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Well, you will always hear good and bad. I have a GLV2 that takes two stacked 3.7 volts, regulated to 5 volts. I've never had an issue with it. Of course, if you're stacking batteries, you should always have good quality, protected batteries. And make sure to never over-discharge them. If the battery life decreases noticeably, it's time for new batteries. And of course, never mix batteries, but that's a given. I don't see that much danger in stacking batteries as long as you follow a few guidelines. I have however, recently upgraded to a Provari. Takes a single 1100 mAh AW 18490, and they include two in the kit. I prefer it that way, and it makes sure that I never end up waiting on batteries to charge. I do believe the Silver Bullet is safe to stack in, as I've never heard of any issues, and only heard great things about it. But I've also never personally used one. Just make sure whatever you're stacking in has a vent hole, just in case.
99% of the mods that take 2 batteries are stacking them. Box mod or tube mod.
There is no "safe" battery. Of any type. Flashlights, cars, cell-phones, laptops, e-cigs. Some are safER.
The not-while-charging issues that I know of to date are with stacked cells. See ECF's recommendations for battery safety. And keep up on them as/if they change.
Protected cells are best. Some mods require high-drain cells, but use safer chemistry (IMR). Also quality varies a lot so use good cells from trusted vendors and do your best to avoid knock-offs/bogus batteries.
Provangelist makes several good points. VENTS or blow-out plugs (duh) are the most important IMO along with protection and/or fuses.
I've used 2-cells-in-series box mods for almost 2 years without issue.
There's no way to list the mods. You have to research.
There is no "safe" battery. Of any type. Flashlights, cars, cell-phones, laptops, e-cigs. Some are safER.
The not-while-charging issues that I know of to date are with stacked cells. See ECF's recommendations for battery safety. And keep up on them as/if they change.
Protected cells are best. Some mods require high-drain cells, but use safer chemistry (IMR). Also quality varies a lot so use good cells from trusted vendors and do your best to avoid knock-offs/bogus batteries.
Provangelist makes several good points. VENTS or blow-out plugs (duh) are the most important IMO along with protection and/or fuses.
I've used 2-cells-in-series box mods for almost 2 years without issue.
There's no way to list the mods. You have to research.
I used stacked batts in the SB, Buzz and Buzz Pro, and several other box mods.......I still use them but follow the guidelines of attypops and provangelist
I also use a Provari and Lavatube that don't have stacked batts.......Never had a prob with them stacked.......I use aw IMR batts and pay attention to when they're running out of juice......just my nickel
I also use a Provari and Lavatube that don't have stacked batts.......Never had a prob with them stacked.......I use aw IMR batts and pay attention to when they're running out of juice......just my nickel
There is always a danger with stacked batteries.
Remember when you had your old walkman, when the tape started playing slower (sounding like demonic voices in your head) you would take the batteries out and swap them around. That usually allowed it to work for another 30 minutes or so.
The reason why this is happening is because one battery drains faster than the other.
With higher capacity batteries this can become an issue, but you likely won't see it as long as you don't mix and match, or try to swap around the batteries like you did with your old walkman.
Remember when you had your old walkman, when the tape started playing slower (sounding like demonic voices in your head) you would take the batteries out and swap them around. That usually allowed it to work for another 30 minutes or so.
The reason why this is happening is because one battery drains faster than the other.
With higher capacity batteries this can become an issue, but you likely won't see it as long as you don't mix and match, or try to swap around the batteries like you did with your old walkman.
Whenever I stack batteries, I always buy, use and maintain them as a pair/set. If one has a problem or acts differently than the other, I will pitch the pair. If not, it would become very easy to put a mismatched pair in a stacked device.
When stacking, a protected battery such as the AW black label is preferred. If using the IMR types (with no built-in protection circuit), care should be taken that the batteries are not over discharged. This is not a problem with a protection PCB. Some voltage regulators inside devices may not cut off until the input voltage is very low, 4.5 volts for example. In this case, the individual battery voltage may be as low as 2.25 volts. This is MUCH too low to discharge a lithium battery. If using unprotected batteries, pay VERY close attention to how low you allow the batteries to discharge to.
In practice, never use any battery smaller than a 14500. Smaller batteries are not designed to deliver the higher currents you are seeking with the stacked battery configuration.
When stacking, a protected battery such as the AW black label is preferred. If using the IMR types (with no built-in protection circuit), care should be taken that the batteries are not over discharged. This is not a problem with a protection PCB. Some voltage regulators inside devices may not cut off until the input voltage is very low, 4.5 volts for example. In this case, the individual battery voltage may be as low as 2.25 volts. This is MUCH too low to discharge a lithium battery. If using unprotected batteries, pay VERY close attention to how low you allow the batteries to discharge to.
In practice, never use any battery smaller than a 14500. Smaller batteries are not designed to deliver the higher currents you are seeking with the stacked battery configuration.
thanks for all the information! this clears a lot of things up! i've been reading a lot about batteries and a lot of time people say DONT STACK BATTERIES! so all the mods i look at, when i see stacked batteries, i get turned off from buying them...then some other people say the mods they use have stacked batteries and everything is going great!.. lol talk about confusing! ...thanks for clearing it all up!
Also, good point to have a good charger. Like the nice Pila chargers that go into standby when your batteries are fully charged. Never good to overcharge your batteries. Plus, I hear they can charge a battery from dead to full in like 20 minutes.
We stack batteries in flashlights and in anything that needs more voltage than one battery can deliver. Lithium ion batteries blow up in flashlights like they do in ecigs. The problem is matching batteries so that one doesn't drain quickly and allow the other one try to balance the charge by reverse charging the other. Li-ion batts don't like to be charged quickly. They like slow charges that don't create a lot of heat.
IMR batteries are safer than Li-ion. That said, they can go into failure mode, also. The good part is that they don't fail as violently as Li-ion batts and aren't as likely to create explosive pressures, just high heat. IMR is said not to have a failure mode that results in venting.
Any charger that charges a high current battery in 20 minutes is dangerous. Even AA and AAA batts that do the 15 minute charges are different chemistry than nicads. I use a 15 minute charger to charge Ray-O-Vac 15 minute NIMH quick charge chemistry AAA batteries all the time, but they get way warmer than I like. The manufacturer says that's normal, but It seems abnormal to me. I do like the 15 minute AAA charge, though.
IMR batteries are safer than Li-ion. That said, they can go into failure mode, also. The good part is that they don't fail as violently as Li-ion batts and aren't as likely to create explosive pressures, just high heat. IMR is said not to have a failure mode that results in venting.
Any charger that charges a high current battery in 20 minutes is dangerous. Even AA and AAA batts that do the 15 minute charges are different chemistry than nicads. I use a 15 minute charger to charge Ray-O-Vac 15 minute NIMH quick charge chemistry AAA batteries all the time, but they get way warmer than I like. The manufacturer says that's normal, but It seems abnormal to me. I do like the 15 minute AAA charge, though.
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Stacked batteries are inherently more 'dangerous' than a single battery. If for no other reason, you now have two batteries that can explode rather than just one, so your chances are (by incorrect crude calculations) twice as high. The worry with stacking batteries is additional strain ultimately leading to venting and even an explosion. However, using stacked batteries can be done relatively safely, BUT, how safe this is depends on the USER more so than using a single battery...
Stacking batteries can be made safer provided you:
-use either a protected series or the IMR for high drain use. The IMRs are better suited in some situations than the protected cells.
-buy GOOD batteries...that extra $2 on the AW batteries DOES make a difference
-buy a good charger...that extra $20 also makes a difference on safety and service life
-use two of the same batteries with the same life (paired)
-always test the batteries off of the charger to ensure they are equally charged and NOT overcharged (if they are charging differently, dont use them together)
-do not over-discharge the batteries as this can damage them and lead to a hazardous condition upon recharge
-use the correct battery if you are pulling a higher draw (again, the IMRs)
-NEVER place a freshly exhausted battery in charger
-NEVER place a freshly charged battery in a mod and use it
-occasionally check them mid way through a cycle...if one is discharging quicker than they other, replace the PAIR. This is the point in which an issue is most likely to occur, when the batteries start performing differently, especially if this difference is pronounced.
-keep a rough estimate of how many cycles they have been through, and do not exceed the maker's recommendations, if they have any
So for any battery use, you need a multimeter...but for stacked batteries, you really need a multimeter. Yes, stacked batteries can be safe despite them not being as safe as a single battery. Both can be very safe, but how safe depends on not just the quality of the equipment, but the user's correct usage and maintenance.
Stacking batteries can be made safer provided you:
-use either a protected series or the IMR for high drain use. The IMRs are better suited in some situations than the protected cells.
-buy GOOD batteries...that extra $2 on the AW batteries DOES make a difference
-buy a good charger...that extra $20 also makes a difference on safety and service life
-use two of the same batteries with the same life (paired)
-always test the batteries off of the charger to ensure they are equally charged and NOT overcharged (if they are charging differently, dont use them together)
-do not over-discharge the batteries as this can damage them and lead to a hazardous condition upon recharge
-use the correct battery if you are pulling a higher draw (again, the IMRs)
-NEVER place a freshly exhausted battery in charger
-NEVER place a freshly charged battery in a mod and use it
-occasionally check them mid way through a cycle...if one is discharging quicker than they other, replace the PAIR. This is the point in which an issue is most likely to occur, when the batteries start performing differently, especially if this difference is pronounced.
-keep a rough estimate of how many cycles they have been through, and do not exceed the maker's recommendations, if they have any
So for any battery use, you need a multimeter...but for stacked batteries, you really need a multimeter. Yes, stacked batteries can be safe despite them not being as safe as a single battery. Both can be very safe, but how safe depends on not just the quality of the equipment, but the user's correct usage and maintenance.
The Protected ones, if you can use protected non-high-drain, will cut off if they get too low. I usually end up running my protected batteries to cut-off simply because I don't measure voltage every 10 minutes or have a meter built-in. Can't tell. Sometimes I manage to catch it and recharge early. So with protected batts, the PCB will tell you.
With the non-protected batteries, you'd need some way of measuring the voltage of EACH battery and making sure it's OK. You could assume they are the same and measure the voltage of the INPUT side of the regulator and divide by 2 for series batteries. However, see post #5 in this thread.
Best not to let any battery go below 3.0 volts IMO. Most protection PCB's cut off at around 2.75 volts, but they do that to show as many mAh as possible for the battery. I don't see a reason to go that low if you are bothering to measure the actual battery cell voltages.
Also, your target voltage matters as well as the device's drop out (the voltage drop across the regulator). So a given regulator may need 1 "extra" volt above it's target output voltage. They usually use LDO (Low Drop Out) regulators though. But who the heck knows for sure, depending on the mod.
Anyway, that's probably more than you wanted to know. So short answer (best guess).... 3.0 volts for the lowest cell in the set = time to recharge the set. Probably best to recharge at 3.59 due to faster drop off at the "end". See post below.
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I have IMR 18650 3.7V 1600mAh batteries and I recharge them at 3.5 to 3.6 --is this okay?
Li-Ion batteries don't have a memory. It's the charging that wears them out though. However partial charges only count as partial wear, as I understand it.
So, is it "OK"? Sure, as far as I know. Now, the real question... Is it the best time?
That depends on your APV/Mod. Are you using an all mechanical mod that vapes off battery voltage? Or something regulated? What Atty/carto and what ohms is it? (asked due to "feel" of HV vaping and if you could tell by the vape if it's time.)
The 3.7/3.6 range is the normal battery operating rage. It starts at 4.2 but drops quickly to 3.7/3.6 and stays around there the longest. Then it drops off faster from 3.5 volts to min volts. So 3.5 (or even less than 3.6... 3.59) is good, since it will drop off fast at that point anyway.
I edited my post above to reflect this.
Here's a chart. BUT... you have to check the data FOR YOUR PARTICULAR BATTERY... this chart is not IMR, for example. And not all IMRs are the same.
Bottom line here is to see that steep cliff at the right. At 3.60v it drops down to whatever your cutoff is very fast. I just let the protected battery PCB catch that since it's only a few vapes at that point. And I've made good use of the battery. However, without a monitoring circuit of some sort, 3.60 is probably a great target.
You may be able to catch that point "by feel". Or maybe you enjoy hooking a multi-meter up to your mod every puff. Or maybe your mod has internal monitoring and so you just let it cut out at whatever it cuts out at. Maybe your mod has a battery voltage display as well as an atomizer voltage display (they may not the same thing, BTW... depends on the mod. All mechanical mods are close to the same, minus switch/wire resistance. Mods with regulators tho.... different things.)
Personally, IDK how you "battery monitoring dudes/dudettes" even do it. I use protected batteries or devices with built-in monitoring (like an eGo, LT or such).
The other important point is to check the voltages BEFORE you put stacked batteries into the MOD. This is to check starting voltages, not cut off voltages. You don't want them to be mis-matched. This was mentioned by others above too. This is imported for two-battery mods. Those that take a single IMR battery, not as important, although not a bad idea to verify that the battery is charging properly and holding a charge.
So, is it "OK"? Sure, as far as I know. Now, the real question... Is it the best time?
That depends on your APV/Mod. Are you using an all mechanical mod that vapes off battery voltage? Or something regulated? What Atty/carto and what ohms is it? (asked due to "feel" of HV vaping and if you could tell by the vape if it's time.)
The 3.7/3.6 range is the normal battery operating rage. It starts at 4.2 but drops quickly to 3.7/3.6 and stays around there the longest. Then it drops off faster from 3.5 volts to min volts. So 3.5 (or even less than 3.6... 3.59) is good, since it will drop off fast at that point anyway.
I edited my post above to reflect this.
Here's a chart. BUT... you have to check the data FOR YOUR PARTICULAR BATTERY... this chart is not IMR, for example. And not all IMRs are the same.
Bottom line here is to see that steep cliff at the right. At 3.60v it drops down to whatever your cutoff is very fast. I just let the protected battery PCB catch that since it's only a few vapes at that point. And I've made good use of the battery. However, without a monitoring circuit of some sort, 3.60 is probably a great target.
You may be able to catch that point "by feel". Or maybe you enjoy hooking a multi-meter up to your mod every puff. Or maybe your mod has internal monitoring and so you just let it cut out at whatever it cuts out at. Maybe your mod has a battery voltage display as well as an atomizer voltage display (they may not the same thing, BTW... depends on the mod. All mechanical mods are close to the same, minus switch/wire resistance. Mods with regulators tho.... different things.)
Personally, IDK how you "battery monitoring dudes/dudettes" even do it. I use protected batteries or devices with built-in monitoring (like an eGo, LT or such).
The other important point is to check the voltages BEFORE you put stacked batteries into the MOD. This is to check starting voltages, not cut off voltages. You don't want them to be mis-matched. This was mentioned by others above too. This is imported for two-battery mods. Those that take a single IMR battery, not as important, although not a bad idea to verify that the battery is charging properly and holding a charge.
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99% of the mods that take 2 batteries are stacking them. Box mod or tube mod.
There is no "safe" battery. Of any type. Flashlights, cars, cell-phones, laptops, e-cigs. Some are safER.
The not-while-charging issues that I know of to date are with stacked cells. See ECF's recommendations for battery safety. And keep up on them as/if they change.
Protected cells are best. Some mods require high-drain cells, but use safer chemistry (IMR). Also quality varies a lot so use good cells from trusted vendors and do your best to avoid knock-offs/bogus batteries.
Provangelist makes several good points. VENTS or blow-out plugs (duh) are the most important IMO along with protection and/or fuses.
I've used 2-cells-in-series box mods for almost 2 years without issue.
There's no way to list the mods. You have to research.
Attypops pretty well summed it up. There is no such thing as a safe battery (they store energy), there are only "safer" batteries.
Stacking batteries only increases the opportunity for user error, or product failure.
Thanks Tj.
FYI - Not that I cross-post/cross-quote much, but here's an interesting post from another thread showing two batteries that have been shorted and how they performed. They were both IMR types.
Also, please understand what a particular APV's/mods requirement are and what the manufacturer recommends for them. You may not need IMR batteries if you don't draw too many amps. Those that require high-drain usually tell you... then you need to find out the amp draw and check the high-drain battery ratings to know that it can put out that many amps. Not all IMR cells are the same. Those in the video above are obviously different.
Check the specs for your mod AND for the specific battery.
Keep up on ECF's safety recommendations too.
EDIT:
It's not a bad idea to know a little about what you are doing. Try looking for an ohm's Law calculator. Particularly if you use Dual Coil Cartos. You have to compute the amp draw at whatever ohms/volts you are vaping.
Also, as a side note, I don't believe the stupid DIY e-cig, and battery stuff people posted on YouTube. OK, I do believe it, but some of it is just plain dumb/dangerous. One guy was disassembling a Li-Ion battery (dumb). Another made a DIY 5v (no battery) PT e-cig with no housing around the parts and open connections all over the place (dumb). Then he plugged it into a computer port (over amping it). Dumb is dumb. I know none of us are perfect, but sheesh!
FYI - Not that I cross-post/cross-quote much, but here's an interesting post from another thread showing two batteries that have been shorted and how they performed. They were both IMR types.
Also, please understand what a particular APV's/mods requirement are and what the manufacturer recommends for them. You may not need IMR batteries if you don't draw too many amps. Those that require high-drain usually tell you... then you need to find out the amp draw and check the high-drain battery ratings to know that it can put out that many amps. Not all IMR cells are the same. Those in the video above are obviously different.
Check the specs for your mod AND for the specific battery.
Keep up on ECF's safety recommendations too.
EDIT:
It's not a bad idea to know a little about what you are doing. Try looking for an ohm's Law calculator. Particularly if you use Dual Coil Cartos. You have to compute the amp draw at whatever ohms/volts you are vaping.
Also, as a side note, I don't believe the stupid DIY e-cig, and battery stuff people posted on YouTube. OK, I do believe it, but some of it is just plain dumb/dangerous. One guy was disassembling a Li-Ion battery (dumb). Another made a DIY 5v (no battery) PT e-cig with no housing around the parts and open connections all over the place (dumb). Then he plugged it into a computer port (over amping it). Dumb is dumb. I know none of us are perfect, but sheesh!
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Yes, this is a good level to recharge upon reaching. The lack of memory means that charging a lithium ion battery earlier (rather than later after a more substantial drain) actually puts less stress on it. Over-discharging a lithium ion battery can shorten its service life (outright kill the battery in some cases) and make it potentially more dangerous to use. By recharging around the point that you stated, you will prolong the service life and expose the battery to less potential 'stress'. The AW IMRs are great batteries to begin with, but a little extra care on any battery can go a long way. The Provari generally starts to give its low battery warning around 3.5 and shuts off around 3.2. Personally, I think 3.2 is a little lower than ideal and so I recharge right around 3.5-ish like yourself.
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