Often Misunderstood Scriptures! WOW!~

[cheymat]

There is no Israel other than Christians. The generations were lost in 70 AD. A man made Israel means nothing more than creating a man made heaven. Neither have anything to do with end time and God's sovereignty. This 1000 year reign bit I'm not too hip on. If Christ is seated at God's right hand (right..being the working side)..is the kingdom not here..does He not reign as the supreme head of His church. And in the end will He not present the church (called people) to His Father and relinquish His authority. According to Corinthians this is so.

Question: "What is replacement theology / supersessionism?"

Answer: Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. All the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel can be divided into two camps: either the church is a continuation of Israel (replacement/covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are “spiritualized” or “allegorized” into promises of God's blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?

The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings are valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God's program during these past 2000 years of dispersion.

After the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18), God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth, at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel which survives the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1-5).

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament support a premillennial/dispensational understanding of God's plan for Israel. Even so, the strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1-7, where it says six times that Christ's kingdom will last 1000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11).

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

Question: "What is kingdom now teaching?"

Kingdom Theology sees the Second Coming of Jesus in two stages: first through the flesh of the believers (and in particular the flesh of today's apostles and prophets), and then in person to take over the Kingdom handed to Him by those who have been victorious (the "overcomers"). Prior to the Second Coming, overcomers must purge the earth of all evil influences. Kingdom Now claims that Jesus cannot return until all His enemies have been put under the feet of the Church, (including death, presumably).

more here http://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-now.htm

And please point to where in Corinthians you are talking about

 

[Southern Gent]

Question: "What is replacement theology / supersessionism?"

Answer: Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. All the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel can be divided into two camps: either the church is a continuation of Israel (replacement/covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are “spiritualized” or “allegorized” into promises of God's blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?

The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings are valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God's program during these past 2000 years of dispersion.

After the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18), God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth, at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel which survives the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1-5).

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament support a premillennial/dispensational understanding of God's plan for Israel. Even so, the strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1-7, where it says six times that Christ's kingdom will last 1000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11).

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

Question: "What is kingdom now teaching?"

Kingdom Theology sees the Second Coming of Jesus in two stages: first through the flesh of the believers (and in particular the flesh of today's apostles and prophets), and then in person to take over the Kingdom handed to Him by those who have been victorious (the "overcomers"). Prior to the Second Coming, overcomers must purge the earth of all evil influences. Kingdom Now claims that Jesus cannot return until all His enemies have been put under the feet of the Church, (including death, presumably).

more here http://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-now.htm

And please point to where in Corinthians you are talking about

(1 Cor 15:23ff) But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming..Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.

(Gal. 4:25ff) Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman. Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman.

The proir post you made which I have copied assumes one believes in premillenialism which I do not.

 

[cheymat]

(1 Cor 15:23ff) But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming..Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.

(Gal. 4:25ff) Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman. Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman.

The proir post you made which I have copied assumes one believes in premillenialism which I do not.

Again in context

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
1Co 15:15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1Co 15:19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
1Co 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
1Co 15:29 Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?
1Co 15:30 Why are we in danger every hour?
1Co 15:31 I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
1Co 15:32 What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

But if you dont believe in premillenialism you will not understand. thats why so many dont understand Bible prophecy. it doesnt make any sense to you. You have to understand the seperation between the church and Israel.

 

[Southern Gent]

Again in context

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
1Co 15:15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1Co 15:19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
1Co 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
1Co 15:29 Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?
1Co 15:30 Why are we in danger every hour?
1Co 15:31 I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
1Co 15:32 What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

But if you dont believe in premillenialism you will not understand. thats why so many dont understand Bible prophecy. it doesnt make any sense to you. You have to understand the seperation between the church and Israel.

I do understand the difference between what was Israel and what is the church. Israel was offered the chance at redemption first...it was rejected. The Gospel was then given to gentiles (me) and if I accept it, I become one of God's favored just as the nation of Israel was. Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled except for the end time. The adaption of Biblical prophecy is only determined by what one believes is fulfilled or yet to be fulfilled. Premill beliefs leave much of Revelation as yet to come..I see Revelation as mostly complete with the destruction of the beast (Rome).

 

[cheymat]

I do understand the difference between what was Israel and what is the church. Israel was offered the chance at redemption first...it was rejected. The Gospel was then given to gentiles (me) and if I accept it, I become one of God's favored just as the nation of Israel was. Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled except for the end time. The adaption of Biblical prophecy is only determined by what one believes is fulfilled or yet to be fulfilled. Premill beliefs leave much of Revelation as yet to come..I see Revelation as mostly complete with the destruction of the beast (Rome).

But God still has a plan for them. God will not leave Israel out to dry. If he did that he breaks his covanant with Abraham, and we both know God is not a liar or a promise breaker. Satan hates Israel with a passion. And he will do everything in his power to wipe Israel off the map. Thats why there is so much trouble in the middle east. No it isnt going to happen tomorrow there is still much that needs to come first. Wars need to be fought, (Isaiah 17 and EZ 38 & 39) and the fullness of the gentiles need to come in before God turns his attention back to Israel. Rome will come back. We see that happening right now with the revived roman empire. Otherwise known as the European Union. Like i said it wont happen tomorrow, but its not very far off. 20 years at the most is what i think.

 

[Southern Gent]

But God still has a plan for them. God will not leave Israel out to dry. If he did that he breaks his covanant with Abraham, and we both know God is not a liar or a promise breaker. Satan hates Israel with a passion. And he will do everything in his power to wipe Israel off the map. Thats why there is so much trouble in the middle east. No it isnt going to happen tomorrow there is still much that needs to come first. Wars need to be fought, (Isaiah 17 and EZ 38 & 39) and the fullness of the gentiles need to come in before God turns his attention back to Israel. Rome will come back. We see that happening right now with the revived roman empire. Otherwise known as the European Union. Like i said it wont happen tomorrow, but its not very far off. 20 years at the most is what i think.

God has not broken the promise. "Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise." The promise has been opened to all peoples. Those (jewish nation) who died before Christ will be judged by the law. Those who had opportunity and rejected Him will be judged the same as one who rejects Him today. The jewish people knew of His coming. They knew all the signs. They even saw Him and the miracles and still rejected Him. God will have broken no promises here as they were given the first chance to accept Christ. The Jewish peoples, just like anyone else has opportunity to accept Jesus as savior. They refuse.

 

[cheymat]

Im sorry I will have to go for tonight its getting late. But here is something else i found that may intrest you.

What is Israel's role in the end times?

I hope that will give you more insight as to why i believe God still has a plan for Israel. Goodnight my brother! I will talk more with you in the morning!

 

[Southern Gent]

Im sorry I will have to go for tonight its getting late. But here is something else i found that may intrest you.

What is Israel's role in the end times?

I hope that will give you more insight as to why i believe God still has a plan for Israel. Goodnight my brother! I will talk more with you in the morning!

Goodnight and have a wonderful night.

 

[Vidi]

I'm still trying to figure out what you believe, if you're a christian or not. Honestly, some of the things you say make me wonder about your beliefs. Christians do believe in the Bible, but you don't? Please elaborate.

I believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, that He died on the cross and was raised again, and that through that blood sacrifice, I am saved.

Does that make me a Christian?

That sure doesn't seem to be enough in the veiws of most Christians. It wasn't enough to allow me to be married in ANY demoninational church 5 years ago. They rejected me because I refused to lie to them about my beliefs.

I have found that most people who call themselves Christians are unfortunately not. I have found that the more rhetoric they spew from their mouths, the less they are actually followers of our Lord.

Catholism was once the only Christian church. Eventually, protestants broke from that church to form their own based on their own interpretations of the Bible. Now we all interpret things based on our experience. Some believe once saved always saved, some believe the Kingdom can be lost in the last moments of life. Some believe in Baptism in infancy, others believe Baptism is only valid when that person is old enough to make a conscious choice. Who is correct?

What I believe is that the Bible was originally inspired by God. But, when looking at just the different translations into english, they don't always say the same things. Man has added to and subtracted from the Bible. The evidence is looking at the different translations side by side. This is very easy in the modern age with our wonderful internet. Take a look at Biblos.com. Read through various passages and see how sometimes certain nuances are changed, emphasized or ignored completely.

We know about the Councils of Nicea. We know that translation have changed meaning. We know this and yet, we ignore it. We ignore it and when someone discusses it, we close our ears to reason and fall back on fear and rhetoric. Because the way before us requires something far more difficult than we can imagine, but I'll get to that.

Many Christians have forgotten the very message that they are repeating over and over. We speak of a personal relationship with God, and then bury our faces in a book looking for God. We call the Bible the Word of God and we CAPITALIZE those words just as we capitalize any reference to God or Jesus or a pronoun refering to Them. We have exhalted the Bible to diety status so much so that I actually saw one of those televangelists with a mega church begin his sermon with a prayer to the Bible. It was then I saw what had been nagging at me, bothering me for years.

We no longer worship God.

I've just lost most of you. Most of you have stopped reading and are replying now without finishing this wall of text. For those still reading, here's the rub.

When we turn to the book instead of God, we no longer worship God. When we ask the book for direction, we no longer have a personal relationship with our creator. When we throw out long passages of the Bible to guide each other, we have forgotten our Father.

I believe that the TRUE word of God is written, not in a book, but on our hearts. That Gods plan for us is unknowable, but having faith in God means to have faith in His unknowable plan. I believe that Science has proven the existence of God, not disproven it, and that its power is not in denying God but in showing us how He create existence. I see no conflict in evolution and creationism other than a timeline. I believe that Jesus is the embodiment of God's Love and that He had to be sacrifised because Abraham was willing to sacrifise Isaac. I believe that the stories in the Bible are guides for us, but NOT a sacred, infallible deity. I believe that God has a sense of humor. I believe that God hears me everytime I speak to Him and that He answers me everytime I pray, but sometimes, He says no. I believe that the example of Jesus was that ALL mankind is my brother or sister and to hate them is to hate Him. I beleive that knowing that the Bible has been changed by man through translation, it's very possible that it was changed by those seeking to keep or gain power. I believe that knowing this, we cannot trust all aspects of the Bible. I believe that calling YOUR way or MY way, the ONLY way is one of the pillars of hate. I believe that pointing fingers at entire groups of people is a symptom of that hate. And I believe that hate is directly opposed to God and His Plan.

So, there you are. Am I a Christian?

I believe I am.

To say in one breath that to be a Christian, one must believe in Christ and thats all, then in another breath to say that one must believe in the Bible, well that confuses me...What then is the "truth" Is there more than just believing in Jesus? There's always a catch, isn't there?

 

[LisaLisa]

I believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, that He died on the cross and was raised again, and that through that blood sacrifice, I am saved.

Does that make me a Christian?

Yes, it does.

 

[Saintscruiser]

Hmm, I look out my window and I don't see to much "Grace" out there.

Shotline, it's by God's Grace that you and I are breathing. It's by God's Grace that you and I have clean water to drink, food to put in our stomachs, transportation to go here and there, and the same for all that you and I can see out of our windows. Regardless of what I eat, I thank God for a feast! It could be peanut butter and crackers and I'd thank Him for a feast! God takes care of His own, and He has MANY out preaching and teaching others about Jesus Christ, His only Son, so they can get saved, because He loves us all.

The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; my cup runs over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever. Psalm 23

To put it in a nutshell, God takes care of His kids, regardless of circumstances. Hallelujah!

 

[blondeambition3]

Yep!

Yup... what they said...