NON-Melting Vaporizer Exist?

[NakedRacer]

Searching the past few weeks have turned up many tips, theories, and great articles and discussions, yet I have been unable to find any clear indication of a personal vaporizer (PV) model that doesn't melt or burn itself. Please post if you know of a PV model that only vaporizes liquid (or at least, not itself, not the cartridges, and preferably not the filler).

Also include in your post, if you know, how the PV is designed differently as to overcome vaporizing, burning, or melting itself (i.e. metal cartridges, tank instead of filler in cartridge, different vaporizing technology, unique atomizer design, temperature monitor/cut-off, bigger device, moisture detection threshold, etc.).

My main concern is the cartridges melting, although after further research, I’m now a little concerned about material that is part of the atomizer producing toxic fumes as it degrades and vaporizes itself. However the topic on whether or not, or to what degree these fumes cause ill-effects has stricken a lot of controversy. Because of this, I’d like to avoid any discussion regarding their effects on our health, focusing on finding a PV model which does not produce said effects, thus making the argument non-implacable.

BEFORE YOU POST A REPLY: Please keep in mind, this thread is for posting information on personal vaporizer models that do not melt the cartridges, NOT tips to avoid melting and NOT how dangerous or safe these fumes are.
*Please do not post any tips in this thread about how to reduce your cartridges melting
*Please do not post that switching to dripping will eliminate melting cartridges.
*Please do not post whether or not the fumes from the atomizer, cartridge or filler are safer than analogue cigarettes (or whether the amount is too low to be dangerous).
*Please do not post a modified personal vaporizer (mod) unless it has been created and tested, and not just in-theory.

Also, it should meet these specs:
- Medium to Low Maintenance: Holds (at least) 2 cigarettes worth of vapor experience before a refill is required.
- Portable: The power is self-contained and lasts (at least) one (re)fill of e-juice on one charge.

Theories and discussion about the degree of safety, the most efficient model for throat hit and vapour production, new model ideas and modifications, and tips/tricks have been posted in a lot of forums. These popular topics seem to take over the focus soon after someone asks why their PV melts or fumes more than just the e-juice liquid. Although tips and mods are important to reducing the occurance in certain models, it makes it difficult to find the right personal vaporizer model or type that meets certain standards, standards which seem to be very practicable to meet, but may only exist theoretically to date. I hope this thread will help others and I find at least one personal vaporizer meeting these standards, or at least motivate a PV manufacturer to make a new PV model that does not emit these fumes. Please, feel free to post any information on PV model/types which you think may meet these standards, and conversely any information which disqualifies or counteracts a proposed PV. I’ll post any personal vaporizers that meet the criteria below:



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Submitted By: Model
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N/A - (sorry, none yet)

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Thank you!
NakedRaceCarDriver

 

[chc]

none should melt. IMO its either user error or defective hardware.

 

[Birdy]

Haven't had one "melt".
What exactly are you basing your belief that cartridges melt on?

 

[ryanSTi]

I use the KR*808 cart. Whether or not it's at 3.7 or 5 volts depends on the mood and where I am. Even when chain vaping very heavily and making it get very hot (hot enough that I can't even press it to my lips or fingers), and after examining it, I haven't seen any melting.

On another note, NHaler says that with their XHaler on 7.4 volts high voltage attys are strongly urged, and to make sure that the atty stays very very wet with ejuice otherwise "you will burn an atty".

I've yet to see a PV that lasts anywhere near 2 packs worth of ejuice. You could use any large cart mod with a stronger ejuice so that fewer puffs is equivalent to a cigarette and therefore get more "cig equiv" from the same amount of ejuice.

And I'm not too sure what's involved or how much it holds, but the GG brand has what they call the AFS. I think it's Auto Feed/Fill System? Basically, it's a resivour for ejuice. You could look into this if you want too.

Hope this helps. Maybe someone with a GG with AFS can chime in here and help you out a little more than I can.

 

[voltaire]

You make it sound like carts melting is a prevalent problem among all or most models, as far as I know, it's not.

I use the 510 which is known to run hot for a stock ecig running at 3.7 volts and I have vaped it pretty intensely to where it gets rather hot, bur I've never experienced any indication of carts melting. There are many people running these at 5-6 volts and not experiencing any carts melting during regular use.

In fact, the only cases of carts melting I've heard of is when the battery switch gets stuck in the ON position in someone's pocket, purse, unattended, etc. The temperature required to melt the cart is high enough, that while in use, it would be difficult not to notice it before it got to that point.

As for the potential outgassing of other components within the atomizer, such as the coil itself, I have had some minor concerns with what substances might be released. Personally, I like to think that I mitigate (however feebly) this potential risk by not inhaling any vapor when first breaking in a new atomizer. But I'm not very worried about it myself - the quantities of any potentially harmful substances would be relatively minute.

PS: Are you by any chance a teacher or professor? Just a wild guess, lol!

 

[Kent C]

Ecigs are not for everyone. Perhaps you should just continue to smoke or find some other alternative. The requirements that you want are not achievable with an current ecigarette. There will always be the bridge that is off center or a bit too high, a filler that will end up on the bridge, the wicking in the bridge or coil will get burnt or singed. IOW, to the question is there any ecig device where absolutely none of the above will happen, the answer is No!

 

[chc]

Ecigs are not for everyone. Perhaps you should just continue to smoke or find some other alternative.

Funny but so true

 

[Kent C]

Funny but so true

Glad you were amused. ;-) I was serious though.

 

[Dillan]

As far as the mouthpiece on a three piece unit goes... under ordinary use the unit should never melt - the atty shouldn't be getting hot enough to melt plastic.

That said - I'm not absolutely positive what plastic is used in most/all mouthpieces - different plastics have different melting temperatures (compare, say, saran wrap to teflon pipe - they're both "plastic" but they have drastically different heat reactions). My impression is that the mouthpiece is, or is similar to, PVC, which has a melting point around 360 degrees - a lighter could make it melt, but an atty shouldn't.

The only thing that really "burns" is the filler material in the cart, as far as I'm aware - polyfill, blue foam, whatever it is, it can "burn" when it's lost too much fluid. I think the Zero Fill mod (which uses a silicone cap as its plug) is about the only one (that I'm aware of anyway) that might be entirely immune to that issue. Silicone is similar to teflon in its heat resistance properties (somewhere in the high 600s - hot enough to survive an oven unscathed has to be "good enough" IMO).

Metal cartridges would be bad, IMO - metal tends to have very high melting temperatures, true, but its also an excellent heat conductor - which means if you DID get your atty hot enough to melt harder plastics, you're also exposing your mouth directly to that temperature - instant second or third degree burn to the lips.

I realize I'm only talking theory here, but realistically you're looking for teflons, silicones, and similar materials, for high heat resistance and low heat conductivity simultaneously. Anything that doesn't meet both tests isn't going to cut it. But to know how good good has to be, we need an upper limit first on expected atty max temp.

 

[JeannieB360]

In theory, a vaporizer is a device to turn something from solid or liquid into gas/steam, and what makes it personal is a method for delivering that gas/steam to someone's respiratory system.

E-cigs as they exist today use heat to generate the vapor, which is then inhaled into someone's mouth through a tube. The OP is asking for a PV that limits the temperature of the vapor so that it doesn't get 'too hot' that it cannot 'melt' other elements of the device in creating the vapor, like the 'fill' in current PVs, or the 'tube' used to deliver the vapor to someone's lungs, like the plastic cartridge.

Great in theory, but it would take some technological breakthrough to create such a device so that it is as portable as a cigarette and inexpensive enough 'use' to market on a mass basis.

So the best current technology can offer are methods to minimize 'cart melting' or 'fill melting', and methods to minimize the risk of 'system failures' (example - cutoff times in 'automatic battery' e-cigs).

 

[NakedRacer]

Wow, I wasn't expecting so many replies so fast. I'm guessing you're not the decaf crowd. I am a new esmoker, and have only used the joye 510. But the ends of my carts keep melting. I even use two and switch between them so they don't get hotter then I can touch, yet still vape enough to resemble smoking.

8-oWhen I say melt, I don't mean the cartridge is liquifiying in my hands as I vape. I mean the top of the cart is melting slowly, and even after one day, it is noticable. Looking inside the 510 atomizer at the white wirey wick, I'm not surprised the cart is melting, in fact I bet it is melting layers off the inside, just not to a noticable degree until the top of it starts, then it starts melting faster. But this is a guess based on assuming the white wick and/or wires within it get really hot when the coil heats up. But just to clearify, after one session I would not notice any melting on a new cart, only after a day or two.

I thought that this was typical of joye 510 e-cigs, not all models, but I couldn't find any conclusions on the various threads related to 'melting' or 'burning' suggesting a model that does not burn it's filler or cart. Or at least a model with less 'defective hardware' or less prone to 'user error'.

I really appreciate your suggestions and I will look into the models and mods, as smoking a little plastic each day is a little more then my threshold. However I enjoy vaping, and feel it could replace my disguisting cigarette habit. I'm just really surprised there isn't a safer vaping model out there, but I'm even more surprised that noone is as annoyed as much about filler and carts melting. Maybe all four of my atomizers were defective, or I was vaping them backwards. But maybe a mod will do for now. I'll let you know, and thanks everyone. Honestly though, you guys can go over a week using the same cart, topping it off and not notice any deformation at the top of the cart?

Peace,
NakedRaceCarDriver

 

[devonschmoker]

I have been using the 510 since the automatic batt only times. (First production Dura) The only time I have ever seen one melt in the way you have described is when it’s cart starts to dry out. Once I started to top off the cart more often the problem disappeared. I would also suggest the straw mod. That seems to clear up the feeding issues that the 510 carts seem to have. I hope my advice helps you a bit.

 

[Ringo®]

I've never had a problem with melting anything, and trust me......if there is a way to do something wrong, I can find it almost all the time within 5 minutes. If you really are concerned about it, the only meltable part I can think of would be the plastice cartridge. Super T Manufacturing makes a metal cartridge if this is of major concern to you.

 

[Hellen A. Handbasket]

Probably New Toy Syndrome.

Most likely the 'melting' is caused by your over use of the unit, causing the tube itself to heat up, and the cartridge is getting soft from that.

You need to check the atty temp when you first start vaping (we all huff away on the 'new toy' and make the atty too hot). Every few puffs, put the atomizer against your bottom lip. If it is too warm to put there comfortably, you are using it too much.

Your other option is to drip without the cartridge if you just want to vape solidly and not let it rest to cool (you can cut it off and just use the mouthpiece portion, or get the brass mouthpiece made for dripping from Super-T... I have one for a 510, they're nifty).

It is also possible that you have an atomizer that the bridge is off center on. Look down inside the atomizer to see if the bridge is leaning to a side wall of the atomizer. Use a PLASTIC pen cap's pointed pocket clip to gently move it to center. One of my social group members was having that issue, and I fixed it for him this way. It is rare in the 510 atty, but does happen.

 

[chc]

not sure if anyone mentioned it but when using the 510 you HAVE TO make sure the cart and the atomizer are lined up properly. If you look in the atty you will see a white oval shape under the bridge, the same shape as the bottom of the cart. These MUST be aligned to avoid having it melt.

 

[foebea]

You might find this up your alley if there is great concern of the melting plastic. A little higher maintnance, but there is no way the atty gets hot enough to melt these. They are Brass dripping tips, called T-Tips. Down at the bottom of the page Super T Manufacturing, Innovative manufacturer of electronic cigarette products.

 

[NakedRacer]

Thanks again for the advice everyone, that metal cart sounds sweet. I'd rather burn my lip then inhale plastic. My cart alignment was had no-alignment when I first got my joye510 because I had no idea it was suppose to be aligned. I don't think it's mentioned in the manuel, but I hope it is and I just missed it. I thought aligning my carts to the same ceramic shape in the atty would fix the melting, but no, although it did help significantly. They may be off centre, I'll check next time I top off. I have to say, it's difficult keeping the cart's wet and knowing when to refill without flooding the atty, and without vaping dry. I wish there was a clear idicator rather then that burning taste.

I said I was annoyed at these vaporizer models because of thier design, but actually I'm more surprised that a more efficient PV model isn't out there. The vaping concept has real potential to save those who really like to smoke. Simulating smoke fills my craving.

 

[voltaire]

Yeah, it sounds like you're letting the atty get too dry. The clear indicators will be less vapor, burnt taste, and the outside temp of the atty will quickly get hot. All of that should be readily noticeable before the cart even gets close to melting. I always keep a finger on the atty before and after taking a drag to monitor the temperature.

If this is happening even though there's plenty of liquid still in the cart, it could be for a number of reasons. The filler in the cart may be too far down in the cart and not making contact with the bridge. Or the filler in the cart could be too tightly packed, thus not allowing the juice to flow properly.

I suggest you take a look at the Cart Mod forum for ideas to improve on the OEM design. If you don't feel like doing any of that, you should get used to *frequently* topping off the cart with a couple of drops of liquid.

 

[NakedRacer]

Actually, everytime I've blown it out because it's getting too hot, melting carts, weak vapour, bad taste, ect... there's lots of gross liquid coming out of the atty. Could flooding the atty be melting my carts? I've tried different amounts of liquid in the cart, but I'm afraid of vaping dry so maybe I'm using too much. When I first got it, I filled to cart completely full of course, then after that weird bubbling sound I learned that you can flood the atty, so I've been using less and less after I blow it out, but maybe it's still too much. In my lowest fill, I put enough so you could see liquid if you push the filler down into the cart half way, so when fully expanded, there was no liquid even trying to drip out the top when I held it upside down. Would you say this is too much, just right, or too little?

Thanks again! I really appreciate the help, and I'm glad to hear noone else is having their carts melting.

 

[NakedRacer]

It's vaping alot better since that last blow out and my lowest cart fill. My mouth is bursting full of vapour within a second or two. It took 5 seconds before. Although I should mention that my PV sounds like it's screaming, even for a second after I realize the button. Maybe it can finally breath now, and I'm hearing it gasping for air after sufficating it for so long.8-o