Oh dear, this is a little worrying

[hifistud]

I am a little concerned, frankly.

As far as I'm aware, PVs, e-cigs, personal portable nebulisers, call 'em what you will, are an alternative to cigarettes, can be used alongside them, instead of them, or as well as them. As in it's all down to personal preference.

However, what I'm seeing more and more in here is folks crusading, adopting holier than thou attitudes in terms of the "correct" usage of e-cigs, and how they are the saviour of all and so forth, and I'm becoming a little uneasy about it all.

There's a bloke posted that he want to sell his gear, because he can't get away with it. That's cool, but a few folk have chimed in with posts along the lines of "you can't have been doing it right" or "you should have said earlier, we could have helped". I find it faintly disquieting - they guy's tried it, didn't like it, end of, as far as I'm concerned. Anything more smacks of evangelising and seems just a tad , erm, cult-ish.

Chalk it up to British conservatism (small "c"), but, like I say, it worries me a little. I use e-cigs because I prefer them to cigarettes - but as far as I'm concerned, they're just a different brand that happen to have none of the drawbacks of the tobacco ones. I can't buy into the cult of the e-cig, and, in truth, I think over-the-top evangelism will do more harm than good...

This, by the way, is a mind-dump - there's something happening here that makes me feel uneasy, and I've yet to put my finger properly on it.

 

[kno]

I can't buy into the cult of the e-cig, and, in truth, I think over-the-top evangelism will do more harm than good...

well said. ive noticed alot of the self-righteous vapers chiming in to scrutinize rather than help. thanks for putting it in their faces.

 

[SudokuGal]

Agreed...but that's the nature of human beings, I'm afraid.

 

[Deschain]

I'm one of those folks, I ASKED a few questions and offered a bit of help on the off chance that I could be of some service.

Nothing holier than thou about it, a simple offer of help to somebody.

Edit: I'd also like to add that I didn't see anybody saying "you must be doing something wrong" People were offering a bit of support, that's all.


.

 

[tribalmasters]

If you don't like it get out muahahhaa! Just kidding

 

[NightShadow]

You may be on to something, or you might not

What you find evangelistic might simply be an attempt at being helpfull.

Scenario:

Guy posts he is in deep water (smoking IS bad right?) and says he just doesen't get this swimming (pv) thing and is going to give it up (and sink). Someone then posts "I wish you had posted that you couldn't swim before you opted to drown, we could have tried to help".

Just my take on the subject, ofcourse you may have read something with a much different tone than I have here. If you ask 10 people, you will likely have 10 different opinions.

My scenario is simply an oversimplification of the fact that most everyone I see posting here is tryiing to help and be supportive of people trying to get off using analogs, which for many is a hard thing to do.

Now, go and say 10 "HAILl PV's" and ye shall be forgiven!

 

[hifistud]

@Nightshadow - it's not just that, though - although I am a little concerned that the "smoking cessation device" mantra keeps on popping up, something I think is guaranteed to keep FDA interest fairly high.

No, it's running deeper than that - the almost "Live Aid for E-cigs" concert, for instance. Can't get my head round that, either.

I'm reminded of too many things that make me feel uneasy, and they seem unnecessary.

 

[NightShadow]

@hifistud,

I bet if you went to any other forum that was about any product where using it allowed people to get away from something really bad, you would find a similar sentiment.

If nic gum or patch etc were able to get as many people off cigs as easilly as PV's were, people (including me) would be all over those bandwagons I am sure.

I think it is human nature to advertise via word of mouth "or finger in this case" for things both good and bad. When we find something that is either really good or bad we want to tell others about it.

The FDA: Different subject, but I am sure many feel uneasy about the possibility of them arbitrarily banning stuff that simply works for most here. Yes it is a sad statement when people do not trust the government to make a descision based on fact and science rather than big money tobacco and pharma co. influence. Many in this group DO feel the need to tilt at windmills in the hopes of getting public attention/awareness, but while related to the cause of the effect you mention, may not be what you are getting at.

I still would not look at someone with an outstretched hand with scorn and opt to drown instead

I am not trying to allay any unneasiness you may have, suspicion can be a good thing, it is what keeps us alive. I just came here for info on pv's, then the tips and tricks for em, and am now trying to pay something back to the community that helped me.

 

[lordmage]

i am aware of the thread in question. some have said what they fell. a few have even said try and explain what you fell is wrong and we may be able to help you. something to consider when reading a post is one their post count to some that is a statement of how knowledgeable the person could be. to others it won't matter. i find that under most cases a few bad replies come about and a few really good ones come in as well. you have to take both the good and bad with forums after all it is the Internet not your home. As per the FDA as Hifi alluded to Claims of Safety,Health,NRT aka smoking cession makes the supplier and by extension of that the device fall under FDA control in the US.

Disclaimer you all have kept it civil thank you for that please continue to do so and this thread will remain open. it will be moved after all the statement determines it's best fit. this on is about the forum and not directly e-cigs moved to the general sub forum not relaiting with E-cigs

 

[LisaLisa]

I don't think it's cultish........I think that for people that are trying to quit cigarettes, this is the holy grail. I know it is for me.......and I"m really excited about it and I tell everyone that I know about it because I feel like I"ve found the greatest thing since sliced bread.

When talking to people I know, my enthusiasm might seem strange, but it's because I want to share this info with others that don't know about it with the hopes that it might help them as much as it's helping me.

I think this is where most people are coming from around here.

 

[Richie G]

However, what I'm seeing more and more in here is folks crusading, adopting holier than thou attitudes in terms of the "correct" usage of e-cigs, and how they are the saviour of all and so forth, and I'm becoming a little uneasy about it all.

There's a bloke posted that he want to sell his gear, because he can't get away with it. That's cool, but a few folk have chimed in with posts along the lines of "you can't have been doing it right" or "you should have said earlier, we could have helped". I find it faintly disquieting - they guy's tried it, didn't like it, end of, as far as I'm concerned. Anything more smacks of evangelising and seems just a tad , erm, cult-ish.

>

It's tough to read one's tone via text. I didn't sense "evangelizing" in the post in question. I sensed someone reaching out to help another which is usually the case here and on other forums. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm wrong, I dunno for sure.

But, one thing is certain here. There is a HUGE learning curve when one takes to PVs in lieu of analogs. HUGE. It's not just which device one likes, it's which liquid works best, tastes best, hits best, etc., etc., etc. Then, when we decide which, say, atomizer we like the most we find there are different manufacturers of similar atomizers and they all react differently. Couple different types of cartridges in, DIY cart fillers, DIY liquids and what we end up with is a plethora of combinations which could confuse Einstein.

When we finally decide, usually by elimination of what we don't like, on what we want most of us migrate to a mod of some sort. Now, the atomizer, cartridge and liquid of choice will vary from the standard e-cig battery. If one chooses to use high voltage it changes yet again. Suddenly liquid doesn't taste the same -- yadda yadda yadda.

So, it's easy to see how someone new to vaping could easily become discouraged. In the post you referred to, I didn't see an ex-smoker being condescending to a smoker -- if that is the correct analogy you inferred.

 

[frankwt]

What I have found is vaping is more trouble than it is worth, the shipping charges and costs are riducules...I smoke ultra light cigs but the only nic I can use is the heavy, so is there really nic in the solution?

Anyway, I keep using at home, more to attempt to quit cigs but the e-cig is really more trouble than it is worth and the costs very high for what you are getting. My cigs cost $15 a carton as I buy them on line. The no local support and the no local flavors to try are a put off too.

I will keep it up to try and stop real cigs but it is frustrating.

 

[NightShadow]

What I have found is vaping is more trouble than it is worth, the shipping charges and costs are riducules...I smoke ultra light cigs but the only nic I can use is the heavy, so is there really nic in the solution?

Anyway, I keep using at home, more to attempt to quit cigs but the e-cig is really more trouble than it is worth and the costs very high for what you are getting. My cigs cost $15 a carton as I buy them on line. The no local support and the no local flavors to try are a put off too.

I will keep it up to try and stop real cigs but it is frustrating.

Sorry to hear it is less than perfect for you, esp as I stopped smoking analogs the day my 510 arrived 3 weeks ago after 25+years smoking 1-2 packs a day habbit here. Happy you are still trying, hopefully you will find a way that works for you. The expense I could debate but will skip after saying that $15 a carton is not the end price you end up paying with analogs.

Yes e-cigs have a much steeper learning curve and a ton more variables than sticking an analog in mouth and lighting it on fire, but I don't think I ever had a local support experience with analogs either Besides support/info is what we came here for.

Perhaps a 2 piece cartomizer type would be eaiser or less fiddling for you, just a thought.

 

[Scottbee]

Anyway, I keep using at home, more to attempt to quit cigs but the e-cig is really more trouble than it is worth and the costs very high for what you are getting. My cigs cost $15 a carton as I buy them on line. The no local support and the no local flavors to try are a put off too.

$15 a carton is an amazing price. I was paying $80, and of course that had something to do with the justification for going over to PV's.

That, and the fact that there are fewer and fewer places where I can actually enjoy a traditional cigarette outside of my own home. And since I have a child, I don't smoke there either!

E-cigs have been liberating for me.

 

[kerrie]

I feel the exact same as the post directly above me so I won't reiterate- just felt the need to back em up!

 

[miketr]

Sure, there are some holier than thou folks on here who are absolutely certain that they know everything, that they have all the "right" answers. As on most forums. It's a personality type. In the same way there are plenty of helpful open minded people, and passive lurkers.
And I don't like seeing the postings some people make either, but I think that is part of the online territory. This appears to be a well behaved set of forums to me, relatively speaking. I am glad it is reviewed/moderated/whatever it's called. And we are all free to not be here, no one is twisting our arms to go read the forums. There are other options if someone is too incensed/offended by these forums.
I think obvious trolling and some other activities should be censored, certainly. But if we start excising peoples ability to speak their mind, I think it would be detrimental to the forums. If I am reading something and get uncomfortable, I just skip it and go on to the next person or topic.
Someone will decide they are offended by just about anything posted publically online. I believe that restricting criticism is the first step down a slippery slope that ends in a turgid forum and would lower its readability and usefulness.

 

[C2Girl]

Well I would not consider myself a veteran to the e cig in regards to posts, but have been analog free for over 6 months. The day I got my pv was the day I quit smoking. And let me tell you it was not easy right away. But I did it because mentally in my mind it was what I wanted to do. Like any addiction/habit YOU have to decide and be mentally prepared.

There is a learning curve, and this forum answered my many questions and was my support. I dont post a ton, but I do look at the new member area, and if time permits...I work and travel alot...I will help out. My thinking is, if I can hold a noobies hand or two in a week to get them through the rough patches I feel another life saved. You DO remember the ones that pull you through the hard frustrating times when you want to give up. I remember my first strong hands from here.

Then you pass that forward. There are always the downers and trolls on all internet forums...in one ear out the other. Keep strong and pursue through it.

I think we need a group hug.

 

[ZambucaLu]

OK, my 2 cents

I've been vaping since 11/08...but I still smoke analogs (more than I really like but 2 packs less than I used to, so I can live with it). To me, yes, vaping is a lot of work. Making sure everything is set to go before I leave for work, refilling/topping off during the day, batteries, juice, etc....a lot more for me to deal with when before, all I had to do was grab a couple of packs of cigs and a lighter and I was set for the day....and if I ran out, I could stop at several places to restock. Obviously not so easy with the ecig.

BUT....for me....going from 2.5 to 3 packs to less than a pack a day has made a difference in my life that I can't even describe. And yes, there have been times when it was so inconvenient, that I almost chucked the whole lot...but I kept at it. For me, even if I can vape most of the time (even if not all, but most)....I will continue to do so.

But just as anything else, vaping certainly isn't for everyone. First of all, it is not necessarily cheaper, depending on your own purchasing habits. And...like my son who smokes about a half pack of analogs a day....watched me and thought it was just too much trouble for the amount he smoked. I sometimes think the more you smoked before vaping, the more willing you are to keep at it only because really, who wants to go back to smoking 2-3 packs of cigs a day again? Anything seems better than that.

I think there's a good point that this member only has one post and is ready to pack it in. Perhaps if they talked with other members here while they were having problems they might have found some viable solutions...or at the very least, some moral support to help stick with it.

But this still doesn't negate the fact that vaping isn't for everyone and there are probably a lot of people who have tried it and quit it. This member just happened to speak up about it.

So as with any member here, we do not like to see anyone attacked for their decisions. There's a big difference between saying something like 'Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you but if you need some help, we're here' as opposed to 'Why didn't you say something before?'....the latter possibly putting the OP on the defensive or concerned about replying further.

The thread was closed because there is a procedure for member to member sales here so the post is being reviewed. In any event, I wish that member luck and hope they find peace with whatever they decide on.

Lu

 

[Tribalwolf]

As with anything "NEW" , There needs to be some drive and desire to help it work as well.

If you approach something with negative thoughts or the feeling it will fail .. It will ... No matter how much you try.

Same thing goes .. the alternative isnt for everyone. If you approach it with the attitude to completely end analogs then you may very well notice it more difficult then say "weening" yourself off of them slowly. You have to adopt the mentality that "This is a cigarette, and this is the same as that". Mind trickery in a sense but you have to believe what your doing and your mind will accept it.

It's clear it doesnt feel exactly the same , smell the same or maybe taste the same. If it did then that would be another story all together. ith belief behind the product that you will become healthier , smell better , become more approachable ect then you will merely be wasting your time and effort on something you never believed in to begin with.

My opinion only ofcourse.

 

[C2Girl]

LU....you still smoking girlfriend?