Often Misunderstood Scriptures! WOW!~

[LisaLisa]

I"ve been witnessing to an unbeliever about Jesus recently, and it's been a real challenge. She believes that the god is evil, mean, and all of those things and she brought up several reasons why. One of those reasons is when one of the men that were carrying the Ark of the Covenant was struck down dead when he saw it falling and he reached out his hand to steady it. This was one of the things she brought up to "prove" that god was a meanie.

Ok, so if I wanted to continue talking with this person, I had to dig into the scriptures a little deeper to figure out why that happened and offer her another explanation. Honestly, my heart sank a little when she brought that one up because I've always thought to myself "well dang, I would have done the same thing too if I were in that guys shoes", but it's not something that I dwelled on myself, so I just dismissed it until this woman brought it up. I wasn't expecting to find out what I found out.

When a person cares enough to dig into something to find the deeper meaning, he/she will usually find out there is alot more to that story.

The death of Uzzah while transporting the ark of the covenant is a very good example of that. There is ALWAYS more to learn to see why things happened the way that they did. In the ark's case, they were being completely disobedient and disrespectful with the most important object in the world!

God didn't kill Uzzah because he touched the Ark. God was dealing with Leadership issues of complacency, contempt and a lack of responsiveness towards God. This was a public event not a private personal event. God was dealing with the Leadership of a nation. And that nation was supposed to be a witness to the One true God among all the nations of the world! How would the Gentiles be saved unless God's Holy and Trustworthy Name was evident in the life of Israel. The salvation of the Gentiles during that time was at stake along with the Israelites. This was not about 1 person dying but the Name of God being treated with honor so that others could be saved. If God's Name is treated with contempt or complacency why would anyone come to Him to be saved? They would run to the other false gods of the time who could not save them at all and therefore be lost forever. There was a lot more a stake than we realize.

Link to the full article here:

[link to www.onlinethoughts.com]


So you see, there is always ALOT more to the story then meets the eye. People use things like this as "reasons" to call God a monster and nothing could be further from the truth. Everything God does is just and correct. It is mans lack of study and understanding, and also satan using these things by telling half truths to further his agenda of turning people away from God.

It's very sad actually, and even sadder that alot of people don't even care enough to do the research and are so quick to jump on the "god is hateful" bandwagon instead of seeing how wonderful, just and loving He really is.

I"m so glad she brought that up, because now I really do understand why that happened!

 

[cheymat]

I posted this on another fourm and i think it may apply here as well.

As i was reading this thread something came to mind. A few weeks ago i read another thread and someone (and please forgive me i cant remember who) was talking about why God struck down Uzzah for touching The Ark as it was about to fall. One explanation they gave was because the Ark was housed in Uzzah's home that he became to familer with it and therefore lost reverance for it. He was so use to seeing it that he forgot why its so important.

But i agree with you. There are more and more people out there who are angry at God for one reason or another. And this is why....

Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

It reads like the nightly news doesnt it? It will only get worse and worse. When Jesus sets foot on the Mt. of Olives then and only then will we have true peace on earth.

 

[LisaLisa]

I posted this on another fourm and i think it may apply here as well.



But i agree with you. There are more and more people out there who are angry at God for one reason or another. And this is why....

Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

It reads like the nightly news doesnt it? It will only get worse and worse. When Jesus sets foot on the Mt. of Olives then and only then will we have true peace on earth.

You're so right, it really does read like the nightly news........LOL!!!!!

 

[LisaLisa]

Here's another one, it's the letter from Paul saying that the women in church must remain silent. She also brought this one up too, to show that God treats women unfairly. OH BOY! So, I had to research that one too, and what an eye opener that was!!!!!!!

The apostle Paul wrote letters to churches to mediate in the problems of each church and set guidelines for them to follow.

Acts 21:9 tells us that Phillip the evangelist had "four virgin daughters who prophesied." A true prophecy is a message from God to a specific person or church. Would any minister of God refuse to let a woman deliver a true message that God had given her for the people of God? We have every reason to believe that converted Christian women such as the daughters of Phillip were participating in church services...... using their own God-given spiritual gifts, and Paul did not oppose their participation.

Yet the church at Corinth was having some problems that had to do with false prophets or prophetesses. Paul must deal with the problem without shutting down the church's access to the true prophets and prophetesses of God. It was a touchy situation.

To understand Paul's comments in chapter 14 about women "keeping silent" there is one critical KEY passage that comes first! Many have overlooked it and read right past it....... but once it is understood the entire passage begins to fall into place.


1 Cor. 12:1-3

1. Now concerning spiritual {gifts,} brethren, I do not want you to be unaware.

2. You know that when you were pagans, {you were} led astray to the dumb idols, however you were led.

We realize that some that attend the Corinth church are still involved with pagan idols. He points out that the members were once led astray themselves. Paul leads his readers towards compassion and reconciliation towards those that are still unconverted "pagans" in their midst.

3. Therefore I make known to you, that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Why is Paul making such an obvious statement? Doesn't everyone already KNOW that anyone saying, "Jesus is accursed" is not speaking by the spirit of God? Paul goes on to explain and defend spiritual gifts, talk about love, and finally reprimand women or wives causing disturbances in chapter 14. The only way the words "Jesus is accursed" fits into the rebuke that follows is if Paul is reacting to a specific incident reported to him that he needs to deal with. In these statements he is first bringing up the subject of what has happened in the Corinthian church! Misguided persons--still considered pagans-- have disrupted services with a false prophecy of "Jesus is accursed!" and opposing true prophets have countered with, "Jesus is Lord!" in reply!

Notice that in these verses immediately following the above verses, Paul is defending the concept of spiritual gifts given to every single true believer....both males and females:

1 Cor. 12:4-11

4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.

6 And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

Here he teaches that both men and women are given manifestation of the Holy Spirit.....spiritual gifts....for the benefit of the entire church, not just for their own benefit.

7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another {various} kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Paul is going out of his way to enforce that "each one" is given a spiritual gift/ role or part to play in God's Church. God gives these roles as He desires-- only God can decide what spiritual gift is given to each man and woman! Paul does not say anything to indicate that "these public roles are the male gifts, and these private roles are the female gifts" as some teach.

Paul is making it PLAIN that he does not wish to exclude anyone or anyone's spiritual gift, but verses 2 and 3 show us that someone...possibly a woman....has said, "Jesus be cursed", and this was not from God's Spirit! Paul warns them of the error of this message, yet also defends the rights of all true believers....both male and female.....to participate in church services.

ALSO, the Greeks had only one word for both woman and wife....the word "gune[iv]". The same word that Paul uses in 1 Cor 14:34 is translated "wives" in many passages such as Matthew 19:8, "Jesus replied, 'Moses permitted you to divorce your wives...'" and many others including Ephesians 5:25 and 1 Peter 3:1. So when Paul writes, "Let the women keep silent" he uses a word with two meanings! He may well be referring to "wives" who are unconverted and untaught...the very one that "prophesied" that "Jesus was accursed" as recorded in 1 Cor 12:3. The church at Corinth would know exactly which wife or wives he meant! For us today, we must rely on context clues to reveal whether Paul was talking of women in general or specific wives.


1 Cor 14:34

34 Let the {or *those} women (the same word as "wives") keep silent in the churches {church}; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

The Greeks have many forms of the word "the" but this exact word is "hai" 3588. .In all the following New King James scriptures the same word in the male form --"hoi" is translated "those": John 6:14, "those men" ; John 8:29 KJV, "those things"; Romans 8:5 "For those who"; Romans 8:8, "those who are in the flesh" NKJ; 1 Cor 10:18, "those who eat"; 1 Cor. 15:18, "those who have fallen asleep"; and 1 Cor. 15:23, "those who are Christ's"; Gal. 3:9, "those who are of faith"; Gal. 5:24, "those who are Christ's"; Gal. 6:13, "those who are"; 1Thes. 5:7, "Those who sleep"; 1 Tim 3:13 "For those who have served well; 2Tim. 1:15, "all those in Asia"; 2 Tim 3:6, "those who creep".

By using the feminine form of this word, "hai", Paul is saying, "Let those wives keep silent..." Not ALL women, just those causing confusion! Now doesn't that put a whole different spin on things! LOL!

 

[Shotline]

Not that I want to get in a fight with you, but if what you say is true, why isn't God striking down people left and right these days?

 

[LisaLisa]

Not that I want to get in a fight with you, but if what you say is true, why isn't God striking down people left and right these days?

I"m not completely sure that I understand your question..........but He is not striking down people right and left for touching the Ark because the Ark has been missing, it's probably burried somewhere.

 

[Shotline]

No, if God struck down Uzzah becaue he had become complacent wtih God or that God have given up the people to all maner of depravity because they lost the word of God, then shouldn't God be striking down a good portion of the country by now?

 

[cheymat]

Not that I want to get in a fight with you, but if what you say is true, why isn't God striking down people left and right these days?

Age of Grace.

 

[LisaLisa]

Age of Grace.

Yep!

 

[Shotline]

Hmm, I look out my window and I don't see to much "Grace" out there.

 

[cheymat]

From Jack Kelly's web site GraceThruFaith

Silent Women?
Q. I have a question about your thoughts on 1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

How does this correlate to today and why was it abolished?

A. I’m afraid we might be the victims of a translation less specific than it should have been here. Paul was not forbidding women ever to speak at all, or else why would he have admonished them to wear a head covering when praying and prophesying? (1 Cor. 11:5-6)

The context of the verse you’ve cited is orderly worship, and the Greek word translated “speak” means to talk, question, argue, or chatter. These are disruptive actions of which some women were guilty. In support of this, in 1 Cor. 14: 35 Paul said that if ever they didn’t understand what that was going on, or had a contrary opinion about something being said, they should wait and discuss it with their husbands when they got home.

The definition for “speak” specifically did not prohibit singing, praying, prophesying or public speaking, which women, like men, have always been welcome to do in the church as long as it’s done in an orderly manner.


Women In Ministry
Q. For over 20 years I labored alongside my husband in the ministry. He went home to be with the Lord two years ago. I still feel the call to minister. Being a woman has disqualified me in the eyes of much of the church with the exception of teaching children or other women. Yet my husband and I were “in the trench” workers. We had a church that was an outreach to those on the fringes of society and worked the streets.My burning desire is to continue setting the captives free, praying for the sick, etc. I’ve tried to ignore it, deny it, and run from it. I’ve even asked the Lord to take the desire from me. Yet it continues. Still, there is a voice I hear that tells me I’m a “woman” and that is not my place or role.

I know all the arguments against women ministering. The Bible also tells me that “in Christ, there is neither male nor female – we are all one.” (paraphrased) What do you believe about women ministers?


A. I’m one of those who doesn’t believe that the Bible prohibits women in ministry. There are just too many examples of effective female workers for the Lord in both the Old and New Testaments.

I do believe that women in ministry are more effective when there is a man in the ultimate leadership role simply because it recognizes the order that God established. Therefore I would recommend a called and qualified woman for any position other than senior pastor in a church, or for any position in a para church ministry that is subordinate to male leadership, such as a board of trustees might provide.


Women In Ministry Follow Up
I’ve been in a situation over the years where I’ve had the opportunity to teach. Mostly because I’ve been more familiar with the biblical material than many of my male counterparts. Now, I find out this is some form of heresy. The scripture quoted to me is I Timothy 2:11-15 and to question this is to question God himself.


Q. I really appreciate your teachings and enjoy hearing your biblical insights on the many questions people ask you. Now I would be pleased to hear what you think about my situation.

I’ve been in a situation over the years where I’ve had the opportunity to teach. Mostly because I’ve been more familiar with the biblical material than many of my male counterparts. I believe that even though I was the one doing the teaching I was in no way in a position of authority over the few men I taught. I also home schooled my three grown sons spiritually and academically.

Now, I find out this is some form of heresy. The scripture quoted to me is I Timothy 2:11-15 and to question this is to question God himself. What is so incredible to me is that Timothy was taught spiritually by his mother and grandmother. While I believe this is a rule that should be followed and that men should be our leaders especially in spiritual matters, I can find several exceptions IN the bible where women lead and teach men.

The scripture in Timothy has been used to keep women from teaching for a long time. And I can accept this if asked. But I have to wonder, Where are the men and why aren’t they teaching?? And, if they refuse, are uninformed or undereducated in biblical teaching does this scripture really absolved women of any responsibility to teach??? I find this situation hard to believe. I would love to hear your thoughts. I would hope I haven’t committed a heresy of some sort.

A. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is a real puzzle, especially in light on Both Paul’s and Timothy’s experience and practice. Paul allowed Priscilla to teach, and at one she even helped instruct the great Apollos in a matter of doctrine (Acts 18:26). The entry of Christianity into Europe would surely have been delayed had Lydia’s group of female worshipers not been converted. Acts 16:11-15 offers no criticism of Lydia’s role in this. On the contrary Paul welcomed her offer of fellowship. And as you say women were a prominent part of Timothy’s spiritual education.

Then there’s the Greek phrase translated “usurp authority over the man” (1 Tim. 2:12). The word for usurp authority originally meant “to strangle someone with one’s own hands” but can also mean to act on one’s own authority as an absolute master.

In my opinion this is meant to describe a woman who demands to be the ultimate authority and refuses to be accountable to any one, “choking off” any man’s attempt at supervision.

I interpret this passage to mean that a called and qualified woman is free to accept a teaching role in the church as long as it doesn’t give her autonomous authority. In a local church this would exclude the position of senior pastor, and in a para-church ministry there needs to be an oversight board or committee led by a male. This isn’t intended to say that women aren’t as capable as men, but that it’s important to respect the governmental order for the Church that the Lord has established.

 

[LisaLisa]

Another thing I just learned is that hell is not forever. Revelation 20:14,15 says:

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I thought that hell was forever, but clearly that is not the case. It eventually will be destroyed, which is a great thing!

 

[LisaLisa]

Hmm, I look out my window and I don't see to much "Grace" out there.

These are the last days, people are a mess, and it will continue to get worse until Jesus comes again. God has reserved His judgment for a specific day, and it will come as a thief in the night.

 

[cheymat]

Another thing I just learned is that hell is not forever. Revelation 20:14,15 says:

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I thought that hell was forever, but clearly that is not the case. It eventually will be destroyed, which is a great thing!

That is the great white throne judgement. It is the final judgement of UNBELIEVERS. It is very real and very much forever. The lake of Fire is the "ultimate hell" i guess you could say. Im in the middle of cooking dinner right now, but i will expound on it in detail in a little bit. But i will say that hell is real and its forever.

 

[cheymat]

The way i understand it is there is 3 Judgements The 1st is our judgement (which isnt really a judgement its more like a reward ceremony) "The Bema Seat" is for Born-Again Belivers in Christ. This is believed to happen after the Rapture. Its a judgement of believers in Christ ONLY.

2Co 5:9 So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

What happens at this judgement?

1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it.
1Co 3:11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw--
1Co 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
1Co 3:14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

The 2nd Judgement is the Sheep & Goats Judgement. This is where the Trib belivers and the still alive non-believers are judged. This happens right after the 7 year Trib.

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'
Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
Mat 25:38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
Mat 25:39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
Mat 25:44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?'
Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The 3rd is the Great White Throne Judgement. This is where ALL the unbelieveing dead are raised and judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire. this happens after the 1,000 year reign.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison
Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,
Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Thoses who have died today that have not accepted Jesus as their Savior are in Hell. When they died they did not pass go and didnt collect $200. they went straight to hell. Now when all is said and done the above Rev verses will take place. all of the people in hell will be taken out, judged and thrown into the lake of fire. Its kinda like court. Your arrested and sent to lock-up with no bail. You wait for your trial and to be judged. You are taken out found guilty and put right back in. Only this time its worse because this isnt just a holding cell anymore. THIS IS THE BIG HOUSE! Thats why the verse says this is the 2nd death. Their 1st death is Hell. The 2nd is The Lake of Fire.

 

[LisaLisa]

Wow cheymat, that's some serious studying you did! Thank you!

 

[Vidi]

God didn't kill Uzzah because he touched the Ark.

Sorry but that is exactly why God killed Uzzah. Poor Uzzah was an example, killed to scare the daylights out of the others who DIDN'T READ THE LAW. Only Levites were allowed to carry the Ark. And it was meant to be carried. Uzzah was just a cart driver, a guy who tried to steady a valuable object.

Unfortunately for him, that was where he went completely wrong. The Ark wasn;t just some valuable object. It truly contained the power of God within it.

But once again, is Uzzah at fault here? Uzzah and his brother Ahio were chosen to escort the cart. Ahio in front and Uzzah behind.

Now lets put it in context.

Uzzah is just some guy. As "some guy" when his King ( David ) tells him to do something, he does it. Is Uzzah a prophet? Is Uzzah a messenger? Does God speak directly to Uzzah as he did Abraham and Moses? The answer is no. Uzzah is just some guy.

As he is just "some guy" he has NO IDEA that touching the Ark is offensive to God. Punishing the ignorant is never seen as just.

On the other hand, King David and his priests should have known better. Yet they go unpunished. Yeah...justice!

There are parts of our Bible that are cruel and savage. There is a REASON for that. Biblical apologists concoct various scenarios where God is still the good guy, because to admit the truth about God scares them.

There are more and more people out there who are angry at God for one reason or another

People are angry for good reason. They see the world with instant access to its horrors on an hourly rotation. The news ( both left and right ) spews hatred and filth into their hearts. And when they turn their prayers to God, they do so without the proper ears to hear an answer because we no longer worship God, we worship His book. When we ask for an answer we turn to the Bible instead of those around us. God places the answer in their mouths for us to hear but we are deaf to it. He places signs all around us, but we are blind. Blinded and deafened by the din of a book that was written by man in an attempt to translate the Word of God.

Look at two different versions of just the verse in which Uzzah dies:

KJV and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for [his] error; and there he died by the ark of God.

NIV The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the ark of God.

Notice that in the King James version, an angry God strikes down Uzzah, seemingly for steadying a falling ark. However, the New International version attempts to EXPLAIN by placing the words "because of his irreverent act" into the passage. This is clearly man's attempt to change the Bible to make it more accessible to modern mankind. The bible is changed from language to language from translation to translation like a childhood game where we each whipser a message down a line of ears to find that at the end" The elephant sat on the cat" turned into " A lion ate an elephant"

I thought that hell was forever, but clearly that is not the case. It eventually will be destroyed, which is a great thing!

Actually, it is the Lake of Fire where we get our image of Hell as an eternal burning. Hell is actually just a separation from God, which is a truly bleak and horrible thing, but the Lake of Fire is the eternal fires of damnation. Remember the most important verse in that passage:

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

That is final judgment. No reprieves.

These are the last days

These are NOT the last days. The fact that everyone keeps saying that it is should be proof enough that it is not. The last days have been here since the time of Christ. Only God knows when the last days are and no one on Earth will have a clue when the actually come.

 

[cheymat]

Sorry but that is exactly why God killed Uzzah. Poor Uzzah was an example, killed to scare the daylights out of the others who DIDN'T READ THE LAW. Only Levites were allowed to carry the Ark. And it was meant to be carried. Uzzah was just a cart driver, a guy who tried to steady a valuable object.

Unfortunately for him, that was where he went completely wrong. The Ark wasn;t just some valuable object. It truly contained the power of God within it.

But once again, is Uzzah at fault here? Uzzah and his brother Ahio were chosen to escort the cart. Ahio in front and Uzzah behind.

Now lets put it in context.

Uzzah is just some guy. As "some guy" when his King ( David ) tells him to do something, he does it. Is Uzzah a prophet? Is Uzzah a messenger? Does God speak directly to Uzzah as he did Abraham and Moses? The answer is no. Uzzah is just some guy.

As he is just "some guy" he has NO IDEA that touching the Ark is offensive to God. Punishing the ignorant is never seen as just.

On the other hand, King David and his priests should have known better. Yet they go unpunished. Yeah...justice!

EVERYONE at that time knew what would happen if they touched the Ark. It was housed in Uzzah's fathers house!

There are parts of our Bible that are cruel and savage. There is a REASON for that. Biblical apologists concoct various scenarios where God is still the good guy, because to admit the truth about God scares them.

He is the good guy. He sent his Son to DIE for us.

People are angry for good reason. They see the world with instant access to its horrors on an hourly rotation. The news ( both left and right ) spews hatred and filth into their hearts. And when they turn their prayers to God, they do so without the proper ears to hear an answer because we no longer worship God, we worship His book. When we ask for an answer we turn to the Bible instead of those around us. God places the answer in their mouths for us to hear but we are deaf to it. He places signs all around us, but we are blind. Blinded and deafened by the din of a book that was written by man in an attempt to translate the Word of God.

Look at two different versions of just the verse in which Uzzah dies:




Notice that in the King James version, an angry God strikes down Uzzah, seemingly for steadying a falling ark. However, the New International version attempts to EXPLAIN by placing the words "because of his irreverent act" into the passage. This is clearly man's attempt to change the Bible to make it more accessible to modern mankind. The bible is changed from language to language from translation to translation like a childhood game where we each whipser a message down a line of ears to find that at the end" The elephant sat on the cat" turned into " A lion ate an elephant"

Yes men put ink to paper, but God inspired it. If you cant take the bible at face value there is something wrong.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Actually, it is the Lake of Fire where we get our image of Hell as an eternal burning. Hell is actually just a separation from God, which is a truly bleak and horrible thing, but the Lake of Fire is the eternal fires of damnation. Remember the most important verse in that passage:

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

That is final judgment. No reprieves.

These are NOT the last days. The fact that everyone keeps saying that it is should be proof enough that it is not. The last days have been here since the time of Christ. Only God knows when the last days are and no one on Earth will have a clue when the actually come.

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Israel is the key to the last days, keep your eye on her. We are closer than you think.

 

[Southern Gent]

There is no Israel other than Christians. The generations were lost in 70 AD. A man made Israel means nothing more than creating a man made heaven. Neither have anything to do with end time and God's sovereignty. This 1000 year reign bit I'm not too hip on. If Christ is seated at God's right hand (right..being the working side)..is the kingdom not here..does He not reign as the supreme head of His church. And in the end will He not present the church (called people) to His Father and relinquish His authority. According to Corinthians this is so.

 

[LisaLisa]

Sorry but that is exactly why God killed Uzzah. Poor Uzzah was an example, killed to scare the daylights out of the others who DIDN'T READ THE LAW. Only Levites were allowed to carry the Ark. And it was meant to be carried. Uzzah was just a cart driver, a guy who tried to steady a valuable object.

Unfortunately for him, that was where he went completely wrong. The Ark wasn;t just some valuable object. It truly contained the power of God within it.

But once again, is Uzzah at fault here? Uzzah and his brother Ahio were chosen to escort the cart. Ahio in front and Uzzah behind.

Now lets put it in context.

Uzzah is just some guy. As "some guy" when his King ( David ) tells him to do something, he does it. Is Uzzah a prophet? Is Uzzah a messenger? Does God speak directly to Uzzah as he did Abraham and Moses? The answer is no. Uzzah is just some guy.

As he is just "some guy" he has NO IDEA that touching the Ark is offensive to God. Punishing the ignorant is never seen as just.

On the other hand, King David and his priests should have known better. Yet they go unpunished. Yeah...justice!

There are parts of our Bible that are cruel and savage. There is a REASON for that. Biblical apologists concoct various scenarios where God is still the good guy, because to admit the truth about God scares them.




People are angry for good reason. They see the world with instant access to its horrors on an hourly rotation. The news ( both left and right ) spews hatred and filth into their hearts. And when they turn their prayers to God, they do so without the proper ears to hear an answer because we no longer worship God, we worship His book. When we ask for an answer we turn to the Bible instead of those around us. God places the answer in their mouths for us to hear but we are deaf to it. He places signs all around us, but we are blind. Blinded and deafened by the din of a book that was written by man in an attempt to translate the Word of God.

Look at two different versions of just the verse in which Uzzah dies:




Notice that in the King James version, an angry God strikes down Uzzah, seemingly for steadying a falling ark. However, the New International version attempts to EXPLAIN by placing the words "because of his irreverent act" into the passage. This is clearly man's attempt to change the Bible to make it more accessible to modern mankind. The bible is changed from language to language from translation to translation like a childhood game where we each whipser a message down a line of ears to find that at the end" The elephant sat on the cat" turned into " A lion ate an elephant"





Actually, it is the Lake of Fire where we get our image of Hell as an eternal burning. Hell is actually just a separation from God, which is a truly bleak and horrible thing, but the Lake of Fire is the eternal fires of damnation. Remember the most important verse in that passage:

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

That is final judgment. No reprieves.



These are NOT the last days. The fact that everyone keeps saying that it is should be proof enough that it is not. The last days have been here since the time of Christ. Only God knows when the last days are and no one on Earth will have a clue when the actually come.

I'm still trying to figure out what you believe, if you're a christian or not. Honestly, some of the things you say make me wonder about your beliefs. Christians do believe in the Bible, but you don't? Please elaborate.