No point using sub Ohm coils on a VW mod?

[EazyDuz]

I've yet to buy a VW mod but i will be soon. However the outcome of this thread will dictate which one i go for.
Ive been looking at a few:

MVP 3 Pro (60w mod)
Itaste 50w mod
Coolfire 4 40w mod
Kanger subbox Mini

For arguments sake lets say you have a 0.5ohm stock coil in an Isub G tank on the Istick 50w. You also have a 2ohm stock coil for it.
The mod is capable of supplying 50w to both the 0.5 ohm coil and the 2ohm coil. 50w is 50w right? So what, if any, is the benefit of putting a sub ohm coil in the VW mod?
The manufacturers market them as sub ohm mods, but why go sub ohm if the device is capable of the same wattage on a 1+ohm coil, the experience would be the same?

Which leads me to a similar question. Would any VW mod from say 30w capable to 60w capable basically give the exact same experience for the majority of users assuming the same tank is fitted?

I'm quite new to this but i hope my question is understandable
Thanks

 

[Equilibrium]

You're actually defeating the purpose of the regulated devise when using low ohm coils. Depends on the voltage threshold of the devise though.

.5 ohm @ 50 w = 5 v
1.5 ohm @ 50 w = 8.67 v
2.0 ohm @ 50 w = 10 v

Just saying....

 

[alicewonderland]

Can you elaborate on how the coils are different and how that difference affects the vaping experience at the same wattage?

Well, i found out i never really understood subohming til i delved further into coil making. I started doing more intricate coils such as clapton coils, i make claptons then wrap them in parallel with thick 22-24g wire, and they naturally come out to sub-ohm resistance levels. The coil though, has more surface area and nooks and crannies for juice to lay on/wick/seep onto, holding more juice initially on firing, producing nearly instant thick vapor at high wattages. With 10+wraps on higher gauge wire in a simpler coil that ends up to 1.0+ohms, I find the wire is too thin, sure there is enough surface area but it is more flat and tastes funky whether it be how the juice vaporizes on it or how the juice wicks to it, the simpler high gauge coils just heat up way too fast and basically nuke-burn the juice.

 

[RandyF]

Using regulated mods.....

35 watts applied to a .05Ω coil = 4.2v (equivalent to a mech at full strength)
35 watts applied to a 1.2Ω coil = 6.5v (way more than most would vape at)

What this means is you can build larger coils and apply more voltage at lower watts. Larger coils will cover more surface of the wick, which give more flavor and vapor.

Regulated > mech

I build my STm's at 1.2Ω, at 23 watts (5.2v) the vape is great.

 

[roxynoodle]

You're actually defeating the purpose of the regulated devise when using low ohm coils. Depends on the voltage threshold of the devise though.

.5 ohm @ 50 w = 5 v
1.5 ohm @ 50 w = 8.67 v
2.0 ohm @ 50 w = 10 v

Just saying....

Exactly, and very few mods go to 10v. So a 50W mod can't fire every coil at 50W. However, I don't think you would enjoy vaping a 2ohm coil at 50W anyway.

However, you might enjoy vaping it at more than the 4.2v you would get with a fresh battery on a mech. A 2 ohm coil would be a poor vape on a mech very quickly. Which is why vw would be a superior choice for that build.

Honestly, I only subohm on regulated devices with dual/tri coil builds, and I still build at a higher resistance if I'm using a regulated mod. While 10v is just way too much for me for an enjoyable vape, 4.7v may be fantastic.

 

[alicewonderland]

Thanks. I'm talking about pre made stock coils though as i have no interest in building my own.
So two stock Isub coils, one at 0.5 and the other at 2 would be made significantly differently then? The 0.5 coil will have more surface area resulting in a thicker, instant vape?

i duno try it out. different people like different things. I find I like 0.5ohm coils on tanks better than 1.0+ coils. I find I like the warmth of vapor in the subohm ohm coils. to get that same warmth of vape on 1.5+ohm or higher coils, I'd have to put more watts into it and then it just starts tasting gross to me.

I couldn't get warm vapor with high resistance coils, I could always get vapor+clouds, but not the warmth without it tasting awful. I try to get as close as I can to that cigarette smoking feeling and the warmth was what I could never get with higher resistance coils.

 

[Visus]

@DanJiblets
Thats a great price for a known name brand temp control and wow an atomizer included 5k mah batt wow..
NICE!

 

[yuseffuhler]

I feel like a broken record posting this lol. But I just ordered this one today,just came out and worth a look.
eVic-VT Full Kit by JoyeTech $69.99

Looks like it actually has a seperate mode for titanium. Nice. I'll wait until other people get em so I know how to fix mine lol.

 

[alicewonderland]

50w is 50w yeah, but the coil is different.

 

[EazyDuz]

50w is 50w yeah, but the coil is different.

Can you elaborate on how the coils are different and how that difference affects the vaping experience at the same wattage?

 

[Equilibrium]

I've found that I got the best vape at ~ 1.0 - 1.5 ohm when using a high wattage devise. The voltage stays up.

 

[bluecat]

I do it. I use a Smok VCT on a Smok M50.

I typically enjoy a Kayfun clone at 1.9ish ohms at 8.5W around 3.7v just from math in my head. When I use the dual coil from the VCT @ .5 ohms, I get 18 watts. Really too much for me but I enjoy it occasionally. The M50 cannot buck, so it delivers 3 volts even when set at 8.5 watts. This will give you 18 watts.

 

[EazyDuz]

Using regulated mods.....

35 watts applied to a .05Ω coil = 4.2v (equivalent to a mech at full strength)
35 watts applied to a 1.2Ω coil = 6.5v (way more that most would vape at)

What this means is you can build larger coils and apply more voltage at lower watts. Larger coils will cover more surface of the wick, which give more flavor and vapor.

Regulated > mech

Well, i found out i never really understood subohming til i delved further into coil making. I started doing more intricate coils such as clapton coils, i make claptons then wrap them in parallel with thick 22-24g wire, and they naturally come out to sub-ohm resistance levels. The coil though, has more surface area and nooks and crannies for juice to lay on/wick/seep onto, holding more juice initially on firing, producing nearly instant thick vapor at high wattages. With 10+wraps on higher gauge wire in a simpler coil that ends up to 1.0+ohms, I find the wire is too thin, sure there is enough surface area but it is more flat and tastes funky whether it be how the juice vaporizes on it or how the juice wicks to it, the simpler high gauge coils just heat up way too fast and basically nuke-burn the juice.

Thanks. I'm talking about pre made stock coils though as i have no interest in building my own.
So two stock Isub coils, one at 0.5 and the other at 2 would be made significantly differently then? The 0.5 coil will have more surface area resulting in a thicker, instant vape?

 

[RandyF]

Thanks. I'm talking about pre made stock coils though as i have no interest in building my own.

Same rules apply. The Sub Tank for example offers a 1.2Ω coil.

 

[alicewonderland]

plus theres also that whole thing where an atomizer can only fit a certain size of coil. I dislike working with 28gauge or higher as its too springy, I work with 24gauge mainly.

 

[Ohm Gnome]

For pre built sub ohm coils I much prefer regulated mods. I favor the Herakles. On a typical tube mech the .2 coils for the Herakles are too hot but the .6 coil doesn't get enough power to get a good vape because it's better with higher watts then the .2. Now of course RDAs and RTAs are different. Also pre built coils tend to perform better if you break them in slowly with lower watts then gradually increasing watts. That can't be done with a mech.

 

[jersey_emt]

Using regulated mods.....

35 watts applied to a .05Ω coil = 4.2v (equivalent to a mech at full strength)
35 watts applied to a 1.2Ω coil = 6.5v (way more than most would vape at)

What this means is you can build larger coils and apply more voltage at lower watts. Larger coils will cover more surface of the wick, which give more flavor and vapor.

Regulated > mech

I build my STm's at 1.2Ω, at 23 watts (5.2v) the vape is great.

35 W applied to a 0.05 Ω coil = 1.3 V
35 W applied to a 0.5 Ω coil = 4.2 V

 

[UncleChuck]

Here's the problem with higher resistance coils as I see it:

When vaping at higher power levels the coil needs a larger surface area. So, the "traditional" higher resistance coils made of 30-34g wire won't work at all, they are just too thin and don't provide enough surface area or wire mass. You can add a ton more wraps, but then your resistance goes way up, which causes issues with reaching the set power level since the mod will have to boost voltage even more. And the coil is still very thin, and burns a lot hotter than most people want.

So, when vaping at high power levels it's best to stick with at the very least 28g, although 24 or 26 is going to handle the power better and be easier to work with. Sure, you can make a 2.0 ohm 26g coil at run it at 30w, but probably not 50. And what happens if you have a dual coil device? Are you going to wrap a pair of 4ohm coils using thick wire? You quickly get to a scenario where the coils get so giant they can't fit into the atty anymore, and even if they could they would have way too much wire mass

It's not impossible to make a higher resistance build that performs well at high power, but the most simple way to make a high-wattage build is with thick wire. A very basic dual coil with 24g can be good to 80+ watts, and will be well into sub-ohm territory. Making something in the 2ohm range that is good to 80w is a lot more difficult, and what's the point of over complicating builds just so you avoid going past some arbitrary resistance level?

It's the set power level on APVs that determine amp draw. If you have your device set to 80W it doesn't matter what the resistance of the coil is, 80W of power can only be produced by the internal battery with a given current draw. On mechs the resistance level determines current, on APVs it's the power level that determines current, so you aren't saving anything buy avoiding sub-ohm builds.

 

[Visus]

@Alicenwonderland
Nailed it for my experience I like .2-1ohm coils 24-28ga kanthal.
I used to use only nichrome, I hate nichrome now.

Its the warmth of the vape I vape 30-80watts everyday. If I used 30ga I guess I could go lower than 30watts but will miss flavor a lot as coil surface area is minimal.. Not bad but no where near a 8 wrap 26ga at 1 ohm and 30-80 watts lol..

 

[Thrasher]

I always see these arguments about thinner high g wire and surface area and wonder why no one uses ribbon anymore.

28 g ribbon is approx 1 mm wide so 6 wraps for 1 ohm is almost 6 mm, that's like what 10-11 wraps of round?

Wicked results with almost no power, love it in my drippers on a mech.

.its funny how something becomes popular (huge low r coils) and somehow things that work just as good or better get forgotten