Nude Nicotine and shelf life of ingredients

[Alien Traveler]

I was thinking about ordering some nicotine from Nude Nicotine, but got irritated after reading this:

Few last points to cover – shelf-life varies largely by nicotine strength, as well as PG/VG ratio. Higher nicotine strengths will possess more nicotine molecules, less likely to be completely solvated by their carrier (PG/VG). Put simply – 100mg/mL formulations will keep for less time than a 24mg/mL formulation. PG is also a much better solvent for this purpose – it has an extremely low viscosity, will dissipate dispersed oxygen bubbles quickly (say that 4 times fast!), and has a longer shelf-life chemically (2 years from DOM, vs. VG – 1 year).
Storing Your Nicotine Solution - Nude Nicotine

It is pure gibberish from chemical point of view.

1. Nicotine solubility in both PG and VG is good enough for it to be fully dissolved at all mentioned concentrations (strengths). So, proposed longer shelf life of weaker solutions is wrong.
2. Proposed longer shelf life solutions based on PG is wrong also: viscosity does not matter in the long run. During prolonged storage all accessible molecules of oxygen will be used anyway.
3. Finally they stated that shelf life of VG is 1 year. Do not know where from they got it, but Procter & Gamble and Dow expect 2 year shelf life, so I would not expect difference between PG and VG.

Too bad to see such nonsense on a web site of a seller. People tend to believe seller’s advice…

One more thing. Actually I believe stronger nicotine solutions may have longer shelf life. They’ll have higher nicotine/oxygen ration when packed in a bottle, so smaller proportion of nicotine will be affected by oxidation.

 

[VapieDan]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 15383683" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I was thinking about ordering some nicotine from Nude Nicotine, but got irritated after reading this:

Few last points to cover – shelf-life varies largely by nicotine strength, as well as PG/VG ratio. Higher nicotine strengths will possess more nicotine molecules, less likely to be completely solvated by their carrier (PG/VG). Put simply – 100mg/mL formulations will keep for less time than a 24mg/mL formulation. PG is also a much better solvent for this purpose – it has an extremely low viscosity, will dissipate dispersed oxygen bubbles quickly (say that 4 times fast!), and has a longer shelf-life chemically (2 years from DOM, vs. VG – 1 year).
Storing Your Nicotine Solution - Nude Nicotine

It is pure gibberish from chemical point of view.

1. Nicotine solubility in both PG and VG is good enough for it to be fully dissolved at all mentioned concentrations (strengths). So, proposed longer shelf life of weaker solutions is wrong.
2. Proposed longer shelf life solutions based on PG is wrong also: viscosity does not matter in the long run. During prolonged storage all accessible molecules of oxygen will be used anyway.
3. Finally they stated that shelf life of VG is 1 year. Do not know where from they got it, but Procter & Gamble and Dow expect 2 year shelf life, so I would not expect difference between PG and VG.

Too bad to see such nonsense on a web site of a seller. People tend to believe seller’s advice…

One more thing. Actually I believe stronger nicotine solutions may have longer shelf life. They’ll have higher nicotine/oxygen ration when packed in a bottle, so smaller proportion of nicotine will be affected by oxidation.

My question is how does nicotine deteriorate? Does it just drop in strength? Is taste affected? If just a continual drop in strength it would appear 100 mg nicotine would remain usable as it passed to lower ranges of strength. As an example if 100mg drops to 50mg in three years with proper storage using it at levels below 50mg would still be viable.

 

[bwh79]

My question is how does nicotine deteriorate? Does it just drop in strength? Is taste affected?

It oxidizes. It's still perfectly safe (or as "safe" as it ever was, anyway) but it loses potency, and takes on a yellow or pinkish hue and "peppery" taste.

 

[VapieDan]

It oxidizes. It's still perfectly safe (or as "safe" as it ever was, anyway) but it loses potency, and takes on a pinkish hue and "peppery" taste.

The peppery taste could be a problem.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I still have some leftovers of nicotine (48 mg) I bought when I started DIY, about 9 month ago. All this time it was stored in opened (many times) white plastic bottle at room temperature. It became yellow and more peppery than I like (I have made some juice from it couple weeks ago). I did not notice any change in strength (it should go down, but not by much).

 

[VapieDan]

I am looking for long term storage. Many years. I think you know where I am going.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I am looking for long term storage. Many years. I think you know where I am going.

Yes, and because of it I wanted to buy some nicotine from Nude Nicotine (people like it). You can buy it from them already prepackaged in smaller bottles filled with argon (or nitrogen?). Argon is an overkill, but anyway... I already have one liter in a freezer but wanted to check new for my supplier.

 

[VapieDan]

I bought a couple of liters. Broken it down into 250ml brown glass bottles so they can be portioned out as needed rather than continually opening the single liter. Out in the barn for the winter. Inside A/C for the summer.

 

[shreduhsoreus]

I'll believe the advice of a seller who claims to have a team of educated and trained chemists before I'll believe someone on an internet forum that didn't post their credentials or sources.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I'll believe the advice of a seller who claims to have a team of educated and trained chemists before I'll believe someone on an internet forum that didn't post their credentials or sources.

Poor you .

 

[englishmick]

I was thinking about ordering some nicotine from Nude Nicotine, but got irritated after reading this:

Few last points to cover – shelf-life varies largely by nicotine strength, as well as PG/VG ratio. Higher nicotine strengths will possess more nicotine molecules, less likely to be completely solvated by their carrier (PG/VG). Put simply – 100mg/mL formulations will keep for less time than a 24mg/mL formulation. PG is also a much better solvent for this purpose – it has an extremely low viscosity, will dissipate dispersed oxygen bubbles quickly (say that 4 times fast!), and has a longer shelf-life chemically (2 years from DOM, vs. VG – 1 year).
Storing Your Nicotine Solution - Nude Nicotine

It is pure gibberish from chemical point of view.

1. Nicotine solubility in both PG and VG is good enough for it to be fully dissolved at all mentioned concentrations (strengths). So, proposed longer shelf life of weaker solutions is wrong.
2. Proposed longer shelf life solutions based on PG is wrong also: viscosity does not matter in the long run. During prolonged storage all accessible molecules of oxygen will be used anyway.
3. Finally they stated that shelf life of VG is 1 year. Do not know where from they got it, but Procter & Gamble and Dow expect 2 year shelf life, so I would not expect difference between PG and VG.

Too bad to see such nonsense on a web site of a seller. People tend to believe seller’s advice…

One more thing. Actually I believe stronger nicotine solutions may have longer shelf life. They’ll have higher nicotine/oxygen ration when packed in a bottle, so smaller proportion of nicotine will be affected by oxidation.

I was on the NN site this weekend choosing flavors for my next order and I noticed this nic storage segment. Had the same reaction as you. I've read the stuff Kurt and other folks on ECF have written on the topic, and this was different in just about every detail. Kurt is a professional chemist who has done extensive work with nicotine. He brings both theoretical knowledge of the chemical processes and hands on practice to the table.

Unless you are Kurt or have equivalent knowledge you have to trust someone. Really the only sensible way is to check out multiple sources, assess the value of each, and try to find an average. In this case it's quite simple, on one side NN, on the other side everyone else. My guess is someone who didn't really know the subject wrote it off the top of their head.

 

[shreduhsoreus]

Poor you .

Wow, what a list of sources. Your attached scan of your chemistry degree really convinced me too.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Wow, what a list of sources. Your attached scan of your chemistry degree really convinced me too.

Are you trying to troll me?

OK, suppose I’ll tell you I have master’s degree. You’ll ask “Just master’s?” Suppose I’ll tell you I have Ph.D also. You’ll ask “And no publications?” Suppose I’ll tell you number of my publications. You’ll ask “And all of them are in low impact journals?”. Suppose I’ll tell you my h-index… Will it ever end?

So, I am sorry to inform you – I will not engage in further conversation with you.

 

[classwife]

alright children...


smh...

 

[Alien Traveler]

alright children...


smh...

Classy !