote Herbert Hoover. If you want fair government that remains a little closer to the words of the Constitution, vote for the one that says that we need smaller government, fewer social programs, and a balanced budget. I'm not sure who that is, but the theory is sound. We can't afford to continue to borrow money to fight wars with people who don't invade our shores and fund social programs that don't create a working class of people. I realize that no jobs equals a poor society, but a good leader will find a way to create jobs and sustain real growth in the economy.
 
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Bryce

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Why else would we have this problem in the first place? Too many people who just don't care.

Sure I'd say that's part of the problem. More than that though I think that there are a lot of people like us who can't stand things as they are but have no clue how to change things from where we live. Even if only a few have spoken up, I know this discontent is brewing deeply.

If you stand back and assess what's happening in America today, the triple class society is rapidly changing into just the have and the have not classes. There is the highly educated class and the under-educated class and by that, I mean the Ivy League graduates and the rest of us.

The backbone of the U.S. has always been the middle class technical and factory workers who designed and made the products that we sold to the world. Now, the technology has moved to emerging countries and we can't continue to compete with them and pay high wages, or so the party line goes. Japan was once the China of today and they built cheap goods and sold them to subsist. As their people became educated and more experienced in the business world, the quality of the goods increased and those goods commanded higher prices. That translated to higher wages and soon Japanese workers were on the same standard of living as U.S. workers,

The cycle will repeat with China as their people gain status in the World as efficient workers who make quality products. The problem is that there will always be another emerging country whose people will work for peanuts and the prices will fall again. The U.S. has had its heyday and needs to develop a means of generating income through technology again.

U.S. companies aren't necessarily doing bad. They are manufacturing goods overseas and reaping enormous profits. The problem is that Americans aren't getting paychecks from that end of the manufacturing process. At most, they are making money through related service industries such as package delivery, shipping and receiving, packaging, and warehousing of the products coming from other countries.

Now, the kicker! Education is key to survival. You have to look at what types of jobs are out there that pay the salary you'd like to receive and hit the books again and get the education to match the requirements! No longer will a high school education pay you more than $15 per hour. If you want a $30 or $40 per hour job, you have to have the credentials and the drive to land that job and keep it.

To stay on topic, there's always been an agenda in government and it changes with the leaders we elect. If you want to live in a Socialist society, then vote for the one who promises a "chicken in every pot" to quote Herbert Hoover. If you want fair government that remains a little closer to the words of the Constitution, vote for the one that says that we need smaller government, fewer social programs, and a balanced budget. I'm not sure who that is, but the theory is sound. We can't afford to continue to borrow money to fight wars with people who don't invade our shores and fund social programs that don't create a working class of people. I realize that no jobs equals a poor society, but a good leader will find a way to create jobs and sustain real growth in the economy.

Where is he or she? Where are the ones who will actually be different and not just say they are? I'm part of the under educated working class you mentioned that depends on those Ivy League graduates. Wow what a horrible realization.

Economics are certainly part of it. I suppose if I felt a little more prosperous perhaps I would be satiated enough to keep my opinions to myself. To me though that's not the whole problem. I'm happy to work hard and don't expect anything to be given to me.

Thanks for this really thoughtful reply Dave. It opened my eyes a little wider. Still no answer for me though. What I'm hoping to find is restored faith and trust. I don't know how to make that happen.

Not sure when we moved to economics. I was more concerned with the direction of our political standing as a nation. We're not "We the people" anymore, we're "We the over ruled and undecided".

That's a really big part of the issue for me too naviathan. All of these things though are tied together. We are talking about the state of society. I appreciated daves thoughtfulness regarding some related issues that I hadn't really considered yet. Thanks for your take too...I think it's incredibly relevant to my/our need or desire to trust again.
 

DaveP

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Not sure when we moved to economics. I was more concerned with the direction of our political standing as a nation. We're not "We the people" anymore, we're "We the over ruled and undecided".

As I read what I posted, I realized that I didn't say anything about electing leaders. Check the last paragraph of my previous post (edited).

As far as the ranking of the U.S. in the World, we are still number one in manufacturing, soon to be overtaken by China in 2011. I think, for a nation of our size, we are among the best in terms of living standards and freedom, even today. The CIA Factbook shows us as a neck and neck number 2 in Gross Domestic Product, only marginally behind the EU, but that encompasses an entire continent! In per capita income, we are #11.

Where we are really hurting is in unemployment. We are #111 with 9.3% out of work, two places above Greece. In terms of M1 or money supply, we are 4th behind China, Japan, and the EU.

Faith in our country stems from the climate our leaders create. We receive news today that isn't filtered as it was 50 years ago. If a political leader says a bad word, it's out on the internet in 10 minutes, provided someone had their cellphone in video mode when it happened. That kind of thing is hard to control and creates lots of doubt in the minds of the listeners. In the days of Kennedy and Nixon, there was time to build a story that sounded good on the news. Now, our leaders stay in reactive mode much of the time.

Political discussions used to be at lunch and around the water cooler. Now look at how we discuss these things. We have access to a lot of information we'd be better off not knowing. It's depressing at times, but the facts still point to the fact that we are in much better shape than 9/10ths of the World.
 
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naviathan

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True, economics plays a huge role in Government and politics. It's sad that we must have a separation of church and state, but not of Wall Street and state? I would be far more concerned with large corporations and their influence over our Government than I would with whether or not our kids have to hear any mention God in school.

On the most basic of levels religion is a moral compass. It's absence in our schools and government has unquestionably effected our society in a negative way.

Ok I side tracked, sorry. How about a modern Civil War? Any thoughts on how it will be played out?
 

DaveP

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True, economics plays a huge role in Government and politics. It's sad that we must have a separation of church and state, but not of Wall Street and state? I would be far more concerned with large corporations and their influence over our Government than I would with whether or not our kids have to hear any mention God in school.

On the most basic of levels religion is a moral compass. It's absence in our schools and government has unquestionably effected our society in a negative way.

Ok I side tracked, sorry. How about a modern Civil War? Any thoughts on how it will be played out?

In today's world not as many people actually profess to believe in God. Personally, the more I discover about the universe, the more I believe that there's a higher power, however we choose to understand it, and "We ain't it!". We represent a tiny, insignificant, speck of dust in cosmic terms and I refuse to believe that in a space the size of all of creation (some 14.6 billion light years across) that we are the rulers. There's more out there. It was just designed so that we can't get to it. The nearest star is 6.5 light years away, 6.5 years traveling at 186,282 miles per SECOND. We are alone in our little speck of the universe with no technological expertise to get to the next possible community.

As far as a civil uprising is concerned, we are far less equipped than our early American forefathers. It will have to be a political struggle, IMO.

Public education is a sore spot with me. There are many very intelligent students in our schools, but the pass rate among the average students is appalling. Too many of our young people have no desire to excel and most couldn't tell you who the Vice President is off the top of their head, much less the Speaker of the House. Ask one of today's young people to add two numbers in their head or make change. I know, they have a calculator in their smartphone, but some things are just basic and everyone needs to know how to do math without a computer.
 
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naviathan

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Funny you should mention the level of education our students are receiving today. Recently I was discussing this very subject with some friends. While checking out at the grocery store I handed the girl a $20. She punched it into the register wrong and couldn't calculate the correction in her head. She proceeded to void the entire transaction and rescan everything (which thankfully wasn't much) then re-enter the amount properly. After this whole fiasco I told her she could have simply given me back X amount of change and it would have balanced out, which of course earned me a very sharp look. The girl had to be 18 at least. This seems to be a going trend after talking with other people about it. Kids today just don't care and society is allowing them to get by. I know a kid in the Marine Corps who still can't read properly and barely does math. He never passed his ASVAB, but was allowed in to be a truck driver anyway. He continuously justifies himself by saying he "just never was any good at that". How do you graduate High School without having even enough basic knowledge to pass the ASVAB!?!?
 

Bryce

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True, economics plays a huge role in Government and politics. It's sad that we must have a separation of church and state, but not of Wall Street and state? I would be far more concerned with large corporations and their influence over our Government than I would with whether or not our kids have to hear any mention God in school.

On the most basic of levels religion is a moral compass. It's absence in our schools and government has unquestionably effected our society in a negative way.

Ok I side tracked, sorry. How about a modern Civil War? Any thoughts on how it will be played out?

My faith and trust in corporations is even less than it is in Government. I have even less insight and ability to be involved in their dealings.

Ideally I suppose I'd like there to be a universally accepted standard of treating and dealing with people. Since that is unlikely I should probably move on.

I think that spirituality can play a part in restoring our faith and trust in these organizations, but that's only for a portion of the population. It's not the whole solution because there are plenty of amazing folks with perfectly operational moral compasses that believe there is no God, or perhaps believe differently than the church would like. Oh and please don't think that Churches are exempt from my, "organizations in whom I have little faith" list.

I'd really like to have my/our faith and trust repaired. I'm starting to wonder if as a nation, it ever existed. I can't thank you guys enough for weighing in and continuing to talk this through with me. I think it means a lot to a lot of folks. Who knows what we might come up with. In that I'm hopeful.
 

naviathan

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I understand that a spiritual following doesn't make or break a moral compass. However it does seem that when it was a more pronounced part of society, whether you believed or not, you still questioned the destination of your eternal soul. I know many people who have a hard time believing in a higher power, but have a solid moral compass. A few have even said they might not believe, but why test the theory with no possibility of reprieve? Basically if they live right they have a better chance if they're wrong and haven't lost anything if they're right.

Your ideal standard of treating others is what I use to believe religion was about. I wasn't always a man of faith. Back then I use to think that religions were created to keep the general masses in check through "The Fear of God". I was a bit of an anarchist when I was a teenager, but I still tried to treat others fairly. You attract more flies with honey than you do with arsenic.

I believe we will reinstate our government in the coming years. That will rebuild the faith of our country in our government. My idea of a modern civil war doesn't involve fire arms. It involves careful planning and movements similar to a long game of chess. Over the next 5 years I can see politicians being replaced one by one with a younger generation of "We the People" believers intent on putting things back the way they once were. Only time will tell though.
 

DaveP

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I sometimes wonder what we don't know about the state of our federal finances. I'm sure are people in the department of the treasury who know a few things we would not want to hear. I'm also very disappointed in our banking industry and our government allowing the mortgage crisis to approach total ruin before calling a halt to the shenanigans that were going on. It's just another reason why we can't afford to have everyone in home ownership. Too many homes depend on two incomes to pay the mortgage and the bills. Our grandparents did just fine in homes that were too small by today's standards. Nowadays, we think that we need a media room, a 3 car garage, and stainless steel designer appliances to keep up with the guy next door and 3000 square feet heated on a 5 acre lot. Lose an income and that house belongs to the next couple who can swing the loan.

Any large organization is full of the same problems that plaque government. I'm retired from a multi-national corporation that once was in the Forbes top 10 companies in terms of profitability. You get tired of hearing about this year's plan to take us back to the top and you know after hearing it that there's a lot of lip service in the details. Corporations exist for one reason primarily and that's profit. Every decision they make is based on a projected bottom line. If it's also good for the customer, so be it, but there are few decisions made that provide the customer with a benefit that don't also involve cost benefits or increased revenue.

I haven't seen a batting average list of the current administration's wins and losses, but I'd bet that Obama is somewhere in the bush leagues right now. His batting average and voter confidence levels are dwindling daily. Not that George Bush was anywhere near Ronald Reagan, but he fared better than the present leadership. I'm not a liberal by any means, but I enjoyed the Clinton presidency and the economic upturn that accompanied it. The Dot Com era was a great time to be alive. I wonder what the next big thing will be. We surely need something. Maybe it will be a breakthrough in quantum theory that gives us cold fusion and we can kiss oil goodbye.

Enough rambling.
 
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