On the 8th....

[Chris54]

So for me, Mt Baker was taking a swipe at do it yourselfers who use their unflavored base and add flavoring.

 

[Chris54]

I smoked 50 unfiltered roll your owns per day for 42 years and I still routinely mix 18 mg DIY liquid. Keeps me off smoke. Don't assume everyone has the same nicotine habit.

 

[Opinionated]

I started out on 30 mg, on a joyetech 510 kit. I cut down to 24 mg about the time I started using eGo batteries I think. 18 mg would not have cut it for me, at all. I haven't bought e-liquid in years (I DIY), so I never paid attention to what strengths are being sold these days. I think it's mistake to remove higher levels, for the same reason you do.

I have never seen strengths higher than 24 mg, even when I first started vaping. But it seems almost universally post 8-8, that one of the highest strengths available is now 12mg.

I started on the 18mg. Because I was told that was comparable to a two pack a day, full flavor smoker.. although I honestly don't think so.

The device I started on, I could chain vape and still only consume 2ml of eliquid a day, and I think like smoking you probably don't absorb every mg of nicotine that is in the product. That said, unlike others who talk about having a smooth transition, I went through fairly strong withdrawal symptoms when I made the quit. But, with a battery paired with a good atomizer you can do a bit better as those ce4's were fairly well crap... but the consumption will be more, by necessity. it was darn hard to make the quit on 18mg... barely enough I think, and it was probably more the ability to chain vape through the withdrawals that helped. I doubt I could have quit on 12mg. without a much stronger set up, better battery and better atomizer. (Although those things would have been helpful for me when I initially quit too.. lol..)

I do see this mg. reduction as an outright attack on people like us though.. It's the FDA working with big tobacco to prevent people, or greatly hamper people from quitting smoking.

 

[HazyShades]

I started out on 30 mg, on a Joyetech 510 kit. I cut down to 24 mg about the time I started using eGo batteries I think. 18 mg would not have cut it for me, at all. I haven't bought e-liquid in years (I DIY), so I never paid attention to what strengths are being sold these days. I think it's mistake to remove higher levels, for the same reason you do.

I started at 36 mg/ml then cut down to 24, used 36 in the morning
but got a couple of tachycardias so I stayed at 24.
Recently I ran out and found some 18 I got from a friend 5 years back
and it was almost like the 36!

The first time I dripped I used 24 and coughed for a half hour..LOL

 

[Bonskibon]

I started at 24mg. and now down to 12mg. I think that some new juice makers think that everyone is a dripper or sub-ohm so don't find the need to make higher nic. levels available. One vendor I order from has 24mg. strength, but I get the 12mg. now for my tobacco flavor and my other flavors I use with 6mg.

 

[r055co]

My thought is juice is where we are going to see big business try and step in.. They just did in fact, a company "run by veterans of Dow and Proctor and Gamble" just began selling e juice.

This is what is going to happen, they will run all mom and pops out of business, then in pops big business, and after all competition is gone, the prices will rise.

That is what I thought prior to seeing this new e juice company, and them popping up is simple confirmation of this plan overall. I say get into diy.. it's probably going to be needed.

I absolutely refuse to buy anything from them, if they're the only ones in the market it will be 100% DiY for me.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[MyMagicMist]

Also deserving of support in my opinion is Virginia state representative Larry Faircloth who has a legit vaping lawsuit going against the FDA per the Public Health Law Center. Google him. And of course CASAA which is always deserving of a contribution. Having recently had the experience of the courts upholding my rights when politicians did not, I just feel the courts are vapers' best hope.

You mean this Larry Faircloth? The guy from West Virginia? I don't use Google. Apparently it does not search how I search, also there's privacy concerns. I do use another engine which serves me as good.

Larry Faircloth at DuckDuckGo
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Larry+Faircloth&t=canonical&ia=web
I like asking Ducky. Ducky can find things out for me real well. Ducky doesn't ask me questions in return. I also at times use Start Page, or Ixquick, Dmoz.

 

[MyMagicMist]

Keep telling yourself that. That's what got us here. I know it has been vogue to deny responsibility... but it really is falling out of style. We can actually name pretty much every single person who has had a hand in this to date. And, yes. They have political party in common. That's just reality. You can be mad about folks telling you the truth or whatever, but at this point, it doesn't do any good. ... At this point, you absolutely must apply pressure on the political party at fault. The only way to apply pressure is to deny them your support. If you refuse to deny them your support, then this particular issue wasn't important enough to you to do anything about. It's simple.

Want to make it even more simple? Stop voting, end of discussion. Over the past twenty to thirty years (possibly far longer) it has all been one sham after another. People are granted an illusion of choice where they're asked to vote for the lesser of two evils. Either way you vote, you're still voting for evil. Evil to me is immoral & unethical, I prefer to abstain from it. Yet we're told to vote to "make a difference".

that! Instead no longer consent to oblige in their petty little game where they make up the rules to suit only themselves. We each as human beings are Divinity. We've no need of any other human being our authority and no other human being is qualified to be that anyway. If you doubt that ask yourself if you would trust yourself to make the correct choices to assert authority in my life, for my best interests. If you cannot trust yourself, why trust anyone else doing the same for you?

 

[sofarsogood]

Call me a single issue voter. I'm voting against all incumbents at all levels of government unless I'm aware of a couragous action taken by one of them in support of vaping. I'm voting for Trump because if I have to be miserable I want company. I wish we could get rid of everybody in government, elected or otherwise, who knows what they are doing, and replace them with people who don't know what they are doing. May be then we would all work together to figure out what we ought to be doing.

 

[Vandal]

I have never seen strengths higher than 24 mg, even when I first started vaping. But it seems almost universally post 8-8, that one of the highest strengths available is now 12mg.

I started on the 18mg. Because I was told that was comparable to a two pack a day, full flavor smoker.. although I honestly don't think so.

The device I started on, I could chain vape and still only consume 2ml of eliquid a day, and I think like smoking you probably don't absorb every mg of nicotine that is in the product. That said, unlike others who talk about having a smooth transition, I went through fairly strong withdrawal symptoms when I made the quit. But, with a battery paired with a good atomizer you can do a bit better as those ce4's were fairly well crap... but the consumption will be more, by necessity. it was darn hard to make the quit on 18mg... barely enough I think, and it was probably more the ability to chain vape through the withdrawals that helped. I doubt I could have quit on 12mg. without a much stronger set up, better battery and better atomizer. (Although those things would have been helpful for me when I initially quit too.. lol..)

I do see this mg. reduction as an outright attack on people like us though.. It's the FDA working with big tobacco to prevent people, or greatly hamper people from quitting smoking.

I started at 36 mg/ml then cut down to 24, used 36 in the morning
but got a couple of tachycardias so I stayed at 24.
Recently I ran out and found some 18 I got from a friend 5 years back
and it was almost like the 36!

The first time I dripped I used 24 and coughed for a half hour..LOL

I used Intellicig ECOPure, which I purchased through Cignot, until they quit selling in the US (Intellicig were UK based). They offered 36mg and 24mg, which I mixed to come up with 30mg. 36mg was the highest end product I ever saw. I suppose that would be unheard of these days.

I did go through some withdrawal, but I think it was from the other chemicals in cigs and not from lack of nicotine. I had read that could happen. BTW, I am down to 10mg now.

 

[HazyShades]

36mg was the highest end product I ever saw. I suppose that would be unheard of these days.

MFS sells 48mg

 

[sos2001]

This week, I bought about 400ml of juice and a Provari (to put in the drawer to be used when needed)...next week, I'm planning to start the process of procuring DIY supplies. I don't know why that seems such a big hurdle for me...maybe because I'm a lousy cook...hell on the grill, but crappy at the stove.

 

[Opinionated]

I used Intellicig ECOPure, which I purchased through Cignot, until they quit selling in the US (Intellicig were UK based). They offered 36mg and 24mg, which I mixed to come up with 30mg. 36mg was the highest end product I ever saw. I suppose that would be unheard of these days.

I did go through some withdrawal, but I think it was from the other chemicals in cigs and not from lack of nicotine. I had read that could happen. BTW, I am down to 10mg now.

I think everyone is different concerning nicotine withdrawal verses withdrawal from the myriad of other chemicals found in cigarettes.

This week for the first time I decided to try dumping my nic level just to see if I felt any ill effects from foregoing nicotine. I had a few bottles of some 3 mg. That were sent to try free with various juice orders, so I went ahead and vaped those exclusively the last couple days.

For me, as I live with pain, I found a side effect of nicotine that I hadn't realized prior to now, and that is nicotine has a slight pain relieving effect. For me due to that I may not dump my nicotine level on any permanent basis, but I didn't have any kind of withdrawal or cravings, which you might expect going from 18mg. to 3mg. overnight (quite literally)

What I think is possible, is that the sedative effect of nicotine makes withdrawal from the other chemicals found in cigarettes easier. But nicotine alone, I'm not finding an addiction to personally.

I know they say the only active ingredient in cigarettes is nicotine, but after the experience of quitting via vaping, I'm not sure of that at all. There may be some kind of combination of chemicals that makes otherwise benign ingredients active, I'm not sure. But I didn't find an actual addiction to nicotine itself personally... Although only two days might not be long enough to tell with surety.

 

[Vandal]

I think everyone is different concerning nicotine withdrawal verses withdrawal from the myriad of other chemicals found in cigarettes.

This week for the first time I decided to try dumping my nic level just to see if I felt any ill effects from foregoing nicotine. I had a few bottles of some 3 mg. That were sent to try free with various juice orders, so I went ahead and vaped those exclusively the last couple days.

For me, as I live with pain, I found a side effect of nicotine that I hadn't realized prior to now, and that is nicotine has a slight pain relieving effect. For me due to that I may not dump my nicotine level on any permanent basis, but I didn't have any kind of withdrawal or cravings, which you might expect going from 18mg. to 3mg. overnight (quite literally)

What I think is possible, is that the sedative effect of nicotine makes withdrawal from the other chemicals found in cigarettes easier. But nicotine alone, I'm not finding an addiction to personally.

I know they say the only active ingredient in cigarettes is nicotine, but after the experience of quitting via vaping, I'm not sure of that at all. There may be some kind of combination of chemicals that makes otherwise benign ingredients active, I'm not sure. But I didn't find an actual addiction to nicotine itself personally... Although only two days might not be long enough to tell with surety.

As far as your some combination of chemicals idea, it would not surprise me in the least if BT did not do whatever it took to make cigarettes as addictive as possible and that their extensive research didn't come up with such a chemical combination. I worry what they may do with e-liquid.

 

[Bonskibon]

I worry what they may do with e-liquid.

A very valid concern. DIY will always win over whatever they come up with. I wouldn't buy any liquid from BT.

 

[Opinionated]

As far as your some combination of chemicals idea, it would not surprise me in the least if BT did not do whatever it took to make cigarettes as addictive as possible and that their extensive research didn't come up with such a chemical combination. I worry what they may do with e-liquid.

I definitely agree.

It was a push from BT as well as those stop smoking groups that made what is happening now in the vaping industry possible, and when they start adding chemicals to the juice as "preservatives", God only knows what they will put in, and the sale of products goes from a possibility to a certainty if people are addicted.

 

[Eskie]

This week, I bought about 400ml of juice and a Provari (to put in the drawer to be used when needed)...next week, I'm planning to start the process of procuring DIY supplies. I don't know why that seems such a big hurdle for me...maybe because I'm a lousy cook...hell on the grill, but crappy at the stove.

If you can mix a drink, you can DIY juice. I think coiling and wicking requires more skill than juice. Then again, I'm left handed.

 

[daviedog]

Want to make it even more simple? Stop voting, end of discussion. Over the past twenty to thirty years (possibly far longer) it has all been one sham after another. People are granted an illusion of choice where they're asked to vote for the lesser of two evils. Either way you vote, you're still voting for evil. Evil to me is immoral & unethical, I prefer to abstain from it. Yet we're told to vote to "make a difference".

that! Instead no longer consent to oblige in their petty little game where they make up the rules to suit only themselves. We each as human beings are Divinity. We've no need of any other human being our authority and no other human being is qualified to be that anyway. If you doubt that ask yourself if you would trust yourself to make the correct choices to assert authority in my life, for my best interests. If you cannot trust yourself, why trust anyone else doing the same for you?

I VOTE because it makes me feel big.
The results make me feel small..

 

[LimJaheyyy]

-If- I understand it correctly (a BIG if) the only thing you the consumer should see is the beginning of "age verification" which has unfortunately already proven problematic at some sites for a few people. Flavor shots (boosts) will soon disappear as will free juice samples that often accompanied purchases. Juice itself should continue flowing for the next two years for as long as the vendors remain in business. Prices should remain stable for the next year or so but substantial increases are on the horizon. Labeling might change to meet requirements but that isn't really a big deal for consumers. We could see increased scrutiny of overseas shipments depending on how ....-retentive the government wants to get. Juice manufacturers must begin complying with certain manufacturing requirements but you the consumer shouldn't realize any impact unless a favorite vendor is shut down for non-compliance but I really don't think we'll see that happen very often.

Supposedly, after August no new-to-the-market items can be "legally" sold without first obtaining FDA approval. The problem is the FDA itself doesn't know what is required for approval so it's going to be a learning curve for both them and the vendors/manufacturers, I don't expect to see any "new" products hit the market for an extended period of time. The possible exception to this will be products offered by major corporations, I'm sure they'll prosper in this legislative/regulatory minefield. Especially those who regularly lobby (bribe) influential members of congress, they'll have access to the FDA's express lane. The small to mid sized companies we all are familiar with in the vaping community will likely end up closing their doors -or- be bought out by large corporations over the next two years. Due to the cost and complexity involved with gaining FDA approval, small companies (mom & pops) simply won't survive.

For existing products, I believe vendors/manufacturers must submit inventory lists of their products and then have two years to file applications for approval of each inventoried item. Seeking approval is -very expensive- the FDA estimates the cost between $300K and $400K per application/item. For juice, each flavor is considered an item, each nic strength of that flavor is considered a "different" item and requires a separate application. This is why flavor shots will be discontinued, a juice with a flavor "boost" is considered a new item and must have FDA approval. -If- the FDA's cost estimates are accurate, for vendors/manufacturers like Ahlusion, The Plume Room, Nicoticket, Goodjuice, Charlie Nobel etc.. the cost of basic product applications alone could easily run over a hundred million dollars. This is why I don't expect many will survive but will instead close shop -or- be bought out before the deadline in 2018, only time will tell. At some point the price for retail juice will rise to cover the cost of FDA approval and compliance, I fully expect to see at least 25 - 50% increases and that doesn't include anticipated state "tobacco" taxes which, for many, could easily end up dwarfing that increase. Two years from now I suspect the average retail consumer will be spending close to double what they currently pay for juice assuming of course the juice they like is still on the market.

There is a possibility one of the pending lawsuits against the FDA might prevail and stop or at least mitigate this insanity (even if only temporarily) but I personally doubt it. The U.S. is -far- too corrupt to hope for or expect a different outcome.

You're first paragraph is what mt.baker already did. You can no longer buy diy supplies and they made their juice into some kind of "premium" pre steeped juice. You can only buy 30 mls from them now.

 

[Racehorse]

California regulations are mild compared to Pennsylvania , Indiana and Utah.

And Arkanasas. Another R state, and who passed the "no online eliquid sales" well over a year ago, ahead of all the other R states. There really is no arguing that Arkansas, PA, Indiana and Utah have thus far pass THE MOST draconion laws having to do with vaping.

However, I still agree with those who said it's not partisan. Because it's not. Both sides are doing it, have been doing it.

I said 2 years ago that "all this will be decided in the courts" and that is how it is indeed, going to pan out. Worry more about 8/8/2018. To be honest, I think much of this will be ironed out by then, included dates, etc.

Taxes, well I never thought there wouldn't be any, so I'm not the least bit surprised. When I was quitting smoking I owuld have paid any amount to quit, and judging by the "how much have you spent on vaping" topics that were popular even back in 2012 when I started, people were spending the equivalent of what it would cost me to buy an acre of land where I live, on fun devices and hobby stuff.

Without wanting to wax overly political, but feeling it needs said right now. This is the fault of all of us.

When we don't protect the rights of others, they come after ours eventually - and political affiliation won't matter in the least, because by then, we have signed away too many rights.

No, it isn't the fault of all of us.

I read the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I've also been to many other countries. I feel most all of my rights, comparatively, are intact. When I came back from those other places I was even more happy to call the USA home. My human rights are pretty much intact, I know I will not be thrown into a gulag w/out a trial or representation, etc. I know that if I work a company can't just keep my paycheck. I know my money in the bank is insured by teh FDIC. I know that when my community is wiped out in a tornado, as what happened here a few years ago, and houses taken down to the ground, whole neighborhoods wiped out, the red cross and national guard shows up to help, and FEMA is there to give you a roof over your head

I sure do get tired of the constant anti-US sentiments I see on here, all surrounding vaping. NOT being able to buy eliquid online here in AR is, and has been, quite frankly, the LEAST tragic thing I have seen compared to what I have seen in the rest of the world!! You wouldn't even be able to bring a lawsuit against the FDA if you lived in some of the places I've been. You would just be shot. Or left on the side of the road.

This is just another small issue that needs to be solved, in the courts, in congress, by the people and the system we have in place to address our interests and beliefs. Be thankful such a pathway exists.

most places...........it doesn't.