No such thing as an ex-smoker

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jimmyh

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I believe smoking is an addiction, either the nic or hand to mouth. I will always be labeled an exsmoker versus a non smoker. I also think that if its hand to mouth, that is still very much a smoking habit. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy not to be smoking, I feel great now compared to a couple of month ago, but if they took my vape devices away I probably would be back on the death sticks.
 

MP2012

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I feel great now compared to a couple of month ago, but if they took my vape devices away I probably would be back on the death sticks.

This is an excellent line to try and explain what I am saying. I honestly believe that vaping, whilst being lovely and a true life saving invention, it is also a mask, an alternative route if you like.

If they banned vaping tomorrow I believe 75-80% of vapers would become smokers again and the rest would wish they were deep down (unless you are one of those weird ones who has only ever vaped and never smoked).

So yes, I reiterate, ex-smokers don't exist, they are just people who choose NOT to smoke.
 

mightymen

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    Lets see now, I'm 68 years old now. Haven't had sex in 15 years ( I'm I a ex-user? ) use to be a daily user. Couldn't get away from it. It was always near by :evil: tempting me. I had to have it one more time then one more time again. I just couldn't get far enough away from sex to quit I tryed many quit programs none of them worked for long, I had a monkey on my back it was just to easy to get.
    My family members refused/wouldn't help me. There said if I wanted to stop I could. I went for help to my church/hospital/doctor/gov't noone could help me!
    I'm I still a sex addict or a ex-sex addict. Hum...
    Oh no, I'm so tied of hiding and not telling the truth, will this ever end?
     

    hcour

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    I agree ex-smokers are addicts and thus there is some truth to what the OP is saying, in the same way as alcoholics say they're always alcoholics, even if they haven't had a drink for years. I've quit smoking several times in my life, sometimes for years, but always gone back to them.

    I've never had an easier time quitting and staying off the cigs than I have with vaping, which is wonderful. However, I do think there is one downside, at least for me, and it's ironic because that downside is precisely what makes vaping so effective, which is the similarity of the vaping experience to the smoking experience. After quitting smoking with virtually no problem in August, in November I started having dehydration issues and decided I needed to quit vaping for a while until I figured how to deal with that issue. I didn't last one day before I went out and bought some Newports and took up my smoking habit right where I'd left off. Even knowing I planned to get back to vaping ASAP, the urges were just too strong - the nic, the hand-to-mouth action, the triggers - they hadn't diminished at all because they were all maintained with my vaping habit. So, as I said, there is a certain irony there. And unlike so many others, I didn't find the cigs unpleasant in any way, I enjoyed them pretty much as I always did.

    Of course, this was only after a few months of vaping, and if it'd been a longer period I may have had a completely different experience. But, truthfully I don't think so. Because, as the OP says, once a smoker always a smoker, and I believe 2-5-10 yrs from now if our perhaps well-intentioned but oft-times misguided government bans ecigs then I'm pretty darn certain that I will go back to smoking, and quicker and with greater need to do so than those times I quit previously without the vaping "crutch".

    I'm not trashing vaping, I absolutely love everything about it and these last six months of vaping has been one of the most extraordinary experiences of my life. I never would have believed I could quit smoking - cold-turkey! - with such ease and with virtually no physical, psychological, or emotional repercussions. But I do think it's a substitute, not exactly a "cure", for smoking, and thus the subject heading of this thread is something which at least some of us should be aware.

    One other thing - I smoked again for only a few weeks and now I'm back to vaping and off the smokes for a month and quitting again was just as easy as it was the first time. While I was smoking I did not enjoy it as much as vaping, the entire time I was looking forward to getting back to my beloved Provari, all my wonderful flavors, and the physical and psychological health benefits of vaping vs smoking. As I wrote elsewhere: When I first started vaping, it was a substitute for smoking; then, when I couldn't vape, the smoking was a substitute for vaping. Now, I'm back to what I truly enjoy the most - putting a T3 on my Provari and firing up some oh-so-tasty strawberry-chocolate juice!
     
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    bunksteve

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    May well have been true before vaping as we know it was recently discovered as a true alternative :)

    Den

    Not to be argumentative...

    Sure, but to be fair, what is vaping? Something we use to avoid smoking. Granted, it's fun and very pleasurable and sometimes feels like you found the cheat codes to life... But essentially we are avoiding it.
     

    Algernon

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    A better wording would be:

    "Some ex-smokers will always be ex-smokers."

    We vapers have been given a viable alternative.

    If anything, we'll "always be ex-vapers" if we ever quit this. I enjoy vaping far more than I ever enjoyed smoking. If I go back to anything by quitting anything, it would be vaping, not smoking.
     

    DC2

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    From my own experience as a heavy smoker for over 30 years I can honestly say that the cigarette is just playing tricks with your mind until it drags you straight back in to where you left off!
    Cigarettes have absolutely no power over me anymore.
    For me, that is part of the fun of having one.
     

    I Shall Not Recant

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    So yes, I reiterate, ex-smokers don't exist, they are just people who choose NOT to smoke.
    I agree with you to an extent in that the MAJORITY of ex-smokers probably are smokers who chose not to smoke but no way can it be stated as an absolute. We are all different and there ARE people who can walk away from it.

    But I have to point out that your your argument doesn't make that much sense. Used to smoke but chooses not to = ex-smoker. What else would you call them?
    So Mr Blahdeblah, are you a smoker or a non smoker?
    I'm a choose not to smoker.

    It comes down to definition and by definition an ex-smoker is a person who has battled addiction and at this time of their life has managed not to succumb to temptation. It does not necessarily mean that they have completely lost all the traits of their addiction.
    Actually, I say "by definition an ex-smoker" but I don't think there actually is a dictionary definition of ex-smoker.
    The definition of smoker is 'person who smokes tobacco' so the term ex implies that they used to be a smoker but no longer. Once again though, this does not imply that they don't have urges.

    I've come to the conclusion that the term ex-smoker is a fallacy, it doesn't exist. Once you are a smoker you will always be one. You may be choosing not to smoke, you may be vaping as opposed to smoking, but in the background, in a tiny piece of your brain, right in the back of your mind, you remember the good smokes.
    Ex-smoker isn't a fallacy. Ex-smokers are allowed to have urges for a smoke, it is the very fact that they still choose not to that makes them ex-smokers.

    BTW I do not consider myself an ex-smoker yet, even though I haven't had a cigarette in over a year because if I couldn't vape I'd smoke and I know it.
     

    DC2

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    By the way, I said I was never addicted to nicotine.
    I'm sure most don't believe that, and that's okay as I'm not trying to convince anyone.

    But regardless, in spite of not being addicted to nicotine, I definitely consider myself a smoker.
    I had every intention of enjoying the act of smoking until my last breath.

    The only reason I don't smoke now is because I have the alternative of vaping available to me.
    If vaping was taken away I would be smoking again without question.
     

    DC2

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    I agree with you to an extent in that the MAJORITY of ex-smokers probably are smokers who chose not to smoke but no way can it be stated as an absolute. We are all different and there ARE people who can walk away from it.
    If there is one thing I've learned from reading this forum for years, it is that nicotine affects people differently.

    There are people who can wean off the nicotine quickly and easily.
    And then there are those that struggle if they even try to drop a little.
    And then there are those that can drop fairly quickly until they get to a certain point, and then it becomes a struggle.

    There are even people that have dropped the nicotine immediately, without really missing it.
    Although that latter group is pretty darn rare around here where most were long-time hardcore smokers.
     

    Leatherneck

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    My question is......why do you care? Unless your filling out a health care questionnaire, why do you care? I smoked for 20+ years. Now i dont. What else matters?
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    I'm with this guy. We could rationalize any kind of labelling we want, really. Is a vaper an ex-smoker who just chooses not to smoke? Eh, maybe. But by that logic isn't a non-smoker just someone who hasn't started smoking yet? What you call yourself doesn't much matter. It's what you do from here that matters.
     

    grandmato5

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    By the way, I said I was never addicted to nicotine.
    I'm sure most don't believe that, and that's okay as I'm not trying to convince anyone.

    But regardless, in spite of not being addicted to nicotine, I definitely consider myself a smoker.
    I had every intention of enjoying the act of smoking until my last breath.

    The only reason I don't smoke now is because I have the alternative of vaping available to me.
    If vaping was taken away I would be smoking again without question.

    Totally believe that you are one of those people that were never addicted to nicotine. My hubby was one of them. He smoked for 25 years when he felt like it. The day he decided he didn't feel like doing that anymore he simply stopped.

    I'm one of those people that wasn't addicted to the nicotine either, although I didn't realize it my last few years of smoking. I was addicted to the additives in the cigarettes. When I broke the addiction to the additives by vaping my addiction to the nicotine was gone. But like you DC I loved smoking. The actions of smoking are very relaxing for me. I enjoy some nicotine sometimes like other people enjoy an occasional good cup of full strength caffeine coffee :D
     

    JudeD

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    Before vaping, I was a smoker who took occasional breaks from smoking, sometimes for months. Even when I had quit for a long time, I still wanted a smoke, still longed for one when I saw people smoking in movies or on the street. I still thought about them and played the "I could just have one, for old time's sake" game with myself. I would reach for the pack without thinking about it, long after I had given them up. The "You've Come A Long Way, Baby" chick was sitting on my shoulder whispering, "You know you want me" in my ear most of the time. I've never been into chicks, but she was right, I wanted her. Badly.

    Then I started vaping. I only did it as an option to use when I couldn't have a smoke. I tried it, thought, "This could work for me," and found myself picking the PV up more often than I reached for my cigs. The chick was still whispering, but it was growing faint. After only two days, I realized that there were only a couple of cigs missing from my pack and I didn't care. I wasn't forcing myself to vape while desperately wanting a cig the way it had been with all the other quit-smoking methods I'd tried before. In fact, I wasn't trying to quit at all, which is probably part of the reason it was so mindblowingly easy. On the third day, I picked up my PV with my morning coffee and that chick fell off my shoulder and into the dirty ashtray and stayed there. She's been there for eight months.

    The difference is, I don't have cravings for cigs. I don't think about cigs endlessly like I did the other times I stopped smoking. I don't miss running to the store at midnight because I've just realized I only have a couple left and I need a new pack. I just open my drawer and pull out a new bottle of juice or a new atty head. I don't miss the perfume, breath mints, and hair perfume I used to cover myself in to try to mask the smell. I don't miss the dirty ashtrays and smelly bags of trash the ashtrays were emptied into. I walk by people who are smoking now and although I always smile at them because I remember how it felt to be treated like a pariah, I hate the smell. It used to make me long for a cig. Now it makes me feel sick. I used to feel panicked on long flights or in places where I couldn't smoke. Now, just knowing that I could vape if I needed to means I don't need to and I don't feel panic.

    The fact that I have zero desire to ever smoke a cig again means I'm no longer a smoker. That hold smoking had on me for decades is completely gone. If vaping is outlawed, I won't miss smoking, I'll miss vaping. I'm not stocking up on cartons of cigs in case the laws change; I'm stocking up on vaping supplies. I was just recently stranded without my vape gear and stopped at four stores trying to find a disposable. All of those stores sold cigs but buying a pack never entered my mind. I was looking for something I could vape because I'm a vaper, not a smoker.

    I'm a vaper, not a smoker.
     

    Jman8

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    As someone who is not now, and never was addicted to nicotine, I have a different perspective.

    You don't vape nicotine, regularly?
    With text, my tone may not be coming across. I am surprised by this assertion, but simply don't know and am curious if you are a vaper. It is plausible to me to be a vaper, but not be an addict. Though implausible to vape nicotine regularly (or heavily) and not be an addict.

    I am quite certain that for many people SMOKING is the addiction, and nicotine just happens to be in there.

    I would say smoking (like vaping) is a habit. Nicotine, the drug, is where the addiction comes in.

    But if it was about the nicotine, the patches and the gum would work.
    But they don't work.

    How are you using "work" in the above statements. I believe they do have some success ratio around them in terms of (some) people feeling little to no cravings for tobacco smoke while using them. I have personally met 2 people who chewed the gum. Both did it for well past 6 months and no issue with their choice to do so.

    I have not done either, but not cause I don't think they would work. I just prefer to go cold turkey when desire for nicotine is no longer there (and I'm committed to overcoming the addiction).

    If you were off nicotine for eight years, why would you still dream about smoking?
    Unless maybe it was smoking you really missed, and not the nicotine?

    I missed the habit, the rituals, the cool factor, while also being quite content over the pros that come from being free of the habit / addiction. For sure the nicotine had left my body after sometime, early on I reckon. During my waking moments, by around 9 months into the first year, the cravings were down to occurring in the neighborhood of once a year, maybe less.

    I'm not sure I can tell you, for sure, why I dream about anything I dream about. I do think dreaming, at a fundamental level, is about self deception, but also about desires working themselves out at an emotional level when the mind is at rest (and more willing to not have other agendas interfere).

    I think for many people it is simply the act of smoking that is missing.

    For cold turkey people (and perhaps gum/patch users), I tend to agree. For vapers, I think it is flavor that is missed. But as vaping covers that (in spades), it is somewhat illogical until the vaper realizes / acknowledges that smoking flavor isn't being captured through vaping.

    I think that in general the entire world overestimates the role of nicotine in smoking...
    And vastly underestimates everything else about smoking.

    Can't say I go along with this. Nicotine is that addictive that it is plausibly on equal footing with the habit / rituals with smoking. IMO, it is actually greater, and I believe vaping somewhat proves that out. Vapers generally have not much of an issue stopping smoking, but imagine if a vaper had to go cold turkey (from nicotine) tomorrow? I say without any commitment to the desire for overcoming the addiction, they would not last very long. Once that first real craving hit, they wouldn't reason that a smoke would be great right about now, but instead reason that vaping, perhaps at lower level of nic, would surely help in this moment.

    Don't get me wrong though, because I do believe there are many people that are very much addicted to nicotine.
    But I am convinced that the actual NEED for nicotine is not as universal as the world likes to think it is.

    I am interested in hearing more from your perspective regarding need / addiction to nicotine. I truly am. I think of nicotine as among the most addictive substances on the planet. And yet that need can be overcome, and so logic would say there is something within us that is more powerful than that need / addiction.
     

    Jman8

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    Haven't had sex in 15 years ( I'm I a ex-user? ) use to be a daily user. Couldn't get away from it. It was always near by :evil: tempting me. I had to have it one more time then one more time again. I just couldn't get far enough away from sex to quit I tryed many quit programs none of them worked for long, I had a monkey on my back it was just to easy to get.
    My family members refused/wouldn't help me. There said if I wanted to stop I could. I went for help to my church/hospital/doctor/gov't noone could help me!
    I'm I still a sex addict or a ex-sex addict. Hum...
    Oh no, I'm so tied of hiding and not telling the truth, will this ever end?

    All I can say is.... poor, poor little monkey.
    You'd think he'd get bored with the sex after awhile and just run away.
    Yes, I kid.
     

    Jman8

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    Smokers smoke different quantities and at a different pace, the person who has 2 smokes a week is just as much a smoker as the one who smokes 50 a day.

    Disagree with this. One of these people is likely a moderate user, and the other is likely a heavy abuser.

    To me, smoker is the fallacy. I could explain this further, but suffice it to say that a person can be both a smoker and a non-smoker within the same week. Even within the same day. Even within the same hour. It's the smoker label that produces the fallacy. While also being something that makes for quick reference so we don't have to think about these things beyond the 10 seconds, at most, we care to think about them.
     

    hvac999

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    Jman8, I normally don't speak out against another member but I am making an exception. What is your deal. From this post, and others you have made, you are an anti nicotine crusader. You speak on deaf ears. Caffeine is also HIGHLY addictive and ABUSED substance and why are you not crusading against that. Stop your campaign against nicotine. It has gotten people of those death sticks. If we NEVER stop it's "highly addictive" use we will have gained MANY years by not smoking analogs.
     

    hvac999

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    DC2

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    I am interested in hearing more from your perspective regarding need / addiction to nicotine. I truly am. I think of nicotine as among the most addictive substances on the planet. And yet that need can be overcome, and so logic would say there is something within us that is more powerful than that need / addiction.
    Basically, my perspective is pretty much this...
    Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties. However, after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential.
    Tobacco smoke contains the monoamine oxidase inhibitors harman, norharman, anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine. These compounds significantly decrease MAO activity in smokers. MAO enzymes break down monoaminergic neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. It is thought that the powerful interaction between the MAOI's and the nicotine is responsible for most of the addictive properties of tobacco smoking.

    Although I do consider the possibility that nicotine is much more addictive for some people than for others.

    I also think a lot of people who think they are addicted to nicotine might be surprised what would happen if they just stopped putting it in their juice.
    In fact, I've seen that happen a number of times around here, sometimes on purpose and sometimes on accident.
     
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