OK maybe THC CAN kill?!?!

[stratus.vaping]

Salutations Stratus.vaping,

> OK maybe THC CAN kill?!?!

IMO such formulation excludes crucial factors as the consumption method + its associated ritual, on top of industrial-grade processing combined to genetically promoting extreme cannabinoïd profiles at the expense of sprectrum (e.g. Full-cbd, 1:1 and THC-centric essentially). It seems to me the title itself was inspired by THC "strength" % arguments, recently debunked by activist Dana Larsen who wrote about "The marijuana potency myth" earlier this month, concluding that "science" now claims it to be 12600 times as potent as that of the '60s - which provides a touch of retrospective & humour i could certainly appreciate.



Relatively to home growing, until my province's law was declared unconstitutional, the way i thought of "Légaleezation" had to do with tightly-secured (terrorist-proof) indoor (bunker) cultivation which actually rejected decades or skilled artisan expertise, after performing some bogus nation-wide "consultation" culminating with this simple admission:

View attachment 840089
​

Which should be a reminder that my province's single 1 LP in 2016 even promised "kosher" while it was more reminescent of german Zyklon (...):

[ https:// www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/class-action-lawsuit-medical-cannabis-organigram-1.4986632 ]
CBC: Class-action lawsuit against OrganiGram gets green light (2019-Jan-21)​

It turns out Hexo/Hydropothecary worked hard to publish the non-detection level or myclobutanil, A Mari usque ad Mare:

[ http:// www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadians-not-told-about-banned-pesticide-found-in-medical-marijuana-supply/article33443887/ ]
G&M: Canadians not told about banned pesticide found in medical pot supply (2016-Dec-29)

[ https:// www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/banned-pesticide-found-at-medical-marijuana-company/article34882109/ ]
G&M: Banned pesticide found at medical marijuana company (2017-May-3)


​

Which apparently prompted "medical" clients to seek some more answers, eventually:

[ https:// www.theglobeandmail.com/cannabis/article-mysterious-symptoms-and-medical-marijuana-patients-are-looking-for/ ]
G&M - Mysterious symptoms and medical marijuana: patients are looking for answers (2017-Aug-19)​

...

Looking back at the whole sequence of significant events (revolving around Hilary Geller, Joy Davies, Bill Blair, Christian Gilbert, UNGASS 2016, Kevin Sabet/Nora Volkow and more...) i'm forced to believe our PM when he stated at the Toronto Star (on December 3, 2016) that this ain't meant to please recreative users. Overall his plan is brain-dead simple IMO: to VILIFY cannabis in a way to induce fear+suspicion in the consumers themselves, especially legally-vulnerable minors. Or more basically, to reverse the traditional safety reputation of cannabis...



Which is how 4 occurences of dead floating fish in river La Lièvre (so far...) compounded with a prospect of chronic self-poisoning by some "Schedule-3" item of the int'l Chemical Weapons Convention both belong to what i call "mari-caca" indeed.

Now please remember the pesticide list exploded, going from 13 to 96+ and counting (Washington WSDA/WSLCB i502 once had 200+)... This means many more poisons may have got their non-detection levels broadcasted, inviting all producers to explore non-detection soups, "legal" or otherwise.



The good news is that those having access to "cutting edge equipment like a gas chromatograph with a triple-quadrupole mass spectrometer" could probably manage to catch nearly half of the pesticides present on Health Canada's approved list. The bad news is that H.-C. is satisfied to publish a "recall" over contaminated mari-caca, though returns must be in original/unopened condition and take place in a matter of days.

Meanwhile there's still no true science adequately covering chronic pesticide soups inhalation...

Good day, have fun!!

jeez what a nightmare. This seems to be about myclobutanil contamination. As I mentioned elsewhere it's a fungicide ( I believe that is it's only horticultural use), if they have to use it they are crap growers. Awful situation.

Wonder why the press there sometimes say it's a pesticide? Stupidity or what?

 

[Kprthevapr]

If grown indoors in a climate controlled environment, there's no need for any pesticides. Keeping your rooms at 78° keeps bugs and fungus out. Granted, unless you veg for a month or so the yield won't be as much as outdoor, but product will be much better.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Sloth Tonight,
Salutations Stratus.Vaping,

Egzoset are you in Québec by chance? I go to Montreal 1-2 times per year.

Affirmative, and i also happen to be looking for a volunteer who'd be willing to INDEPENDENTLY DUPLICATE & PEER REVIEW semi-DiY vaporist experiments i've published around the net since the creation of my alias in 2010. Assuming it were possible to protect each other's private identity i actually happen to have a fully customized Bronze/Sherlock VG pipe inherited from a guy who's now driven into the consumption of other substances. It's illustrated below:

This is a pair of "Prototyping Platforms" demonstrating what i call "Micro-Bursting", combined to approximative "Packetization" of the "Heat Charge" so it fits its intended bowl Workload in an attempt to discriminately target trichomes based on contact surface, etc...

Anyway you'll find some e-Cig related considerations posted in the Cannabis Forum section, with more details spread elsewhere, as on my Hack-a-Day pages. Etc., etc.

...it's a fungicide... Wonder why the press there sometimes say it's a pesticide? Stupidity or what?

IMHO it's simply because Health Canada put it on a list of pesticides:

[ https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/drugs-health-products/cannabis-testing-pesticide-list-limits.html ]
Mandatory cannabis testing for pesticide active ingredients - List and limits​

One other interesting detail being about a previously BANNED "pesticide" now apparently tolerated if concentrations range around the minimal target identified by Hexo/Hydropothecary a few years ago already... As far as i'm concerned it's still turning into HCN (e.g. Zyklon gas) and i can only imagine how many more "traces" remain open to similar criticism as mine!

Good day, have fun!!

 

[ScottP]

Salutations Stratus.Vaping,

> OK maybe THC CAN kill?!?!

IMO such formulation excludes crucial factors as the consumption method + its associated ritual, on top of industrial-grade processing combined to genetically promoting extreme cannabinoïd profiles at the expense of sprectrum (e.g. Full-CBD, 1:1 and THC-centric essentially). It seems to me the title itself was inspired by THC "strength" % arguments, recently debunked by activist Dana Larsen who wrote about "The marijuana potency myth" earlier this month, concluding that "science" now claims it to be 12600 times as potent as that of the '60s - which provides a touch of retrospective & humour i could certainly appreciate.



Relatively to home growing, until my province's law was declared unconstitutional, the way i thought of "Légaleezation" had to do with tightly-secured (terrorist-proof) indoor (bunker) cultivation which actually rejected decades or skilled artisan expertise, after performing some bogus nation-wide "consultation" culminating with this simple admission:

View attachment 840089
​

Which should be a reminder that my province's single 1 LP in 2016 even promised "kosher" while it was more reminescent of german Zyklon (...):

[ https:// www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/class-action-lawsuit-medical-cannabis-organigram-1.4986632 ]
CBC: Class-action lawsuit against OrganiGram gets green light (2019-Jan-21)​

It turns out Hexo/Hydropothecary worked hard to publish the non-detection level or myclobutanil, A Mari usque ad Mare:

[ http:// www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadians-not-told-about-banned-pesticide-found-in-medical-marijuana-supply/article33443887/ ]
G&M: Canadians not told about banned pesticide found in medical pot supply (2016-Dec-29)

[ https:// www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/banned-pesticide-found-at-medical-marijuana-company/article34882109/ ]
G&M: Banned pesticide found at medical marijuana company (2017-May-3)


​

Which apparently prompted "medical" clients to seek some more answers, eventually:

[ https:// www.theglobeandmail.com/cannabis/article-mysterious-symptoms-and-medical-marijuana-patients-are-looking-for/ ]
G&M - Mysterious symptoms and medical marijuana: patients are looking for answers (2017-Aug-19)​

...

Looking back at the whole sequence of significant events (revolving around Hilary Geller, Joy Davies, Bill Blair, Christian Gilbert, UNGASS 2016, Kevin Sabet/Nora Volkow and more...) i'm forced to believe our PM when he stated at the Toronto Star (on December 3, 2016) that this ain't meant to please recreative users. Overall his plan is brain-dead simple IMO: to VILIFY cannabis in a way to induce fear+suspicion in the consumers themselves, especially legally-vulnerable minors. Or more basically, to reverse the traditional safety reputation of cannabis...



Which is how 4 occurences of dead floating fish in river La Lièvre (so far...) compounded with a prospect of chronic self-poisoning by some "Schedule-3" item of the int'l Chemical Weapons Convention both belong to what i call "mari-caca" indeed.

Now please remember the pesticide list exploded, going from 13 to 96+ and counting (Washington WSDA/WSLCB i502 once had 200+)... This means many more poisons may have got their non-detection levels broadcasted, inviting all producers to explore non-detection soups, "legal" or otherwise.



The good news is that those having access to "cutting edge equipment like a gas chromatograph with a triple-quadrupole mass spectrometer" could probably manage to catch nearly half of the pesticides present on Health Canada's approved list. The bad news is that H.-C. is satisfied to publish a "recall" over contaminated mari-caca, though returns must be in original/unopened condition and take place in a matter of days.

Meanwhile there's still no true science adequately covering chronic pesticide soups inhalation...

Good day, have fun!!

Informative post, but now I think trying to read all those colors gave me eye cancer.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations ScottP,

...gave me eye cancer.

Integral quoting does something similar to me but i won't say where it hurts.

 

[RoseB]

Some black market growers will spray their crops with anything. Some of the legal sprays are in the very least, questionable.
The leading cause of death: we all die of something eventually

 

[Egzoset]

I prefer bio.

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

iirc there are no real nuisance pests for the hemp/cannabis family

Ohhh quite the contrary.
Spider mites, thrips, aphids... just to name a few !
Pesticides are sadly widely used, especially in indoor cannabis gardens.
Some go an alternative route and use predatory insects to devour the problem insects.
However, it's been discovered that smoking the feces of those predatory bugs is quite bad for humans.
Do most people know this ? No. If they do know it, will they stop the practice ? Possibly, possibly not.
I have seen growers spray copious amounts of Eagle 20 (fungicide) right onto mature flowers (outdoor crop).
Terrible situation... at least in California our cannabis (in the dispensaries) are tested for fungicides, pesticides, mold, chemical fertilizers, before they can be sold.
I feel bad for the other places in this country and world that don't have this in place.
The more you know, the better off you'll be.

 

[stratus.vaping]

Ohhh quite the contrary.
Spider mites, thrips, aphids... just to name a few !
Pesticides are sadly widely used, especially in indoor cannabis gardens.
Some go an alternative route and use predatory insects to devour the problem insects.
However, it's been discovered that smoking the feces of those predatory bugs is quite bad for humans.
Do most people know this ? No. If they do know it, will they stop the practice ? Possibly, possibly not.
I have seen growers spray copious amounts of Eagle 20 (fungicide) right onto mature flowers (outdoor crop).
Terrible situation... at least in California our cannabis (in the dispensaries) are tested for fungicides, pesticides, mold, chemical fertilizers, before they can be sold.
I feel bad for the other places in this country and world that don't have this in place.
The more you know, the better off you'll be.

@DJ Colonel Corn Maybe so, I was speaking of my personal experiences, you have seen it yourself so I bow to your experience in the USA (?)

Never in Europe, in my direct experience of growing outdoor ( a lot, a lot lot... impossible now), in the 1970s did I see any "nuisance" infestation of anything. I had some aphid, but not much of a problem, a few ladybirds kept them under control. I had more problems with roaming deer eating whole plants!

I have used organic methods for growing everything since I started in 1969 with veg, never used anything nasty, in 3 different fairly mild climates around the world, I have never grown in the USA.

So I guess the USA situation must be different then, more humid, hotter, fewer predators, birds etc = more pests? I still know a few outdoor hobby stealth growers in UK, they don't have serious problems.

If you have to spray anything you are doing it wrong basically, indoor particularly. A problem may be that indoor illegal crops of any scale find it hard to vent air outside ( it stinks!) so humidity can be much too high = mould.
Skill level is low, profit motive rules, spray everything all the time just in case & use slave locked in illegal immigrants to tend it. The grows are heavily artificially fertilsed ofc, with growth hormones and day/night cycle controlled.

I haven't touched street THC for many decades because of all that as I have mentioned before. CBD product I use has to have fully checkable lab reports inc chemical residues, not easy to find sadly.

So, I must add a rider to my posts more often= YMMV, in my experience etc!

 

[Tabac man]

My dad had a fairly comprehensive garden when I was growing up in the sixties and seventies. He used pesticides with gay abandon on our veg because he had to or it wouldn't survive. Worms, slugs, snails, caterpillars, green fly, butterfly's you name it, were all around in abundance. It had to be done. In the West coast of Scotland anyway. Never did me any harm.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations,

Simple basic questions:

1. Can trichome glands get faked?
2. Would it pass microscope inspection??

Bonus question:

1. Of those 2 "largest nugget of a deal" which one was "legal" from SQdC???

Now imagine vegetal debris...

Good day, have fun!!

 

[stratus.vaping]

Salutations,

Simple basic questions:

1. Can trichome glands get faked?
2. Would it pass microscope inspection??

Bonus question:

1. Of those 2 "largest nugget of a deal" which one was "legal" from SQdC???

View attachment 842671​

Now imagine vegetal debris...

Good day, have fun!!

The image is waaaay too fuzzy to see anything 8) Fake trichomes? I can't see why anyone would bother, they arrive naturally if grown correctly. They may have not a great deal in them, a lab report would tell you about that.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Stratus.Vaping,

The image is waaaay too fuzzy...

Certainly not fuzzy enough to erase all evidence that one of those 2 nuggets is ~3 times the size of the other (and that's only about size or there wouldn't have been a need to include any ruler as some hint in between)....

Fake trichomes? I can't see why anyone would bother...

M'well, i thought that was an easy question. Personally i've seen nuggets which had their trichome glands "tumbled", once even "blasted", though i yet got to hear of fake trichomes that look like this, mechanically speaking:

...they arrive naturally if grown correctly.

Besides nugget size another early sign which i like to appreciate is its calixes, then after using a grinder i'd say texture needs to be a mix mostly reminescent of salt & sugar as when the atmosphere feels slightly damp, complemented with some screaching sound as i stirr it up.

They may have not a great deal in them...

Trichomes in principle or those in my previous pair of samples?

In any case my consumption method is focussed on trichome glands.

Good day, have fun!!

 

[stratus.vaping]

Salutations Stratus.Vaping,



Certainly not fuzzy enough to erase all evidence that one of those 2 nuggets is ~3 times the size of the other (and that's only about size or there wouldn't have been a need to include any ruler as some hint in between)....



M'well, i thought that was an easy question. Personally i've seen nuggets which had their trichome glands "tumbled", once even "blasted", though i yet got to hear of fake trichomes that look like this, mechanically speaking:

View attachment 842907​

Besides nugget size another early sign which i like to appreciate is its calixes, then after using a grinder i'd say texture needs to be a mix mostly reminescent of salt & sugar as when the atmosphere feels slightly damp, complemented with some screaching sound as i stirr it up.



Trichomes in principle or those in my previous pair of samples?

In any case my consumption method is focussed on trichome glands.

Good day, have fun!!

Ah you mean bud that has the trichome contents removed! Tumbled eh, good description. I would have thought that the flowers would be damaged a lot more though.

I have never seen that, but ofc it would be worthwhile to do it, if you were a shark. I have never dealt with sharks.

Keep on pressing 8)

 

[Egzoset]

High again Stratus.Vaping,

I would have thought that the flowers would be damaged a lot more though.

My previous sample was OKay, actually it dates back to "the good old days" BEFORE "Légaleezation"... Alternately, rest assured it was no pleasant photo session trying to capture any composite snapshot as what's shown next...

I have never dealt with sharks.

Although that ain't part of my routine neither i decided to give it a try:

This is a typical response given to those who dare ask for lots of THC with aroma/taste features and some light amount of CBD. Industrially processed, clearly overpriced & overtaxed. Which is a punishment for supporting the new "legal" system, pretending to "save" the lost statistically-elusive kids of planet Itnoc.

My initial point still being that oil looks like oil looks like oil looks like oil, e.g. dealing with oil it's simply too convenient for sharks to fake oil exactly.

Good day, have fun!!

 

[casuald00d]

He loved weed. Then the vomiting began. Months later, he died

I am posting this to maybe raise some awareness as I had never heard of this before. Like everything else moderation is going to be key. Of course there could also be some other circumstances they didn't account for.

yeah okay... and some people are allergic to water: Aquagenic urticaria | Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center (GARD) – an NCATS Program

i always hear about how avocados are a "super food" and yet when i eat them i develop hives, swelling, etc. in other words, i'm allergic to avocados. so what's good for one person is not necessarily good for everyone. that's my takeaway from this. i think the same can be said for vaping. personally, i've found that certain e-liquids, perhaps it's the flavorings used, don't mesh well with me. they give me a strange feeling in my lungs when i vape them so i stay away from them and stick to ones that don't seem to cause any apparent issues.

 

[DJ Colonel Corn]

I haven't touched street THC for many decades because of all that as I have mentioned before. CBD product I use has to have fully checkable lab reports inc chemical residues, not easy to find sadly.

I could almost envy you !
That's quite impressive. Sadly, I haven't been as fortunate.
The compound that is causing the 'cyanide release' in THC cartridges is a fungicide known in USA as Eagle 20, which has been banned in California (people can still order it online however). It's used to combat 'powdery mildew', a fungus that attacks plants here. Happens indoor and outdoor, usually caused by overcrowding or poor ventilation, as you said.
The problem is, when you concentrate cannabis, you also concentrate any chemicals used.
It also concentrates other things we thought harmless, such as, predatory bugs' feces.
Turns out some can be quite dangerous.

So, vapers, I found THIS today coming out of Tennessee....(image below)
I have to say here that in over 55 years of hash oil vaping in USA and over 130 years of recorded hash oil vaping, there has been very few cases of 'Acute Lipoid Pneumonia'.
I find all of this quite suspect.
However, here it is, feel free to share with the CAVEAT that 'acute lipoid penumonia' may not be the actual problem we're facing, it has not yet been fully determined the cause of 'vaping pnuemonia', as far as I know.
Here's the image (click on it to see full size):

I'm going to contact tnsmokefree.org about this image, to tell them we don't know if its lipoid pneumonia or not. Seems a shame to damage the name of hashish (why is that censored, hash is ok but h-a-s-h-i-s-h has not been removed from the banned words list yet, contacted moderator) (EDIT: the word 'hashish' has been un-censored, thanks !) like that.
I personally have vaped extreme amounts of hash oil in various forms, albeit very few cartridges, with no sign of pneumonia or anything else, for seven years solid.
I find hashish is much better on my lungs as there is less material consumed for equal medication levels.
All the best !

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations DJ Colonel Corn,

I find all of this quite suspect.

Here's one item which has changed quite significantly in recent months:

...some eye opener:

[ https:// www.leafly.com/news/industry/lab-shopping-thc-inflation-marijuana-2019-leafly-review ]
Leafly: 40% THC Flower?! How Lab Shopping and THC Inflation Cheat Cannabis Consumers (2019-Aug-8)

The article explains that such apparent quality improvement only reflects a potentially dangerous adaptation, also pointing out that failed "legal" products become "illegal" ones as i recall...

...when you concentrate cannabis, you also concentrate any chemicals used.

It also concentrates other things we thought harmless, such as, predatory bugs' feces. Turns out some can be quite dangerous.

Absolutely correct, and the problem with it is that the numerous effects don't just add up: they multiply, much the same as alcohol vs precribed medication for example. Then there's another elephant in the room few members seem prepared to consider: cooking.

Which is why i now believe although the "pen" format was very popular so far you people need to redesign the atomizer in order to remove as much Conductive Heat as possible. After all such repeated exposure at the contact surface of a coil to high temperature must be expected to promote all sorts of secondary reactions NOT intended in the initial e-Cig invention.

So, as i already pointed out, the most obvious solution to me seems to be to maximize the value of natural trichome glands as this happens to be effective filtration biologically performed on a molecular basis already. Starting from there i'd also strongly suggest to take advantage of such trichome quantization in tandem with a "packetized" Convective Heat source with its baking effect radically limited to a minimum between 2 tokes.

The technology existed for nearly 30-some years and it's readily compatible with the most basic form of IH-driver imaginable. Which by the way somehow makes me wonder if the negative slope illustrated above donesn't also coïncide with recent improvement of the battery technology, still in absence of metered dosing in the consumption method.

In any case, government officials blaming the "illicit" market are only broadcasting a slim part of the reality, not to mention there's non "legal" cannabis of such high quality it makes no sense to compare anyway since it's a matter of trusting the cultivator's skills and motivations: e.g. it wasn't failure to pay taxes that killed but greed in the 1st place.

Now lets see if contaminated mari-caca kills users of the other consumption methods as well. Maybe not as fast, yet eventually. Then common features as baking shall provide supplement hints hopefully...

Good day, have fun!!

 

[Sloth Tonight]

I could almost envy you !
That's quite impressive. Sadly, I haven't been as fortunate.
The compound that is causing the 'cyanide release' in THC cartridges is a fungicide known in USA as Eagle 20, which has been banned in California (people can still order it online however). It's used to combat 'powdery mildew', a fungus that attacks plants here. Happens indoor and outdoor, usually caused by overcrowding or poor ventilation, as you said.
The problem is, when you concentrate cannabis, you also concentrate any chemicals used.
It also concentrates other things we thought harmless, such as, predatory bugs' feces.
Turns out some can be quite dangerous.

So, vapers, I found THIS today coming out of Tennessee....(image below)
I have to say here that in over 55 years of hash oil vaping in USA and over 130 years of recorded hash oil vaping, there has been very few cases of 'Acute Lipoid Pneumonia'.
I find all of this quite suspect.
However, here it is, feel free to share with the CAVEAT that 'acute lipoid penumonia' may not be the actual problem we're facing, it has not yet been fully determined the cause of 'vaping pnuemonia', as far as I know.
Here's the image (click on it to see full size):

I'm going to contact tnsmokefree.org about this image, to tell them we don't know if its lipoid pneumonia or not. Seems a shame to damage the name of hashish (why is that censored, hash is ok but h-a-s-h-i-s-h has not been removed from the banned words list yet, contacted moderator) like that.
I personally have vaped extreme amounts of hash oil in various forms, albeit very few cartridges, with no sign of pneumonia or anything else, for seven years solid.
I find hashish is much better on my lungs as there is less material consumed for equal medication levels.
All the best !

Hashish has been uncensored

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations DJ Colonel Corn,

The compound that is causing the 'cyanide release' in THC cartridges is a fungicide known in USA as Eagle 20, which has been banned in California (people can still order it online however). It's used to combat 'powdery mildew', a fungus that attacks plants here.

That's the case in Canada as well and this September article of the Daily Star confirms the ban:

[ https:// www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/black-market-cannabis-vapes-china-20321313 ]
DS: Black market cannabis vapes from China found to contain cyanide (2019-Sep-28)

Myclobutanil is banned in Canada, Colorado, Washington, and Oregon for the production of medical and recreational marijuana.​

Which seems relative as there are at least 4 "full-registered" products listed as Nova (#22399), Eagle (#26585), Myclobutanil (#27916), Golden Eagle (#29974). All from Dow AgroSciences Canada, Inc.:

So it's still going to be around for a long while, except i get the persistent feeling that "mandatory cannabis testing for pesticide active ingredients" and "limits of quantification" might require deceiphering performed by a professional lawyer to fully appreciate the exact wording... Because in the end what's banned is not unless myclobutanil non-detection "traces" is no myclobutanil anymore, then beware of ingredients kept secret simply because not "active"!

That's some kind of cat 'n mouse head games worthy of a red flag IMO. What i think this really means is that it's OKay to spray using practically anything provided the "traces" won't trigger an alarm, which just doesn't correspond to my own definition of a ban. Also i find Health Canada's history was less than "negligible", to recycle their own term... Not to mention that even if there's an alarm the LPs remain in business anyway.



By chance investors ain't this accomodating so i keep hoping in due justice being rendered eventually, the sooner the better.

Good day, have fun!!